Nov. 20, 2020

#17 - Boston Celtics and NBA Draft Review

#17 - Boston Celtics and NBA Draft Review

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On this episode of MISSING THE POINT, we recap the NBA Draft, from the biggest moves made on and before draft night to the moves after, including Gordon Hayward opting out of his $34 million dollar deal with the Boston Celtics, and what moves can and should be made, to finally get this generation of Celtics to the NBA finals

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Transcript
Craig D'Alessandro:

On this episode of missing the point we recap the NBA Draft but the biggest moves made on it before draft night to the moves after including Gordon Hayward opting out of his $34 million deal with the Boston Celtics and what moves can and should be made to finally get this generation of Celtics to the NBA Finals but first This episode is being brought to you by box Oh crafts box Oh was an arts and crafts focus kids subscription box box Oh was apparently a company that combines creativity and convenience in one monthly package delivered right to your door. boxes from airbox box Oh holidays contains four separate art projects to get you and your family into the holiday spirit. Whether it's Halloween Hanukkah or Easter they've got you covered with holiday fun box Oh, we can't wait to see you create checkout box Oh crafts calm and exclusively to our listeners. enter the promo code MTP for 15% off your first order. That's b o x o crafts comm promo code and TP missing the point is like one hour weekly to our monthly podcast recapping the biggest stories in the world of sports with the New England flavour. The show notes and transcript of today's episode can be found in the description box below, as well as on our website. MTP show.com. If you're new to the show, consider subscribing. It's the easiest way to see when we publish new episodes. We are on iTunes, Spotify, Google and wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to rate us and leave review of any of our shows. We always appreciate your feedback. Also, be sure to follow us on all of our social medias. All of our links will be in the show notes. Check out our brand new website WWW dot MTP show calm that's MTP show.com. And now this is missing the point but it's all relative.

Michael Marcangelo:

Welcome to Episode 17 of the MTP podcast This is missing the point I am Michael Mark Angela joined alongside rayshawn you can the real BK Bob Kelly DK sizzle Dave Clark and today we are talking NBA Draft review. It is just the tip off of the of the NBA season of our NBA discussion. And, guys, I don't care how you are se last night had a chance to do something. They didn't do it. They didn't do a big trade, but they did get some pretty good prospects. So DK lead us off.

Dave Clarke:

Um, yeah, I mean, like I said on the Sunday show, I'm a little disappointed that we ended up drafting the draft picks now that doesn't necessarily mean these guys are gonna play for us. I think Naismith will but that kid we got from Oregon, I initially was out on the fact that we use that second pick, but the more I see of him The more I talked myself into and what's his name remind me of his name Ray.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Aaron Smith in pain.

Dave Clarke:

Yeah, yeah, so like that kid from Oregon first I was disappointed that he was white. But it looks like he's like the only functioning kind of white player left in the NBA that we got killed by Miami with which is like chase chase the ball push the pace handle well lead from the front and it looks like he's got those qualities like if he hits a ceiling like that's the problem obviously with you know, drafting players, they're all prospects he could play completely above a ceiling or and you know, his potential or, you know, he could just be another Romeo Langford like an annoying role playing guard coming off the off the bench not hitting his potential. But it's it as much as I was disappointed that we didn't package those picks and Gordon Hayward for a big man because I completely talked myself into that happening. It was a good draft. And it was a better draft, I think, than we've had in recent seasons. we addressed the problem on the bench with that guard. And knowing that Gordon Hayward wasn't gonna be on the team anymore. Naismith definitely addresses that position and it looks like he's a really good shooter. Apparently, he's the best shooter and he was the best shooter in college last year. So it with those kind of numbers and and if you can shoot off the screen as well as it looks like he can. I think it might even be an upgrade on Hayward considering his inconsistency. So a good draft is a good draft. I guess you can't really complain about it.

Michael Marcangelo:

Bobby, I know that pre pre draft you were really down on the fact because there were rumors going around about you know, James Harden packaging for him coming over to Boston, you are against it. You talked yourself into it. It didn't happen. How do you feel about Aaron Naismith doesn't number as a 14th. overall pick,

Rob Kelly:

I like to pick especially because we're losing Gordon Hayward. I mean, that's just a fact. At this point, he opted out so Gordon Hayward is gone. I like Naismith because a lot of people had him as not only a good shooter, but the best shooter in the draft. So I saw that from a couple different people. Dude got a long wingspan, so he's definitely what we need. So I liked Naismith. I'm very glad we didn't trade for harden, so I'll give them at least a B. Just The fact that James Harden is not coming to town. But I really wish we had done something because of my opinion in the NBA. Sure, we'll get to this later. But there's nothing more valuable to me than a draft pick that hasn't been taken yet, especially in the NBA. And as soon as you actually go ahead and take those draft picks, I really think you lose a lot of ability to move Gordon Hayward. And I think that's why he ended up opting out because like the options just weren't there for the Celtics anymore. As soon as you actually take those picks and don't make that move. It closes so many doors and so many trades that we could have had. So that's just that's just what annoys me about it. But I do like Naismith. Like I said best shooter in the draft, so you can't complain about that. I do wish we got more though. So like a B, B plus,

Michael Marcangelo:

maybe Sean, I've been I've been hearing for the better part of the last 36 hours that you're going to save it for the show. So let us have it dude. What did you think about this pick? Yeah, so

Rayshawn Buchanan:

I mean, all things considered, I don't think it was it was crazy. I felt like last year because of what happened was with Kyrie and and you know, Horford leaving and just kind of you know, Marcus Morris and those guys really just having a leaving a bad taste in people's mouths the hottest season ended and just a character thing last year I really felt they look to draft character guys right so Greg Williams Carson Edwards shamar waters Aaron willeford quiet my red one was not quiet but you know guys are going to be respectful guys are going to be team first oriented, um, but more potential right now really saying okay, we have a surefire pick because that was the case we would have got Brandon Clark and you know some other guys but needless to say, we'll just leave it at that right now for this for this year. I felt like not only danger after character, but they've drafted two competitors and they drafted some dogs that is going to be needed right because we talked about on a previous show. Your six four point guard aka Marcus smart can not be the only guy that brings that nasty it needs to be other guys in it right so and not saying these guys are gonna come in being you know being that but I think preach it even more so than nice man. Like, I watched some his tape last night and I wasn't weeks ago, but I kind of put them on a back burner guy. I think that we would like to get him I thought they were Dr. Tyrell Terry, maybe if he was there when I'm going to Dallas. But, uh, you know, he, I'm paying pressure. I love his demeanor. Like he just he can't you know, he's he just he just fights. It's just like, yo, like, I'm that guy. Like I remember I think Washington is one of their bigger rivals. And he had like a three with like, 8.5 seconds left. And he's just yelling at the crowd like, yo, like, this is this is my sit like this is this is my like this, this is my time and so I'm like, I'm gonna Oh, yeah, like I like I like having that because now that lets me know you're not afraid of the moment cuz that's just like, I'll tell her what to share for for my enemy. Right? Like, not afraid of the moment. I'm just going to gun it whatever happens happens. So that's that, um, as far as making a deal at the end of the day, yes, we want them to make a deal. We get that. It takes two to tango, y'all. It just does. It teams are not going to maybe three. Yeah, two or three right? But those teams are not going to take that bait on or even, you know, had that conversation or further those conversations, then that's just what it is. Now. Thankfully, they traded the 30th day now that a guy that Memphis drafted at 30 I said Damn, got another shooter doesn't invade from TCU can really shoot as well. So I'd been like, that's fine. Like I have two more shooters, three more shooters. And you know, you can get rid of Wanamaker. We're saying I'm doing today thankfully, I'm a still found a way to keep send me Oh, GLA Oh, God. I was I was just like, No, no, no, I don't know. Don't stop me. Now. I couldn't believe that they extended an offer Sam and I said what are you doing? So you trade for you? Thank God because He did nothing like there's nobody has done less in a year then visit for a semi ojeleye I don't know why he got brought back. Want to make her I'm glad he's gone. Hopefully, he could come in and take his minutes on but I'm fine with him re bringing on Sean waters. But it's insane to me, man that I said that that guy is still here. But like, so hopefully, he has a plan. But I want to say this to Bob because Bobby said you know, he's gone. It was out of here. Um, that's not for certain. And I want fans that listen to this. Understand he's

Unknown:

an unrestricted free agent, right?

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yes, he is. But it's not at the realm of possibility that he still doesn't sign a trade that he and guess what he in some slight chance whether it's 510 15% he could still sign here and maybe do we want to do al Horford last year where he signed for a little bit less now granted? He knew he wasn't gonna get 34 out there now Is there a team then be like like we had the mystery team last year who ended up being Philadelphia give him 100 910 million who knows if he does Hey, by all means. Wipe our hands

Dave Clarke:

if someone's if someone wants to do some stupid like that. That's 100% white but

Rayshawn Buchanan:

it's not I don't I don't think that's the case though. I don't think that's the case. I look up to

Rob Kelly:

three teams should pursuing it. It's Atlanta. The net In the Hornets, if there's three teams out there that are going to give Gordon Hayward over 100 billion dollars, those are the three so

Rayshawn Buchanan:

the only the only team I don't see that you said that, I think have a legit chance of maybe landing him actually a starlet. Because in 2014, he had a chance to sign a four year deal for such a three mil. But then you taught master. Yeah, you taught master. Right. And then in 2017, when he was coming to us, he still spoke with Charlotte. He spoke with um, he spoke with Miami's what were some other scenes and then, you know,

Dave Clarke:

eventually Michael Jordan's not a very good GM, so I can picture him, sir was in Hayward, right?

Rob Kelly:

He said Terry rozier for $20 million a year, so why not? And he drafted one of the ball brothers. So

Unknown:

that was a very smart either.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yeah, I mean, that remains to be seen, but I feel like King on click, clearly he likes to hear it as a player clearly because that's why he keeps you know, looking at him, but, um, we'll see. So I think that's on the team that could do that. But it's not I want to make clear is not out there own possibilities, that he finds his way back into something uniform. Or he says, You know what, I want to go here, can you can you do a sign and trade and just go from there, you just never know.

Michael Marcangelo:

Well, I also want to take this time to, you know, just to just to make sure everyone out there knows, you know, I love hosting because I get to be a deck. So here's here's what I'm gonna do on the Sunday show that you can listen to your new handling for in the show notes. I believe. dk sizzle Dave Clark says if the Celtics pick at 14 you and I all of us should be out on this season. Are you?

Dave Clarke:

Yeah, I don't think we're gonna win. Like I don't think we're gonna win a championship with with Naismith or you know, the rookie coming in to try and fill that hole. I think like it's been very frustrating watching the Celtics be one potentially wanted to but really one piece away from winning a championship and like blowing an opportunity like last season is going to really hurt our momentum. Man. You know, it's like, Yeah, okay. You can believe in Jason Tatum and Jalen brown and like Bobby, you can you definitely believe in Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown, but those guys are young. And like, they might stop believing in themselves. If they keep coming up short in the Eastern Conference Finals, like those. Those guys are like on Twitter, too. They see everybody being like, uh, these guys are also RANS. They're not doing this. They're not doing that. It's a lot harder to equate your potential when you're living it. You know what I mean? Like Jason Tatum is basically gone up at the rate that we expected him to Jalen Brown has gone up a little bit more than at the rate that we expected him to. But then the Celtics aren't really doing them any favors. Like, look, I love Danny Ainge. And like I love when he fleeces, other teams and stuff, and it's it's fun, but like now we're in a position where like, nobody wants to deal with us. And Boston's not. And you know, I know this is a tough to swallow pill for a lot of Boston sports fans. But Boston's not a very desirable market in basketball, like Not a lot of people want to come to Boston just because it's Boston, like, the reason LeBron James is playing in Los Angeles, he might tell you, it's because LA Lakers Kobe like legacy, it's because he had a house in Los Angeles, and his office was in Los Angeles and his kids were going to like a fancy private school in Los Angeles, like, LA is, is the place to be. So that's why, you know, it's easy to get people to play for the Lakers. I mean, they can even get people to play for the clippers. And that organization is a joke, especially comparatively to the Celtics. So when you already have that, and then you have a situation where you have you, you've built as much as you can basically build from young players. We've had bad drafts overall, in the past 10 years, like yes, there's been good draft picks, but that's when we've had high draft picks like Tatum and brown. Right, Marcus smart, but like, I don't know if anyone remembers fab Melo, like, you know, not disrespecting his his his name. I know the guy's dead but he he's not. He wasn't good. You know what I mean? Like the higher the all the other higher draft picks and first round draft picks we made weren't good. So Fine. You we built this young core you have to bring in veterans to to propel them to where they need to be. At what point do we start saying, okay, Jason Tatum and Jalen brown can't do it by themselves. Like Yes, I agree with with Bobby's always point of, they're still so young. They're still so young. It's like, right, but they're not ever going to get to a point where they can win without a big man. It's just never going to happen. Like if we just if we get dominant, like, okay, for example, like the heat it was, I didn't expect this to lose the heat because I remember saying on the show that we had guards that were as fast as their guards, and we could bring guys off the bench to like do stuff against their guards. I thought Brad Wanamaker was going to come out and play like veteran defensive basketball against Tyler here on Gordon drug drug. Ah, but that just didn't happen. So we get Payton Pritchard, he comes in like, if we had someone like I think he might be last last season. I think we get past the heat, you know. So yes, I agree with you rates and upgraded that at that bench position. But these little incremental changes in basketball, like, if you're watching the New England Patriots, it's great to sign like a really good, like third defensive back and like he can really fill a hole, basketballs about your best three players. It's always going to be About your best three players, you can change little incremental things and like help you help yourself to win. But most of the time, if they're big three is better than your big three, or their big four is better than your big three, or whatever it is, they're going to beat you. The best player in the series gives that franchise a huge, it gives that team a huge advantage. So we don't have a big three right now, if you look at how kemba Walker played in last year's playoffs, like and he's a guard and you know my feelings on guards and winning championships. The The fact is, we need an end, the third piece of the big three and it needs to be a big man. And if we can't do that, we're not going to win. Am I still gonna watch every to answer your question in a long form way, Mike? Yes, I am out on this team winning a championship we're not gonna win a championship with what we have right now. We're just not like unless some sort of freak occurrence happens. And Jason Tatum decides that he's like the second coming of Kobe Bryant next season, and he starts playing absolutely out of his mind. And even then, we still have to go through Yanis and an improved Bucs team, we still have to go through the Lakers who by the way, I'm borderline happy we didn't see in the finals last year, because that would have been embarrassing. And we you know, we still have to go through Bama bio healthy again next year, which we now realize is like a thing we need to build for, like, Yes. Are the 76 out of the way totally like, are they going to be anything? No. But what about Brooklyn? You know what I mean? everyone around us is getting better. And we're no one will deal with us because of Danny. So yeah, I'm out on this rebuild. For sure. I'm out on this team, for sure. Because we can't win with this personnel we have right here. I'm sorry if that sounds down. And I'm usually the ultimate Celtics optimist, but like, I'm just I'm just speaking truth to it. You know,

Rob Kelly:

the only thing is like, it's just like, I can't, I can't fathom giving up on these two right now just be I get that we know they haven't done it these past two years. But like these guys, if you think back to the best players in the NBA right now, these guys are a shell of what they're to cut. what's to come? You know what I mean? These guys are 2223 years old. And I know I keep chirping that same thing over and over again. But I don't think that we can say that they can't do it with because they don't have a big guys. They've never ever had a big man. You know what I mean? Like

Dave Clarke:

one second? Because like, you're we're talking like they're gonna stay. Like what? Like, what happens if Jason Tatum gets to the end of this contract that he's on, and he just decides that he needs to go somewhere else. You know what I mean? Like, again, it's not it's not a this is a market that has to be taken advantage of quickly, you have to strike while the iron is hot in Boston. That's why we were able to win a way to do away to 2000 and say, 12, we should have had three we always say, but at least we struck while the iron was hot. We did it all on one contract for all those guys. You know what I mean, for the most part, so you know what I mean? It's like, Jason Tatum might decide that he wants to be Kobe Bryant going to the Lakers, once the brown leaves like you just have to, you have to get it going. Now, I don't think you can bank on Jason Tatum at 27. Because he might be playing somewhere else.

Rob Kelly:

That's worse. I can't disagree with that. And I also don't disagree with the fact that Danny is kind of fucking us over right now when it comes to this team. That part I won't disagree with the only thing I just can't get over is the bringing in so and it gets back to the James Harden point is before is bringing in someone that is going to change the chemistry of the whole team. You know what I mean? Like, I just love Jason Tatum and Jalen brown the way they play basketball. And I really feel like if, if we had a legitimate big man in that Miami series, it's a whole different series because guess what? Bam Adebayo doesn't make that block because he's not feeling comfortable. He's not feeling strong, because there's someone download chirping at him banging him, he is not going to be able to make that block the way he does. If there's someone down there, just just giving it to him the entire fourth quarter, he's not going to have that energy. So just feel like you bring someone in here like that it changes everything. And we are a legitimate championship threat. Are we going to be able to do that at this point? I'm not sure. But I'm just not ready to give up on this core until I see a full basketball team around them. You know what I mean? Like until we get that big man, we actually see what they can do. Daniel tights is not the answer. And that's who we had going against BAM out of bio in the fourth quarter and the Eastern Conference Finals. Like that's a fucking joke. You know what I mean? Like, you can't, you can't say that they don't have it when that's what you're giving them. You know what I mean? Like we always say, this guy can't do it. You

Michael Marcangelo:

understand? Bobby with the team as it was currently constituted. You said that this team had championship DNA. All this team does is have Eastern Conference Championship DNA. So are you still to believe that that you know just because of this core that they can still win? Because based on what we've seen, and I'll let you I'll let you answer this to that. There will always be an obstacle that they cannot overcome. And in the Miami series, It was talent hero having an amazing series, but it was also them at a value. And they don't have an answer for that. So if this is it if What if you know what if they're coaching up Robert Williams, what if they think it's going to be taco time? Finally, if either those two things happen or don't happen, I mean, if they do happen, they can, they can go further. Like, let's say Robin Williams develops, and he doesn't just jump in out of his shoes every time someone saw an outtake. But you've always been the person that says championship DNA. Now you sound like you're down on them, that they can only win if they're being given, you know, based on the team that they're given. So which which is it, are they championship level contenders or and, and winners, are they not?

Rob Kelly:

I think that those two do have the championship cowbirds they can be the best two players on a championship team. And I just think that they don't they haven't reached that level of development yet. Can they do it without that center at this point now? And I do agree with you on that. They cannot do it without that center at this point. They can't

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing though. But see to me at 14 that granite nice Smith to me because he because he's a shooter. They that was a need, right. And it's funny because Austin Ames came on I think, you know, BST, which is our bosses for tonight. I was like, oh, like you know, you don't you don't draft for Nika need is a bad evaluator. Well clearly you drive the funny because when you draft it, you need it so you needed a shooter and he says you need to shoot it and preach it but what unless it what it let me know is that they valued someone next shoot over someone that could protect that room, right? Because at 14 I'm gonna tell you who was still on the board then the day they could have brought on. So precious I show who got drafted by the by by miami heat, who we talked about with Joe sway we talked about him with so he falls to six more spots to Miami. Daniel true who's in who's from Minnesota, guy drafted by the Knicks, who had the, you know, we're gonna talk about who wanted to drive, New York had a really good draft on Thursday night, I mean, on Wednesday night had a really good draft. So, um, I just think that they may not look at the big man physician, like how we look at his fans because of people that grew up in the 90s and grew up in him in the 2000s. You know, we saw a shackle when we saw Alonzo Mourning, we saw a passion here and you know, he didn't win a championship, but he got to the finals. Um, you know, we saw those guys dominated when so now it's still acid on Milan, okay, like, you got to have a guy like that to win. But to be honest, we maybe give us some luggage Avila McGee or someone like like a Dwight Howard ask now what granting date that day now, one, but give us something like that you don't need someone to come in and get 20 and 10. And I think we're hooked. We're hooked on that. And I understand that because of what we've seen in the past some dominant big men but, um, if we can even get what he gave us when he got here on nothingness testing standpoint, but even just from like a 17 to nine, um, you know, someone like, even when Paul gets all used to do to in LA like that, that's what you need, or maybe even a little less than that. But I just think today, they look at their current situation is that you know, what, Bradley was mostly paid positions, basketball, he talks about that all the time. And I just think that they don't look at the center position as something that they have to focus on. That was the case, crush that shoe would be a boss of Celtic and not push it or Omni Smith. It just wouldn't happen. Or maybe they like jaylon Smith from Maryland, but jaylon Smith went higher than I thought he would have attend to Phoenix. So um, yeah, so that's, that's, that's that's what happens. So this is it.

Rob Kelly:

I do think that Naismith is something that that's a that's a role and a player type that they've been trying to fill. Since pretty much last stretch, they wanted herro. They wanted herro. In Boston, he was their guy. And I've said that so many times, do you guys that that's why Harrow hurts so much in that Eastern Conference Finals, because it was the guy that wanted. So the fact that they were able to fill that need, because I do think that he is that type of player in the Smith's that he can fill that role. So I do like that's why I do like that pick a lot is because it is a role that they were trying to fill, and obviously is something that we absolutely need, because what was missing last year in the finals is another piece.

Michael Marcangelo:

So what So, Dave, what's your biggest takeaway from from the Celtics draft? I mean, what you said it, you've talked to us a little bit that it was a good one, but like, how do you really feel moving forward about the weather they drafted?

Dave Clarke:

I think that I think it's tough, you know, like, it's like, the problems that we had in in the playoffs last season are still there. They haven't gone anywhere. Um, is it Naismith or Naismith because I want to be saying right yet.

Rob Kelly:

I keep wanting to say Naismith just because of the Hall of Fame, whatever.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

That's fine. we're projecting and manifesting that he's gonna be a Hall of Famer.

Dave Clarke:

I want to get his name right. Cuz he's obviously gonna be the best player in the NBA in five years. But listen. So the thing is, is that, like, I don't know how to play 3d chess like Danny Ainge, like, maybe he knows something I don't know about the big position. You know what I mean? Maybe he knows something I don't know about the five spot. Like, maybe he thinks that we could have lived with BAM autobio if we had an answer for Tyler here, like, maybe he thinks that if maybe he thinks it's a freak occurrence that Jalen brown and Jason Tatum missed as many shots as they did in those in those two series, you know what I mean? Because it kind of is the way that we draft it, I think, actually does answer one big question which is how do we get Marcus smart firm to stop shooting the ball so much? Like the amount of there's a finite amount of shots to go around on a basketball team? And the thing the thing everyone got mad about Marcus Marcus smart about is that he was like taking kind of dumb shots. But I think that there was some carryover from previous seasons because he might have been shooting too much and they might have not been going in but I think he was taking the shots he was told to take and i think that i think that he being the first guard off the bench, or starting depending on like what was happening needed needs to take those shots like that that position has to be scoring 12 to 15 points a game you know what I mean? So if we have nice Smith to come in now and take that scoring load off Marcus smart just say listen, Marcus, you can take wide open threes, okay? No matter why you can take wide open threes because like anyone that shoots the percentage that market smart shoots with the confidence that market smart shoots with and the clutch factor the market smart shoots, which should be allowed to take open threes, that's fine. What we can stop from happening now is stopping on a diamond on the three point line in transition and looking for Tatum or Nathan, Arnie Smith. So yes, like it's a good draft and I and I see it being good going forward, but I'm just really worried that we're going to lose by getting bullied again. And like, if we're going to lose, that's one thing. You know what I mean? Like, it's, it's fine to lose, it's okay. You know, like I've seen them lose in the playoffs. And it's a very like other fan base thing to be like, Oh, you always losing the Eastern Conference Finals. It's like, Okay, cool. Like Charlotte Hornets fans, like Conference Finals isn't in your vocabulary. So like, Don't even talk to me. So like, there's levels to this like, yes, it we're mad about having like a very good basketball team at this point. But I don't want to keep plateauing in that way. So if if we think if we've decided through this conversation that Danny has shifted the plateau and climbed us on to the next rock by solving every problem, except the big man problem as of right now, then, I don't think we could have done much better. You know, I,

Michael Marcangelo:

that I want to ask you, because you mentioned it and in what you just said, and you said that you don't have to play 3d chess like Danny Ainge, are we sure that he knows how to play that game, too?

Dave Clarke:

I yes. Well, the thing is, is that I do think he's still like a top three GM, and or to maybe top five. But and here's the thing is that Danny's never really been like that good at drafting. Like, he's a good drafter. And he's really good at like moving around the board. And I think a lot of people were like, maybe expecting him to move around the port. But like, actually, that hasn't happened in a while. You know, it's been a few years since we since we've like traded picks or package picks, like, again, I might be because people won't deal with him. But he's still a very good GM. And he still sees things that we don't see. Like, it would be a ridiculous take, right? And it says for anyone to sit here right now and say like, it's time for Danny Ainge to move on. Like he that's absolutely absurd. Because of all the reasons Bobby says like, this team hasn't. You have to let a GM build his team and then see if that team fails or succeeds? And if he does, go ahead, right,

Rayshawn Buchanan:

so I have to interject only because because you say you said about Jalen brown and Jason Tatum. How long are we going to say they're young?

Unknown:

That's what I'm saying though.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Like, how long do you let Danny build them? Because I mean, damn, he's been here for 17 years. One championship two finals appearance. That's

Dave Clarke:

my worry. That's my worry. I'm worried that he's buying himself time. I'm worried I'm worried that he's buying himself time but

Rayshawn Buchanan:

at some point, we have to say what and then you see the latest shooting but

Dave Clarke:

that's not the point. Right? We're not at that point right now.

Rob Kelly:

This Core i get that to Kyrie the Kyrie thing happened and honestly, I throat when it comes to this, I throw when it comes to Tatum and browns development, the Kyrie year, in between the Eastern Conference Finals appearance was Oberon. And last year is thrown out to me. You know what I mean? I don't count that against them whatsoever. Because guess what, when Kyrie actually left? They actually when he didn't play, they actually played really well. And that's when Jalen brown got up to got up to speed. So like, I don't count that against them and I never will. So that's why I'm just like, I don't think that we're giving them the time that they actually deserve. You know what I mean? That's where that's where my head is at is like these guys. 2322 years old, like think about how much more mature you were at 2526

Dave Clarke:

I don't think that that's raised question I think like how old are they in basketball years because like they've been to the playoffs a lot of times

Rayshawn Buchanan:

be here for for Tatum and this is a be year five for Jalen Brown. But

Dave Clarke:

by then by the time you're five rolled around, I'm not saying now don't don't jump all over me here. Just bear with me on this point. But by the time your five rolled around for LeBron James, it was is he ever gonna get it done? That was the narrative. Now of course, I'm not saying that Jason Tatum is LeBron James not saying that but five years was I don't think he's ever going to do it. And then the rebuttal was well it took Jordan six and it was like all these arguments over and over again and about about whether or not LeBron James was that guy now where we are now we know that he is so maybe it was unfair to start leveling that criticism at him five years in, but it it's not unheard of to start questioning people four or five years into the career is that their ceiling? You know what I mean? Like Jason like LeBron James, we all remember that narrative right? Just as a quick aside, he got to the finals against the Mavericks what happened he got destroyed in the post that that team got destroyed in the post by oh my god by dirt Nowitzki and the and and dirt and woods. They had no answer to them. So what are the brawn do he goes okay, I'm this size so I can go learn how to take a turn around jump shot, defend in the post. He does that in the summer he comes back they want a championship right? Is there things that Jason

Michael Marcangelo:

he went to? He went to Miami?

Rayshawn Buchanan:

No But no, no bad. That's it.

Dave Clarke:

He lost his first year in Miami because Dirk because they had no answer for Dirk Nowitzki because Chris Bosh was soft. So the great player though no, no sleight against him.

Rob Kelly:

Don't forget about that championship. I feel like

Dave Clarke:

I do. Totally because it was kind of like a foregone conclusion where it was kind of like Oh, great. We're so glad the Mavericks finally won one and then it was like Haha, the brawn, but then they went on to win so it doesn't matter. But anyway, LeBron attitudes game and came back and like, you know, he won, he won a bunch of championships. So is Jason Tatum that player can it can Jason Tatum, like I think let me sum it up. When when Rachel asked me the question, how long are we going to say that they're young For how long? Is Tatum going to ride that? How long is he going to ride that narrative? Because he doesn't act like the guy? To me, for me, at least he I think he wants to be on a committee based team. I don't think he wants to be like that, dude, I don't think he wants to be the leader. Because I think he's an opportunities to, like, prove that he is. And I think in his head somewhere because of like the narrative. He's kind of going. I'm still young, you know, like, he doesn't he's not on that. He doesn't have that same pressure that like a superstar LeBron might have you know, so he's kind of buying into his own narrative.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Right. So I so that's, that's a valid point. So, um, because remember when Sam came out in 2017, I feel like the comparisons to Paul pears came out right away. Right. So Draper was saying their scalabrini was saying it. Parker was talking about it just looking at you know, national score. He's someone that's going to get 25 years league and they were right. You know, he averaged 2375. This year, get it? So he's right at that customers getting there. I'm at Legion. So the point I'm going to make, this really is Pierson Walker. Tatum. Miss Pierce. Jalen browns, dancehall Walker now from a cuz Jayla Brown is vocal. Now he comes off quiet, you know, on The Club. But Jalen Brown is very vocal. And he's a leader. he's a he's definitely he's definitely the facto leader of that team. Right. So I think, you know, I think Tatum will be what peers was eventually when peers kind of became more vocal and say, Hey, this is my team, my city. I hope, I hope it doesn't take him to winning your chance like Paul did, but you know, you know

Dave Clarke:

what, but what happened with Paul Pierce, we have to remember is that kg and realen came in and said to him, you're the leader. They decided that not him.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Right? So I mean, so I guess maybe now you know, do you have to make a trade with somebody net command? No, say hey, Tatum you think you're the guy has been here you're the guy is gonna bring us a big fight for what Danny is all right. I feel like you know, obviously he's been there 17 years now and you know, he's had some pics doesn't work sometimes that hasn't worked. Obviously, that's just an issue of the game but only show the DS I should say. I still feel like he's chasing that 2004 draft every year. So just for the just for the listeners that don't remember or wasn't around. So as before, so in that year, they had three first round picks. It was Tony Tony Allen from Oklahoma State. On our Jefferson from where you hear my night school forgive a high school boy came out of Mississippi High School, and the lot say it was to was part of a phenomenal backcourt with angels with Jimmy Nelson. So stay tuned for that color. So that's a future plug. Um, so yeah, like Joe, they had a really good draft that year. And when people forget, that draft really brought us the championship But no, wait. It's without thought without those pieces being there. Tony Allen had been a great defender. You know, don't say Wes had a decent career over in Seattle than when he got to Cleveland or whatever. I'm in Dallas as well before he retired, um, that that Oh, for a draft one is the championship, right? And then you know, next year you know, you give Ryan goes out of Providence College, you get, you know, so your name casual names out there, right? Um, so a lot of those pieces they had there, and there's oh four or five and oh, six your Rondo game drafted at 21 out of out of Kentucky back in those six that was traded for Phoenix

Dave Clarke:

got a little lucky there too. Nobody thought I know.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Right, right. But, but I'm saying like those, those first three or four drafts that he had really set up the championship because those are the pieces that we had in order to get the championship. So now maybe what I'm thinking is now is just dawned on me. Maybe that's how he sees grant Williams, Carson Edwards eventually Romeo Langford nice Smith and, and now again, crush it, or in shamal waters and taco fall, maybe he sees this guy, look, we have to develop these guys, as we develop them, we can flip that into a guy, that's really that's really star ready, is going to put Tatum and brown, and whoever else is there over the hump. And then you know, we get better at him like we've been longing for since 2008. So maybe that maybe that's what happens.

Michael Marcangelo:

It It sounds like that. There's like this overarching theme where we all think that if a championship does not come within the next, let's say two or three years that Tatum might do what LeBron did from Cleveland and go elsewhere to find one,

Dave Clarke:

right if the narrative though different narrative in different situations.

Craig D'Alessandro:

Yeah, LeBron was,

Michael Marcangelo:

LeBron was the only guy in Cleveland and he would have been the reason why they won. They wouldn't build around him. I get it. But how I guess how many years do we have

Rob Kelly:

was it? It's funny that I never even saw the Tatum, you guys saying that Tatum's not that guy. And he doesn't take that lead like until you guys said that? It honestly I've never really even thought about that. But honestly, you're kind of like I'm not turning on Tatum at all. But that is something that I would like to see from him. Next year. I feel like this year is a big year for Jason Tatum is coming out of last year. We're

Dave Clarke:

gonna say that though, like, but I'm just saying like, the thing is, is that like when we were all talking like we were all basically yelling at each other throughout the entire NBA playoffs, the last NBA playoffs, and this this is what emerged to me like I love Jason Tatum. I love having Jason Tatum I loved post all star break Jason Tatum and like how much of it level he went up and like it was awesome to see him do that night. Basically what I think we should do now I don't have a GM job and I'm just on a podcast with with the knuckleheads but like my what I would do honestly is before his potential drops before his value drops moving trade him and like the thing and be and what like while he still has while he still has some like some some some movement in his contract while it's still basically like a very, very, very healthy contract for any team to take on. Go and train him because like the things you could get for him right now, like are so crazy. Now, does that mean that we won't eventually regret that like, Jason Tatum eventually becomes the Jason Tatum that we know he's probably going to and then like he wins a couple championships and we're mad. Sure, but it doesn't mean he would have stuck around Anyways, what I keep saying and like, if you want to build a team, build a team around a leader. Every time you've played this game with your friends, every time you've gone Okay, who do you start? Who do you build a team around basketball wise? Who do you start with? Nobody ever says LeBron first. Everyone always says Michael or Kobe. Why? Because they're in that caliber of talent. Yes. But they're their dogs like they're their leaders. Like they have that killer instinct. That's what now did the brawn develop that a little bit more like later in life? Totally. But like Kobe Bryant in another life could have been a professional assassin. So like, there's no, you know, like, it's for me, it's a little bit about mentality and I'm not sure. Like I know for a fact that Jalen Brown has a better mentality if the mentality you can build a team around leadership wise, and I'm not sure Tatum is that much better than him talent wise, I'm really not. And like, also, it'd be kind of nice. And this is a small aside like not really, to my larger point, it'd be kind of nice to not have your best player just bitch to the rest instead of get back on defense every 10 seconds. And that's on Brad Stevens a little bit too. Like, I'm a little concerned about Brad at this point, too. Because like there's there's now this kind of emerging narrative that he can't really control or coach or whatever word you want to use superstars. And like, That's scary to me, you know.

Rob Kelly:

So I do want to go back to one thing that I think is definitely a good point you guys made a little bit ago, and that is the fact that when kg and Ray Allen came into this town, they were not coming in thinking that they were the leaders, they knew this was Paul Pierce's team, and that this was Paul Pierce's team to leave and that was the number one reason that I don't want a headcase in here like James Harden or like a Kyrie, if we're gonna bring a star in here that's that's the piece of the puzzle is like you guys say we needed a big three. The Big Three member that comes in here needs to be someone that knows that this is Tatum and browns team because I That's what brings us to that next level.

Dave Clarke:

That's the issue though. It can't be Tatum and browns team,

Rob Kelly:

but it is it has

Unknown:

to be one of the other.

Rob Kelly:

But I don't know if it does because that's they went when they made that Eastern Conference final run though it was both of them and they both got the credit for it. And they both loved it. I don't think it needs to be one or the other. I really don't.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Right. So okay, so, to that point, Bobby. He's here. But he's not he's not healthy. As kemba Walker kemba Walker came in and say kemba came in and said, hey, these young guys have to lead us. I'm here to help him be that guy. But can't Kimbo say look, Tim when he when he played with the USC team last year, he said hey, you know, these these guys are the future I'm here to help nourish these guys and get them further. Um, he was the perfect guy to follow Kyrie Irving perfect guy for every aspect of the world. Like, you know, as he as he carried light shirt, but from a from a leadership standpoint, from a character standpoint. It wasn't good. He has some games this year where it was like, oh, okay, like, if he's on this team is very good and that okay,

Dave Clarke:

but in basketball, your leader needs to be your best player. He needs to be your best

Rayshawn Buchanan:

times this year. He was

Dave Clarke:

okay but he wasn't when it counted. And and you can't wait you can't win a championship with a guard is your best player either. So like that's all well and good, Kyrie kemba Walker can be the second best, said the second best leader on the team. But unless one of I'm 100% sure that unless one of Tatum or brown becomes the emotional leader on the team. The only exception I've ever seen is is Draymond Green. And that was such a weirdly unique situation because he was more of a lightning rod than a leader he just sort of took all the pressure on his back and like was by far like not even close to the best player in that team. But he let he let clay and and Steph do the do their thing but and and the Golden State Warriors are the exception to every rule that I bring up on these shows. Because like, yes, you want with your best player being a guard, except for the current year and then you know, leadership, drama and all that stuff. But we're going like classic basketball rules. I did you not cringe a little bit like a little bit like you have liked it, but you have cringed when like kemba was going around tapping everybody's chest going like check your heart. Check your heart. It's like no, don't check your heart smash this team check your heart when you get to the finals. And you have to play a team that's actually decent. don't check your heart when you're like down when you shouldn't be. You know, that's not the leader that I want, especially on a Celtics team. It's not check your heart. It's like Hey, guys Wake the fuck up. Okay, because like we should be ahead right now in this series. And there was none of that. That's like, so

Rayshawn Buchanan:

that's mark, you're smart. That's that's exactly.

Dave Clarke:

But I wouldn't want to lose him either. I wouldn't want to lose Marcus either. But I'll tell you something. If we you know, we were talking about James Harden, I would trade the entire I would trade the TD Garden for James Harden tomorrow. So like I didn't, you know, whatever. Like you can say like, Oh, I don't want a headcase to come in here. Like it doesn't matter. Like if he scores the one of those pieces, then you're good.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

We try to tell Bobby 3032 points is hard. That's a

Rob Kelly:

nightmare. You're just opening up.

Dave Clarke:

Yeah. I tried to get the state of Massachusetts. I tried to get the state of Massachusetts to offer in Western Mass to to New York for Jeter ones. But did we

Rob Kelly:

didn't see I would have done that. I would have done that and hard. So you can have the Berkshire skims shijo. Absolutely. Take the Berkshires. Springfield on Springfield on?

Michael Marcangelo:

What I noticed this year, especially in that heat series, right is that they had the lead in the second half, mostly in either the third or fourth quarter of every game that they lost. If you have a kg or you have someone that is or a Paul Pierce, right, that is the actual leader. Does that do they let that happen? No. I say no. I say that. The reason why you see you see it happen now is because there is this kind of this is a jailings team, is it Jason's team? And I think what we've what we realized is Jalen brown off the court, he's intelligent. He's He's very vocal, but for some reason on the court in the locker, it feels like he defers to Tatum. So either this year, Jalen Brown, I don't

Dave Clarke:

know that over I don't know about brown thinks he's just as good as Jason Tatum

Craig D'Alessandro:

and trying to keep you for a leadership role.

Rob Kelly:

I think. Yeah, I agree. I think when he's on the court, brown definitely differs. I do think that

Michael Marcangelo:

yeah. So so what we do is so yeah, this year he's he's, you know, stands up and they can actually get to that next level, or does Jason Tatum I guess for me, as it's currently constituted based on the draft that we saw, you know, last night, or you know, I'm sorry, Wednesday. This is this is put up or shut up time for both of them. Either one of those two has to say this is now my team. You are You are number two like you or Scotty is simple.

Dave Clarke:

It's really simple. If we want to figure out who's gonna do it, who's like, who was the guy we all saw who was the guy who takes who had the ball in his hands when the game is on the line in the player. Last year it was Jason Tatum and let me tell you some it was pathetic what he did with the bar most of the time like really pathetic like that late clock bullshit ISO that like he should be good at but he's just not that we just and that's another thing that annoyed me about Brad in that playoffs

Rayshawn Buchanan:

was saying that in February though we want to say that and that's that's what gets me hot about that nod like when he when he found out he was an all star and he took that jump how you think he was getting that 36 point game against Portland the 41 point game doesn't mean no no no no but what I'm saying I'm speaking to the point about

Rob Kelly:

James Harden argument it's the same shit it's the same no but

Rayshawn Buchanan:

yeah but yeah but what when when defenses get more I guess you get some sophisticated

Dave Clarke:

playing defense in the play

Rayshawn Buchanan:

force on the players but um listen Jason said of his score whatever he wants to I let's let's kill that narrative so to say otherwise, if you're saying otherwise, you're I think he

Dave Clarke:

can create a shot when everyone's too I think that's his biggest upside. I don't think he can score whenever he wants to. If he can score whenever he wants to. He would have gotten in the finals last season.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Right But think about this. We cut we harp on the play. And that same one that same game one where he shoots a 30 footer What are you doing that and and overtime? He does we wonder what we want him to do? He drives to the hole. She gets punched by BAM autobio so he you you can't you can't win either way. So it's like okay, you shoot. Who cares about that shot? You shoot that shot? Fine, whatever. If it goes in, oh my God, what a jump shot. JT has you know, has the biggest balls in San Francisco who whatever. But he drives to the hoop. He gets blocked. He's out there. Mrs. Li did there's no in between. So yeah, okay, fine. It's a lesson learned. But I'm telling you, you cannot you cannot teach how you can't use that skill when you were six, nine. And you have that type of hand because his handle has gotten better. Yes, it has. It was not where it needs to be yet, but it's gotten better. And that's that's sidestep, like, like James Harden is on Gardasil. So the more the more he does it, the better he'll become and I promise you, you'll see him become a 2627 point score, if not next year, at least at least in another another year or two. It's coming. Hey, man,

Dave Clarke:

Kobe Bryan doesn't have any of those Bama bio type blocks on his highlight reel though. So I'm saying one

Rob Kelly:

thing I think we're all forgetting about this team too is the Kamba that we hadn't used the conference finals was not the camera that we had that before that and in that East in the in the series against Hootie hits like a money shot. Who do we play before the before the throttle right in the Toronto series ever team board? Yeah, I blacked that whole air out already. But so remember, who was the guy when it came down to that last shot? And there was no doubt in any of our minds that can be

Dave Clarke:

better than Toronto, which is what I was trying to tell you the entire place

Rob Kelly:

but I'm just saying Kimba was was healthy at that point because he had sat out those games his knee was feeling okay. And when it isn't down weird, too scary. It is weird. Yes. his knee knee injuries.

Dave Clarke:

He never like a weird injury that they're not telling you enough about you know, it is true, but it was his shot.

Rob Kelly:

You know what I mean? When it came down to it? How

Unknown:

can we back lunch?

Rob Kelly:

Exactly. So so that's like me like I think that yes, we're hitting on Tatum and he still doesn't get the ball at the end of the game though Tatum does when he has Campbell when he has that guy to take that last shot. Like I was just saying when he have that third guy like you said you need a big three I agree. But we're not seeing the full big three and I think that that's something that we forgot about at the end of last year is that's not putting yourself in some stuff right now but that's not the Celtics that we that were did team that was supposed to be you know what I mean? What we're talking about was blowing up with students. Like it's a lot of just blowing up a huge set. Let's blow you specifically said less bloat.

Michael Marcangelo:

You just said Trey Tatum say

Dave Clarke:

those were you Jay said Trey Tatum that's not blowing it up. That's

Rob Kelly:

not bloated up.

Dave Clarke:

I mean, it's one guy I The reason why I think we can trade Tatum is because we have Jalen Brown. I think we have to have the same guy, honestly.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yeah. I mean, I'm not doing that right now. Anyways, I granted I think of another year or two has like this one contract.

Rob Kelly:

Track year talk.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

No, but no contract. You know, he's up. He's up for the Mac side. Jalen Brown was last year. And he's gone. He's most likely going to sign that there's gonna be like, it's gonna be what Devin Booker got. He got that five year. There's like 158 so he signed that. So um, this duel is going to be together. So let's get that out of our heads. They're not trading gentlemen. Jason. So let's let's kill that narrative

Dave Clarke:

to 24 hours later.

Unknown:

Right. Right.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Done and done in our sleep.

Rob Kelly:

That's that's that's the narrative daddy. I'll never get over. I'm sorry. Right. But how how much how much it would give to Danny Ainge really is you know it's every fucking year is the same goddamn thing. We're getting this guy, we're getting this guy. Look at this blockbuster we're gonna do he's got to be, well, he wants

Craig D'Alessandro:

to

Rob Kelly:

be like the meat of this slack chat where he's just blowing up everyone's phone. You know what I mean? Just like message after message, because people like all the talk is Dan, but

Rayshawn Buchanan:

it's hard. It's hard. Just like, you know, I'm Billy king in a negative way really changed everything. Yep. And Billy came down and take half of that deal. When we're not when I was talking about maybe him pulling the trigger, because once again, early early did like the first half of Denny's tenure as the GM was again, you know, you got the you know, I remember the Ricky Davis trade at the time. I remember the obviously, you know, the Ray Allen trade,

Dave Clarke:

by the way that the the burger machine

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Wallace,

Dave Clarke:

Brooklyn trade for Brooklyn, at the time.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Oh, it makes sense. Maybe

Dave Clarke:

it made sense for them. And when they and it was it was that Russian owner guy

Unknown:

decided, overall, yeah,

Dave Clarke:

yeah. decided that he didn't want to pay the luxury tax anymore. He was out on only a basketball team like the way that they were going with that Brooklyn trade like with the veteran contracts like the end, the end, the contract dump that they got, and what it turned out those pics even really turned into with the exception of Jason Tatum. Like, it wasn't as big of a fleece as we as Celtic. Like if you're a Brooklyn fan, you could make the case that it wasn't as big of a fleece as like then as like ESPN says that it is you know what I mean? Well, I think it's because of the time Now obviously, it turned out tonight.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

But I mean, even but the next year we realized that I mean, I mean,

Dave Clarke:

right now and we still haven't won a championship,

Rayshawn Buchanan:

right? But I was I was pissed. I was pissed that Marcus smart was the very first pick out today.

Rob Kelly:

I was not I was like, Yo, I

Rayshawn Buchanan:

was like, wait a minute, you're getting the guy that kicks you out of Oklahoma State to replace Rondo

Rob Kelly:

gotta kick someone on the sideline.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

No, I didn't care about that. I thought that was I mean that that happened was like whatever. But I'm like, wait a minute, you're replacing Rondo? Who can shoot another guy who who can shoot really like this is what we're doing? Um, and uh, you know, you get James john cuz Jameson had a decent tournament run by James young. By far maybe outside of Jr. Giddens was like the worst pick that Danny Ainge has made, um, you know, since he's been here, or not, Jr, goodness, I'm gay. Pruitt's I out of USC, my God gave her was this was just awful. It might have played, he played one more minute than all of us in the NBA. On maybe score one more point than all of us in the NBA. So, congrats to 2008 champion Gabe Pruitt. On the note, we know, the more like you. But I

Michael Marcangelo:

guess, I guess my question would be now that now that we're here, I think DK just brought up a pretty good point that I do want to get to other things that happened in the draft. You know, now that all the pics have been made, you know, was that Brooklyn deal? Like you just said was it a big fleece job because now as it's currently constituted, we're here with no more rings than they had in that time. And they have Kyrie they have Kevin Durant and they're probably the favorite in the East All right,

Dave Clarke:

well, that was pre dislike player control player dominance era that really emerged and I don't think there was any way No, no, totally I get what you're saying. It's just there was no way to really predict that. Basically, players were just going to decide the fate of franchises and like where they wanted to play and what they wanted to do. And that's becoming more and more true is like time goes on which I actually don't hate you know what I mean? Like I always said in all of all sports leagues, I'd rather see players get paid and players get benefited than like you know, fat cat owners or you know, who always turn out to be shitty people anyway and like I you know, it's fine for me it just again like I brought up at the start of the show it just doesn't benefit Boston because we have a history of not treating our players very well we have a history of racism and and shitty segregation and bad crowds and not taking the Celtics seriously before they won. And look, I think the Celtics is a great franchise and I think I love Boston and obviously like, you know, I'm on this podcast and I love our market but the harsh reality is like you're not going to get Kyrie Irving and Kevin Duran to just walk in to the Celtics it's just never gonna happen. So and like even getting Kyrie Irving there was like a narrative of his dad playing college ball here and like all this different stuff so it's like that narrative like fed into it. But you know, it Kevin Durant's just me we already saw it happen, you know, we thought we could get him and he went and signed for Golden State instead. So the best we can do is draft you know, the best we can do is take draft picks off of, you know, I mean, this again, this could change tomorrow, but the best we can do is take draft picks off a ton of draft picks off a team like Brooklyn, do what OKC is doing right now. And just hope I just hope for the best

Rayshawn Buchanan:

but that's how it's always been like before 2016 when we saw al Horford the biggest forgiveness sign up Boston ever had was Travis Knight. In the late 90s. Tell the tell I bet you you don't remember who Travis Knight was like he played in LA for a little while like he was he was terrible, but um That those late 90 something scenes were trashed. And there's other situations

Dave Clarke:

too. You know, we got Gordon Hayward

Rayshawn Buchanan:

No, no, I'm saying I'm saying up until that point. So we say like, Oh, we can't get XYZ we're like, yeah, like Boston wasn't seen as a destination. I said no, I said 2016 because Boston was on the rise. Yes, you get Horford you get on you know, you get a with the next year, you get into position you know, to get a Kyrie Irving so and it's funny I actually have to find the status that I that I wrote see if I could send it to you guys on in our group chat but about a month before Kyrie was traded I made a status saying like well man like if you can go into get carry you do it. He's three years younger. Um, you know, more and more upside so to speak. I said you go do it. And then I remember I never forget this. And I was in my class. And you know, we get an alert. Kyra was on the seltos. I was like, What? Like, are you kidding me? Like, did we really just get carried over? And once again, that's what he pushed the ships in because the initial plan is we talked about on Sunday. The initial plan was Kyrie Irving and Anthony Davis. And he there was didn't want to come here. Fine. Whatever it happens. And who knows. Maybe Karina KD was Danny's thing too. Besides it. Maybe it was that and then you know, we meet we met him in the bushes. He was like, I don't know. We'll see. You know, I mean, they pull the big guns Brady's around David Ortiz's around arm, but it just shake Crowder. Yeah. Um, you know, so it's just like, it just didn't work out that way. But, I mean, I don't know, man. I listen, you know? because like you said, That's not being a desirable location. At least not basketball is funny because people come here and football. They came here in Vietnam, and baseball as well. Um, but you know, you have to be attracted to that free agent. I said, most people don't want to live here. And that's fine. That's okay. Um, but I will say this as a pitch. When you went into the city, you instantly become a legend. That's not that's not a fact. And that's not an opinion does the fact So, um, if that's what matters to you, then you know, you think about coming here. You think about setting up your legacy? I don't know who that matters

Unknown:

to anymore though. It's a different Yeah.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

But it don't know wrong, guys. It doesn't matter. Because why do you Why do you think James Harden is looking to get sense of Brooklyn? Because the social media era now is his

Dave Clarke:

he wants to be an NBA legend. Not a Boston legend. No,

Rayshawn Buchanan:

no, no, no, no, that's what I mean. But that's I mean, oh, if you don't if you don't win by year, five years, six now, you're gonna trash you're a bomb, make some different go shake. shake things up. It's like, wait a minute, like, what happened to the chase? What happened to?

Dave Clarke:

Yeah, I mean, I mean, honestly, when we were kids, that stuff James Harden is doing right now. He'd be slated for, you know, like, it's like, oh, you could you couldn't win in Houston would have been the narrative. But now it's like Houston couldn't make couldn't win with James Harden. Like that little switch in narrative is is like, which one's actually true.

Rob Kelly:

Bobby, is James Harden. is James Harden.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yes. But it's a it's a mix of both. Because once again, when a trade for him in 2012, for Kevin Martin, or I forget who else was in the deal. He comes out I think, I think I think against OKC and jumps like 46. It was like, Whoa, like, Where was this at? And you know, then Okay, you know, Dwight Howard comes into next year. And like we talked about the other day, he Dwight Howard only had about a good year and a half there because his back was still hurting for what happened and I'm in LA, and he never really got on and never really got rectified. So, you know, a power gets traded, you know, and then you know, you bring in a few guys, you know, they make the playoffs. I think they lost to go to stay in the 2014 2015 year, um, you know, they ran see Golden State, quite quite a lot. And we cloud and you know, we joke about that, but it's like, yo, that 2014 2015 team was 67 and 13. Bobby, he didn't lose. So Tina was 45 and 37. And Louis, that team, he lost a team is one of the greatest, the greatest team in the 2010s. And it's not even close whether they had KD or not. He lost a team that was much better. It's one thing if you lost a team that was so 500 or, you know, like I said, the only thing the only time I hold it against him is what happened in 2018. Because you can't be up through two. You have game six at the crib, and you lose that can't happen but other than that, I'm sorry like you other people around you that you that you have to figure that part out. And guess what some of his performance subpar? Absolutely. I'm not gonna I'm not here to dispute that. No, if you if you think they get there without James Harden your smoke and mortar we know.

Rob Kelly:

I'm not saying I'm not what do you think the Celtics get to the conference finals though Jason Tatum. You're smoking more than we know. Right?

Dave Clarke:

That's what I mean. So like, it's the same. It's not the same thing that you're leveling. you're arguing that, like you're arguing, but

Rob Kelly:

what is that? What is how does the risk really outweigh the reward? You're gonna bring in another guy who's already known for perusing for not showing up in these big games and you think that that's going to turn these guys around? That's

Dave Clarke:

blasphemy. But let me ask you this. Seriously. How can you say James Harden is It because all he ever does is make it to the conference finals. And he doesn't get there. But Jason Tatum, we got to stick with him because all he ever does is make it to the conference finals and doesn't get there. Both things can't be true. So like,

Rob Kelly:

two years old, bro, if you told me Jason Hart, James Harden wasn't great, because he didn't get to the conference finals. When he's 23. I would have told you, you're fucking crazy. Because he's 23 years old to do 31. He's our age, and he hasn't gotten there. So it's like, Listen, by the time you're 30, still

Dave Clarke:

the best offensive player in the NBA, right?

Rob Kelly:

That's a player, but you're not going to be the best offensive player and take your team to that next level. I

Dave Clarke:

think it's a little I think it's a little dangerous to just keep letting them off the hook because of his age is I'm saying that's all I'm saying.

Rob Kelly:

I agree. But I don't think bringing him in here is that answer?

Michael Marcangelo:

So I think that we about beat the Celtics narrative into the ground so I think I do want to just really quickly move to the other aspects of the of the NBA Draft. Obviously the Celtics are not the only team in the NBA, so we don't I just want real quick. Who was the best player taken for the draft? Or in the draft for you guys? It was it all. Anthony Edwards. Are we all unanimous about that? Or was there someone else in there that slitted

Rob Kelly:

Wiseman, to me, he's the guy that's gonna make the fastest impact at least going into Golden State in that situation. If they keep them that's a big if big if they needed him more than anything else on that team. They need a big man to go in there and clock that middle. We saw what they can do when they actually have a legitimate big threat down low. They want a championship with Andrew Bogut. All right. That's all I'm saying. So when you put a legitimate big man on that team, they're dangerous, dangerous team.

Dave Clarke:

I think that would have been true Bobby, if if Clayton immediately got hurt if we're, like, the best natural ability that until

Rob Kelly:

this moment? Yeah,

Dave Clarke:

every time my best natural ability, like sure, but clay got hurt immediately. And then it's like, oh, well, nevermind then. You know, like, it's, it's all well and good until that happens for me. I think like the best draft like the best, like impact player was the guy that Nick's got that Obi Obi toppin guy. Like, I've never seen them draft that well before. Like, he's an instant impact guy. He's gonna come in, he's actually gonna make a difference for them. He's actually gonna win them games he's gonna like, and they got an eighth. You know? So like, that's like a pretty big deal. Like, yeah, is he as good of a player as like some of the guys drafted above him? No, but like, who won the top 10. Like, who won the draft? For me. It's the next because they finally did the right thing. They finally got their guy they finally did the thing they should have done by the time he felt to them. And he is going to make a difference for them. Like he you can build around that guy.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

But just for the sake of conversation, so she picked the guy was gonna pick Dave, I'm gonna go with Isaac a curl from Auburn. And today's NBA we guys can shoot the lights out and you know, they run our screens really well. And you know, you need a guy that could that could defend multiple positions. Isaac occurred to me is deported sceptical player in December draft. And I think he's gonna do wonders for thing got drafted by Cleveland again, number five. So, um, that that's to me was was the best. But if we can get into When can we do it winners or losers? Mike, can we do that? Sure. Yeah. So yeah, so for me, I think. So when there's like, like Dave said, I think New York is was a winner, you know, when you draft over the top and eight, and then on top of that, get down to zero for Minnesota? 33. I think that's phenomenal. And I know we've we've joked about them on the show, um, Philadelphia was winners last night, and I'm going to tell you why. When you can get rid of that contract on that you did al Horford. And, uh, you know, you get rid of Josh Richardson, who to me like they really should have just stayed in Miami. Like, he's to me. He's a system guy. He just stayed in Miami. But they did but they traded him away. Um, I think that when you get rid of that contract, and you bring in two shooters retaining urien and an SF curry, you know that to me guess what's that got 2017 2018 team that lost a Boston and stuck around really was the best team Philly had because they had Covington because they had Redick you know they had you know, so they had guys that can that can shoot it. So now again, that back Daryl Morey hurt during the week with Elton brand going and doing a couple years. So that that's amazing. And then another team that I think was a winner, actually was the Detroit Pistons, right? So I think some people were kind of worried about Bruce brown being dealt on, if you don't know roseburn got about the Detroit Pistons. So yeah,

Rob Kelly:

yes, man. gaylene Hey,

Rayshawn Buchanan:

well, yeah, so right. So I mean, that's but that's not the pic. I was I was happy about them getting me I think he's gonna be a good he's a good playmaker, but, um, you know, Bruce brown he's from he's from Massachusetts, once a Wakefield went away for high. Um, people will kind of wonder like, why would they do him he's been to started they're just like, well, now With him drafting siddig Bay out of Villanova and a draft the Isaiah Stewart, who I thought would have been a great fit here in Boston to, um, those are Dwayne Casey type guys. They defend. They play hard. They're going to be tough. So I think Detroit and unless you get a playmaker on top of that, so for them to get through first round picks out of out of just only having the seventh pick, I think it's phenomenon that makes them winners. Um, and then yes, I'll leave it at that. But I feel like I'm going on and on. But yeah, those those are the god those two things I thought definitely won the draft for sure. Last night. Go ahead, Dave.

Dave Clarke:

Can I do an honorable mention draft winner? The country of Nigeria? Yeah, yeah. Two Nigerian players drafted and then five, I think four or five more with a parent, at least one parent from Nigeria. I've been saying for years, that the all Nigerian all time all Nigerian NBA team would beat the all time NBA team. And we can do that in a separate podcast. But for some reason Nigerian guys super good at basketball. So shout out to the country of Nigeria. You guys did awesome. If it was, if you're never gonna hear seven Irish guys got trapped in the NBA Draft last night. So, you know, good for you guys.

Michael Marcangelo:

Right and then figure it for the biggest losers. Bobby, who were the your top three losers in the NBA Draft

Unknown:

last night.

Rob Kelly:

I have my winner ready. So I think the first one to me, and this is just rounding out everything that we just talked about for the first 45 minutes is I came about to say that. I think it's the Celtics. I like to pick that they did make a nice mess. I liked that pic a lot. But the rest of the everything that happened just to me is a complete disaster. I think they're my first my first loser. The fact that Hayward opps out like he does. We couldn't get a deal done. And it's just all these rumors that always happen every single year. I think it ends up making us kind of look like the laughingstock of the league. You know what I mean? It's just every single year is the same goddamn thing. We have got to make all these deals. And then we just end up taking these same three guys. And it's the same thing every year. So I just feel like it's just like, What the hell are we doing here? My my second loser is the Charlotte Hornets. I think that when that will ball to me, I don't know. Or lavar ball or Wilma? lobello. Yeah, so now Yeah, that came with ours death. I think lamella is not does not have the potential that people see. I don't know what people see in him. I watch his tape, I don't think is that impressive. Especially playing in a league like the Australian Basketball League. If you're gonna come to the NBA and think that you're going to be a good player here, then you better be dominating in Australia. And the tape I was watching is not that. So I don't know why he had such a high bit of data. I really think it is just that ball name. Add in that he went to Michael Jordan and the worst draft or in the history of the NBA NBA. I think just kept that right off the top in the history. And

Dave Clarke:

yeah, that might be extreme.

Rob Kelly:

One of the worst one of the worst.

Michael Marcangelo:

Don't back and retake dude.

Rob Kelly:

He's one of the worst. Papi, there's a lot of there's a lot of bad drafters out there. All right. I'm all about I'm all about letting everyone get the credit. Even if it's bad credit, you know that. My last loser to me was I just the entire NBA draft is to me that is the last loser. I was so disappointed in the whole thing. I was expecting so many fireworks so much to happen. And the biggest draft deal we got of the night was Luke canard trading for fans of the biggest Yeah, it's just it's a joke every year where we think it's gonna be this big thing but ends up being like the NFL trade deadline. It's like what, what just happened? Nothing.

Dave Clarke:

Sometimes it's pretty cool. But yeah, last night was a dud.

Rob Kelly:

Yeah. So that's my third one is just the NBA fence. The whole draft was a loser.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yeah, I mean, for me, I think as far as losers go, Minnesota, um, when you have a guy saying that I'd rather he'd rather play in the NFL than, you know, play in the NBA and you went number one is crazy. Um, but it just speaks to the ineptitude of a franchise that Minnesota has been since 1989. Um, you know, the best player was Kevin Garnett, and he was picked fifth in 1995. So, it just speaks to how bad a franchise has been. And then also bring it back Ricky Rubio for the 19 million time on at this moment. It's not acceptable. And I know that was spoken there last night about Ricky Rubio being loved in Minnesota. And okay, cool. But love for what, um, he was part of the worst back to back pics, ever. And the draft, you know, you go back and forth, you know, you go Johnny Flynn, Johnny Flynn, john, Johnny and Johnny Flynn got drafted mainly because of what happened in that six overtime game against Connecticut. Um, you know, and you know, Rubio was, you know, supposed to be that flash in the pan coming over for Spain, and, you know, um, you know, yeah, I mean, I listen, I like his game a little bit. I think he's okay, he's not something that's gonna Wow, you Because again doesn't allow me but he's okay but to get him for the third or fourth time to me is just unacceptable at this point. Chicago jathan patchy Williams at four arm. I just don't know how he went before his teammate Devin frisell who I thought Boston could have gotten to if they if he had fell down to 14. Someone who is going to defend really well someone that can also shoot it. Is that a better shooter than me Smith but definitely shooter he was 41 42% from three arm but passion even passion passion. Passion is tough. Um, but there's no way he should have went before his teammates or or top in you know, you know, or it shouldn't have happened

Dave Clarke:

in Steel's before Ray steals all the losers let me get one as you said is possible. Let me just throw out the Milwaukee Bucks like I know they didn't drop

Rayshawn Buchanan:

that on my list but

Dave Clarke:

thank God cuz I was like, he's just gonna say every team. I'm just lucky. The Milwaukee books didn't draft I don't think in the first round and I'm not criticizing their draft but their draft night was embarrassing because that back Bogdanovich thing, where they were like, they were like bragging that they got Bogdanovich in like this sign and trade deal and then Bogdanovich was like, uh, I didn't Buchan agree to that.

Craig D'Alessandro:

And, like, you say, Milwaukee.

Rob Kelly:

Yeah. Yeah. And

Dave Clarke:

it's like, and also, you know, you're looking at that Milwaukee situation and it's on a knife's edge. And I know they brought some some talent in and I know they were looking at some other guys. And it was good that because they got rid of Bledsoe right but so is gone.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yep. So in Georgia,

Dave Clarke:

okay, which I've been saying for years. Like Bledsoe is not going to be your guy like he was. He was he was like the best backup point guard for a while and like he should have stayed that he didn't have the ceiling to be like the best guard ballcock winning team. Yeah, well, I'd like Jamal Crawford. It's all different currencies. I like Jamal Crawford a lot actually. But that's a whole different conversation. But the the Milwaukee Bucks Something's got to give there and I think if I was Yunus, looking at that Bogdanovich thing you know looking at the kind of moves that they're making looking at the cap that they have i don't know i don't i don't see him playing in Milwaukee for much longer so I'm gonna I'm gonna say a loser of draft night because that was the storyline of draft night was was Milwaukee Bucks

Rayshawn Buchanan:

yeah no that's no and that I'm glad you brought that up cuz I didn't I didn't even think that to put that there but I'm shocked honestly Yeah, no yeah, I

Unknown:

think we're gonna hit all the points

Rayshawn Buchanan:

No, I'm the last those are actually to me actually was going to stay right as you know mainly because of my you know clay going down you know that was unfortunate obviously. Um, but then you know to me I still think they shouldn't move in number to pick like I get it getting Wiseman you know, you know they felt that he was king Mr. So be it but like why has been doesn't help them win the championship next year? Yeah, it's like so um, he's still a project even at number two like I think he's gonna be very good. I think he's someone that could be a perennial All Star maybe an MVP you know him being left handed he kind of reminds me to do at Robinson

Rob Kelly:

he's got a lot I see him as a cat I think he's why Carlin two towns I said they're very similar those to

Rayshawn Buchanan:

me and they better hope that he is that a home because if he's not then it's like, Okay, well, you know, it was a waste to pick but I just think that he you know, going to stay definitely relog mainly because we were playing in like you said you couldn't move in number two, pick an angel wings. Like I felt like that to me. Everyone was thinking like, oh, man, like they got the pic and then they got wiggles like they're gonna move those guys. So just like what just like our fans would think, oh, we're gonna move off the pic. But they didn't move off that picture. I just feel like okay, you could turn it into some or some other team. We've been desperate like Boston would have been desperate to get that number to pick and I'm positive like we talked about yesterday. I'm positive they would have they would have dropped the Wiseman and number two, or who knows? Maybe they trigger for somebody else to get some some veteran help, but Well, we'll never know. But, but those are my three losers Minnesota, Chicago and going to say,

Rob Kelly:

okay, just make one more loser. It's more of like a depressing loser. I just feel bad for him. Right. I

Michael Marcangelo:

already mentioned you just named the entire NBA Draft as a loser.

Rob Kelly:

Well, one more. So yes, I did. But so Ricky Rubio is one of the saddest things I've ever seen what happened to him in the 48 hours. He got traded from the Phoenix Suns. He sent out a tweet being like, ah, because he liked the sounds he liked being there. He sent out a tweet be like, man, well, I guess this is the business upside down smiley face. Less than 16 hours later, he got trader to get it was just like, bro, yeah, this is the business Guess what? You're out of here again. See you later.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yeah, you know, it's just like, you know, and you know, and to speak to that so good thing we talked about it. Um, the Chris Paul trade already go down by the time we talk on Sunday. might have been afterwards, right.

Rob Kelly:

It was like I said,

Rayshawn Buchanan:

it was gonna be spoken about but either way. I'm just I just had to put this out there. I thought about it. It's like man, if Devin Booker put 26 six and five planets, Ricky Rubio, do you think he's gonna do a crystal ball? My God, my God, what do you think he's gonna do is even a

Rob Kelly:

real man finish to be good next year we'll go convenors that's what we're gonna end it on.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yep. Yeah, that's

Michael Marcangelo:

a great way to end it. So, thank you guys all so much for joining us on this inaugural episode of the NBA Draft review just the tip off show my name is Michael Mark Angela was joined by Rachael Buchanan the real became Bob Kelly D cases Dave Clark and the best producer and all of the Lance Craig D'Alessandro so until Episode 18 we'll talk to you guys next time.

Craig D'Alessandro:

Thanks for listening to this episode of missing the point. missing the point is a one hour weekly to our monthly podcast recapping the biggest stories in the world of sports what the New England flavor. The show notes and transcript of today's episode can be found in the description box below. As well as on our website. MTP show comm if you're new to the show, please consider subscribing is the easiest way to see when we publish new episodes. We are on iTunes, Spotify, Google and wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to rate us and leave a review of any of our shows. We always appreciate your feedback. And be sure to follow us on all our social medias. All of our links will be in the show notes and check out our brand new website www.mptv.com that's MTP show.com for missing the point. I'm Craig D'Alessandro. We'll talk to you next time.