Nov. 21, 2020

#18 - Cheap Heat: WWE Survivor Series Preview

#18 - Cheap Heat: WWE Survivor Series Preview

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On this episode of Missing The Point, it's time for some Cheap Heat as Mike, Craig, and Rayshawn preview "WWE Survivor Series."
We'll break down the matches and discuss what should happen versus what will happen. We'll give our top five Survivor Series moments, and also discuss The Undertaker's legacy as this Sunday is billed as his final farewell.
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Transcript

Craig D'Alessandro:

This episode missing the point it's time for some cheapy as Mike Craig and rayshawn preview WWE Survivor Series, we'll break down the matches and discuss what should happen versus what will happen. We'll give our top five Survivor Series moments and also discuss The Undertaker's legacy as this Sunday is billed as his final farewell but first This episode is being brought to you by box Oh crafts box Oh was an arts and crafts focus kids subscription box box Oh is apparently a company that combines creativity and convenience in one monthly package delivered right to your door. Box Oh smear box box Oh holidays contains four separate art projects to get you and your family into the holiday spirit. Whether it's Halloween, Hanukkah, or Easter. They've got you covered with holiday fun. Box. Oh, we can't wait to see you create check out box Oh craft calm and exclusively to our listeners. enter the promo code MTP for 15% off your first order. That's b o x X Oh crafts calm, promo code and TP missing the point is like one hour weekly to our monthly podcast recapping the biggest stories in the world of sports with the New England flavor. The show notes and transcript of today's episode can be found in the description box below, as well as on our website, MTP show.com. If you're new to the show, consider subscribing is the easiest way to see when we publish new episodes. We are on iTunes, Spotify, Google and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to rate us and leave review of any of our shows. We always appreciate your feedback. Also, be sure to follow us on all of our social medias. All of our links will be in the show notes and check out our brand new website WWW dot MTP show.com that's MTP show.com. And now this is missing.

Michael Marcangelo:

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls children of all ages, the Mt. P podcast proudly brings to you the most entertaining and informative wrestling podcasts that you will ever listen to. And that is not a prediction. That is a spoiler. And this is cheap heat. All right, everybody welcome to the the inaugural episode of cheap heat presented by the M TP Podcast Network. I am Michael Mark Angela alongside Craig D'Alessandro and rayshawn Buchanan Craig, you're not always on the air and so it took a wrestling podcast to bring you out of the shadows.

Craig D'Alessandro:

It takes a very specific niche to try and drag me out into the actual podcasting realm. But you know, you found one here I am following and oh, I'm

Rayshawn Buchanan:

good man. I had been waiting to do a show like this. You know, we've been on air for a little while but this has been Yeah, this this is dope and I can't wait to get into this man. But let's get it.

Michael Marcangelo:

For those of you that don't know cheapy will be a pretty regular wrestling podcast that we do here is we are the three biggest wrestling fans at the MTP network. That is we've all been watching I can speak for myself. I've been watching probably since 1992 I've only missed a handful of Monday night Roz I'm not ashamed to admit it because I am recently engaged so it's okay it did not stop did not stop my growth at all. But guys like for you? How long have you have you been wrestling fans for

Craig D'Alessandro:

I probably started for me my my first memories because I'm I'm 32 years old. So I was born in 1988. So I was I was I had some of those parents who like didn't want me to watch wrestling when I was younger but I eventually found it on television anyway.So my like first real exposure started up like around I want to say 9697 when Goodyear Stone Cold Steve Austin was just starting to rain you know start reigned supreme. My first memory of wrestling is when Stone Cold Steve Austin kidnap Vince McMahon. I really thought he was going to assassinate him in the middle

Michael Marcangelo:

of the festival was on television here that is just like a joke. It was just like a joker bang gun in the pistons pants and

Unknown:

roll ring. Yeah. I thought Oh, God. Yeah.

Michael Marcangelo:

Man. 316 says I just pissed my pants.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Right, exactly. That was one of the best segments ever. But no, so for me, I'm a little bit younger than y'all saw. I'm 30 but for me, I would say 9798. So now, you know that's at the moment that Austin's really, you know, he's essentially white hot at this moment. And, you know, really the first major memory really, there's a little after the screws, so I'll say I want to say is I think it's the Shawn Michaels match and take a match at the Royal Rumble, um, was my India before I'm not sure but, um, whenever whenever bad luck was so it was a bad 197 Yeah, it's a bad 197 Got heavy cane. That's got to be cane. You know, tears off the hinges of the door and, uh, you know which, you know, Glenn Jacobs who was came to Mayor Knox Knox County tells a great story of that on the WWE, WWE Network. So yeah, let's get into it man.

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, so the reason why we all came together for this show is because this this Sunday, tomorrow is Survivor Series. It's one of the big four pay per views that the WWE still puts out. And it's chock full of their biggest stars and their biggest stars being sent off this you know, we're on Survivor Series, we are going to finally see The Undertaker's final farewell. Something that I think you know, I personally never thought was going to happen I thought this guy Mark Calloway who I think Undertaker is the greatest character in the history of professional wrestling. Just because of the way he protected that character for so long. And for it to end 30 years after it began in the exact same show. It's going to be emotional and I kind of almost wish he was going to be fans in attendance What do you guys think?

Craig D'Alessandro:

That was the that was a big thing for me because I was you know a bringing back on when this past WrestleMania when it was the undertaker versus AJ Styles and a Boneyard match better live match whatever you want to call it. That was that was originally you know, and it still was, I guess the undertaker his final match. But the the circumstances that we live in now ended up turning into a cinematic match, which was to me the highlight of the entire show is obviously this WrestleMania was different. It was kind of lackluster, the entire show. But to me the way they pulled that match off that was just phenomenal. You know, he brought back the American badass character. And he and AJ Styles just, you know, hypothetically tore the house down.

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, so for you, right. I mean, you've been watching since you said 9798. That's really when taker was was heating up. He'd already been he'd already been in the business know for a while, but he'd been in the dead web for 17 years at that time. And we just saw Kane know that Survivor Series you know, I don't he did not have a memorable, memorable performance. But 9798 99 those are all big years for for taker. So for you, I guess I'd be interested to learn like, what do you think about The Undertaker's legacy?

Rayshawn Buchanan:

No, I mean, to me, I think he's the best ever to do it and like you said, there's no one that protected the business more than him. And you know, there was no one more loyal to this like man than the undertaker right? So, you know, he didn't jump shipping in 19 like Hogan did. Even though that was I mean July 2 1996. Changed the business forever so that would be another podcast to most most likely but you know, you know another one for the good guys but no um, yeah, I mean, he's like he's the best really terrible do it in my opinion and his character w scared the hell out of me. I'm not gonna lie on Skype I scared more siljan you know as usually especially in his initial Survivor Series appearance like you know, I'm coming down to go graci you know, buddy love or brother love buddy whatever love He was um it's been a long time but it just like, you know, the undertaker actually was candy on the ticket first

Unknown:

as well. He was can The Undertaker in and on in an unaired match before I

Rayshawn Buchanan:

match, right. So it comes out as an undertaker. You know, the kids are like mortified, don't you know just super super sharp super scared. But, um,I said by the time I started watching him he was in that diminished with darkness era.

Michael Marcangelo:

For me that was that was the absolute scariest, you know, by the time I'm 10 years old or nine years old. And when he knows, it's awesome to talk about this now looking back, but when that storyline when he kidnapped Stephanie McMahon, and he sees

Rayshawn Buchanan:

a five star.

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, I mean, they were doing raising human frickin sacrifices on on broadcast television.

Craig D'Alessandro:

When when the undertaker was coming back from his injury that he suffered, which is why he got written up by song called savasana summerside. before and they started doing the promos, where Dennis Knight got kidnapped, and he was locked in the dungeon. And then there was you know, the you know, they displayed the whole Undertaker symbol thing. Then they brought Dennis Knight out he was on a table and then they literally cut him open and sacrificed him and turned them into Midian that was the scariest point of wrestling and has never been talked in any time

Michael Marcangelo:

when you talk about you cannot talk about the WWE without without mentioning Undertaker within like the next five seconds. He is and he's been the leader of that locker room. Everyone's heard all the stories and I think you know recently he did us all a great service by releasing that. The last ride documentary, it was a lot like it was the the last dance series of WWE, right? I mean, we finally got to see what was going through the mind what was actually happening in the life of Mark Callaway in the last you know, four or five years. And all this guy wanted to do his entire life was make sure that if you paid to see him that he gave you the best show possible Recently you know you can say what you want there have been ups there have been downs but that Boneyard match there's no other way to end that his career that that is the way to do it that sums up everything he summoned all of his powers from the early days with when he did you know, his little arm raising and the fire came up out of nowhere. I think it had everything that you could have asked for. And I think that you know, again, not having fans here you know for Survivor Series in the Thunderdome live it's probably going to benefit taker the person because he would get choked up Can you imagine having 20,000 people you know screaming Thank you taker when he's trying told they would

Rayshawn Buchanan:

hijack the show like it would have been like 30 minutes for like I remember during um this might have been after at the raw when the raw the WrestleMania 24 when Ric Flair had had retired from from the WWE before we went to TNA and you know, he came up there as the last guy and you know, he you know, he did something he never does he broke character and hugged you know, Ric Flair front of everybody so and he you know did a sign of respect when he gets on one knee and you know some in some is a lightning or whatever so you know that that was dope but

Craig D'Alessandro:

but that just that just goes to show you how that just goes to show you how big the undertaker was because that particular segment they had to do off air because they knew that people would they knew that people would just you know surely Undertaker more than they would Ric Flair at that point. He's He's right.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Right, exactly. That's true. But some of that might touch on about what his version of the last day and so that that's that's spot on. It's funny because my I mean the first time we've seen a person once they had to be like, smacked down or might have been when he came back at the Royal Rumble in Boston and southern three if I'm not mistaken, but um, my very first WrestleMania was WrestleMania 33. No, but yeah, so that that match man was crazy. And then, you know, you see him leave everything in the ring. And this was all everybody was like, gets on TV doesn't do it justice. Like 75 76,000 people just silent light weight, like Roman Reigns really just ended his career like and I said I'm Listen, I'm probably the biggest Roman Guy out here. Like, he's big, he's the he's the guy right now. But I was like, wait a minute, like, Ellen Roman do this right? taker. on this stage, I like really, as a couple couple on man, like now, like, you got to have him come back in and knock his ass out. It's almost like do something like you, you cannot let him go out, you know, like this, but as we saw in the documentary, physically, he was just he just he just couldn't do it. And you know, and you know, just like any great competitor, any great athlete, you know, you really do want to go out on your own terms. And, you know, honestly, he could have been done at WrestleMania 34. Cuz it was a short match. But he was phenomenal. It looks so good. And he was he was really good. And that matched against Siena. And I was okay, we can we can end it that way.

Unknown:

I was going to call out a match.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

I mean, the crowd was hype, you know, Superdome was was crazy. You know, I you know, I you know, as Michael Cole was saying came unglued. Like I was on glued, um, you know, I lost my mind when that bell hit as 80,000

Michael Marcangelo:

does not speak to him because he's the only guy and I mean, aside from like, Austin, right? That, you know, without a without a shadow of a doubt that he's actually going to be at the arena that night. They tell you, he's not going to be there. We all know it's a work, right. And then the gong hits, and the whole place just goes nuts. Because that that's how much that character means to people that have been watching this for as long as they have because they now see, you know, when we were kids, he was this this unearthly creature. Now, because of all the things that we've been able to watch, we know he's just, he's just a man out there, trying to make sure that that his legacy is remembered, and he does it justice. So I think a couple things I want to touch on for Tigger before we jump to the rest of the code here. I want to ask you two questions and let's try not to go too far into it. Should he have lost at mania against Brock

Craig D'Alessandro:

you're talking about you're talking about New Orleans right? What

Michael Marcangelo:

should should should the streak have ended?

Craig D'Alessandro:

I think the streak should have ended but not against Brock Lesnar. I felt like there are a lot of people like that if you're going to end the streak that means you're going over the moon. Yeah, I mean, you are one of the you know, you know, it's not like a roll up at a cheap winner make art match. You're beating the undertaker well, that point was 21 and oh at WrestleMania and Brock Lesnar at that time was you know, and still is this is still his current run that particular WrestleMania didn't need that didn't need that fuel to his three you know, Brock Lesnar. We know he but

Michael Marcangelo:

the one thing I'll say like if you think about it, though, right, like it just again, just just to show you how much useless knowledge I have stocked away in my head when Brock came back, he lost his split a series with Triple H right? He beat him at SummerSlam. He loses the next year 29 mania like and then he has a nice match with with punk at SummerSlam 2013. If not broccoli if you're looking at that match, right? Do we realistically Is there any shot in hell that that mark Calloway the manner Undertaker, even at that point in time could have could have lasted 10 seconds in a real fight with Brock. So why not him? Right? And it and it did propel him like if you remember after that, he then goes on and takes into the Suplex City at SummerSlam. And in 2014. And this started that ring. Last in the last question. If he had beaten bra, does he lose terrains in the in 2017? And would that actually be the end?

Rayshawn Buchanan:

I mean, well, I mean, he did lose her in 2017. But could I think I mean, I you know I said no to the other question. I didn't elaborate a little bit but I feel like um, and I may get you know, I may get heat for this. Oh, hey, GP, you know, hey, to me, and because I'm still hoping for him to come back. And I don't know how the fans feel about this. I will listen to this, but at WrestleMania 29. It was it was clobbering time. I want to see him pumped to be that guy like he's he's like he's the next guy like you had to Austin you had your rocks. You had your hunted you had to take takers you had Kane. You had Jericho you had that who he also had his he had a terrible matches when I took his friend Diego but that's sorry about you know,

Unknown:

yes,

Rayshawn Buchanan:

uses knowledge. Right. But I Oh, I really wish that CM Punk was was that guy but if it wasn't going to be Brock, then yes, it should have been Roman, because Roman clearly is being molded to be that next guy. Um, he's clearly in that run right now. Um, that is his yard. And now he's the tribal chief.

Michael Marcangelo:

Yep. So let's that's a perfect segue. So the first match that we're going from the top of the card down right i think that i think everyone always starts on the bottom that goes up I want to start from the from the premier match here. So what we're going to do is we're going to run through the Survivor Series card and we're going to we're going to talk about what they will do versus what we think they should do. Right? So the main event is gonna be WWE Champion Drew McIntyre, who just recently regained his title against Randy Orton raw against the the tribal chiefs the reigning defending universal champion Roman Reigns, so I'm gonna open it up to you guys what do they do and what what should they do here?

Craig D'Alessandro:

I think that Roman Reigns right now in WWE is white hot material. You do not mess that kind of you do not mess that kind of momentum up. I think that you know, it's going to be a good match between two of them. I'm pretty sure it's going to be shenanigans finish. But right now with with with Roman Reigns with what he has, and he just came back from what he's done since SummerSlam, and Hela cell and the momentum he has right now Paul Heyman and The Usos you do not mess that momentum up with a loss. You You know if it rains, we'll go over in this

Rayshawn Buchanan:

match. Yeah, and it's like, you know, and Craig, I just want you to know, that's not a prediction. That's a spoiler.

Unknown:

That's right.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Um, you know, so and I just to me, I'm, I'm biased. I don't care what the storyline is, most times I'm gonna pick from it rain. So I'm going with Roman Reigns on this won't be much better than the WrestleMania 35 match when I was there for that too. And I was just like, why are they doing this? But I mean, hey, I guess it was okay match at the time, but just this was just because MacIntyre's has been had excuse me, has had a great year of this year as well. But you know winning the rumble and you know being Lesnar and mania and you know, so he's been he definitely hasn't been what they call it trans transition champion like he's definitely held his own and um, you know, if Roman Reigns has been number one far as you know white hot magnetized to me is at least two or three Um, so I'm looking forward to a great match but i think that you know, range range will get put over and it will just continue to continue that battle.

Michael Marcangelo:

What bothers me about this match and I think this is the main conversation that people are having about this match is that now that Drew McIntyre is universal champion again, they have this huge program with Randy Orton for mumps for months leading up to Helm itself or the he was the greatest wrestler on the planet and he's finally put it you know, he was finally put over over Drew McIntyre. He beat up Christian he beat up Shawn Michaels he beat up the big show he beat up Ric Flair and then you take the title off him by the next pay per view before the next pay review. I understand their mentality with this is they want to meet a man with a high established deal versus an established baby face. But just to take that off Randy Orton so fast it's just it just killed everything that are going on with him.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Right What I think with that is though, um, could we saw it at this year's rumble on him edge had to me actually that was the match of WrestleMania wasn't the boneyard match. Randy running around edge match was man. So has it like whatever people thought he last shut up like you don't know wrestling like edge edges that guy, y'all. So anyone that had flash photography, you see what I did there, Mike, I saw that he did, you know, saw that he still had it and just still deliver a five star match. Um, so what i what i think take taking him off to take him off that that championship pedestal. I think that sets up for WrestleMania 37 where him and Orion will have another matchup again, you know,

Craig D'Alessandro:

sure, but still isn't coming back until WrestleMania season maybe you know.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yeah, right. But I mean, maybe that's what it was, I don't know. But that's usually what they do.

Craig D'Alessandro:

If I was booking it, which is a whole nother conversation we can have I would have had that title on Randy Orton until we got to WrestleMania and Edward came back and challenge for it.

Michael Marcangelo:

So here's what I think is gonna happen. The first thing I'm going to say is I think that this summer, this Survivor Series card and all this very serious codes like in the last five years have been tainted and softened by the fact that it's all champions versus champions and brands versus brands. So there's like really no meaningful you're not gonna have that big moment you know what I mean? Like I I used to love when you'd have a WWE Championship match and they would be an actual finish because it was a big for what I think's gonna happen here. I think you're going to see an arco out of nowhere on Drew McIntyre that that lays out the middle of the ring, and Roman Reigns covered him for the 123 which gets us back to MacIntyre versus orden. Orton beats him again for the title, or is the champion going into mania against edge? That's what I see happening. That's why I think they should do by the way

Craig D'Alessandro:

does not kind of screw up with what they're trying to do with the themes yet

Michael Marcangelo:

maybe. But I think like he's one of those characters. He's like, the theme right now is like mankind 97 right. You can put him with anybody and he's gonna I understand right now he's kind of in a mini feud with the MS. Yeah, but you can put wherever you put him he's gonna bring intrigue because that character just just just does it right like you want to be with him Alexa Bliss are going to do so I think we all have Roman Reigns going over. I think we all think that that's the right thing to do. The next match is the men's Survivor Series match, which is the traditional tag matches, which is team. I think it's it's team. Team, Rob Keithley, AJ Styles Seamus and Braun strowman. And riddle versus Kevin Owens, Jake Russo, King Corbin, Seth Rollins, and TBD from Smackdown. We'll find out on this on this week's edition. I think, traditionally, you know what they should do in this if they really if they really, really, really want to establish either jehu so as Amanda better or riddle as Amanda better, they have the opposing team have three people left and that person goes through them. I would love to see a monster run by Jay, you. So I think what you saw with him, and Roman Reigns, it just shows you he can do it. I wasn't buying into it. But that Hell in a Cell match the story that they told, and I quit match inside Helena sell this this guy can do you could probably print money with him if you do it well. So here's what I think is going to happen. I think I think team Ross is gonna win decisively what I think should happen is I think riddle should have to go through three remaining members of the SmackDown team to to win it for his team. So I think I think it's going to be rod decisively. But I think that's that's a bad thing to do.

Craig D'Alessandro:

I actually agree with you. But in a different way. I think this is the magic bullets carefully over the top. I you know, Vince McMahon was to put Keith Lee absolutely over the moon. And I think that this is kind of the map. So they kind of kind of do that. with that. I think there are two distinct possibilities with this match. It's it's being speculated that that last TBD for Team Smackdown is going to be biggie. So it's either going to be a peut B as I look at all these, I looked at all these names for this Survivor Series match. Nobody really needs to go over except j you so he flee, or n and if I'm right, and it's Biggie than Biggie, so it's gonna it's going to be one of the finish should have bought one of those three year olds. I

Rayshawn Buchanan:

just don't know what they're doing. But for me, it's Keith Lee just coming in and just you know, just this will be his coming out party. Yeah, it's almost like he was in my notes, Craig because I have the same exact thing. Like I think that is caseplease time. And my thing is he was gaining traction and Z. And I'm just sick of guys coming together killing it and then z and then it gets either Smackdown or raw and then they just says a lot, right? Like I like Matt Rado, you know he's the new he's a new bro. You know now there's Zack Ryder as as left but

Unknown:

our original bro That's right,

Rayshawn Buchanan:

right. Yeah, exactly. That's right. Exactly. So it's just like you know Okay cool. But yet Keith Lee is the guy that needs to get put over like local jails is doing you're right Mike like I share the same sentiment like I didn't I wasn't buying into them like yo like he's a tag team guy like I just I didn't see him being I didn't see them the energy that was being separated like I love when they came out especially to their newer things all right, like Welcome to the penitentiary that that that is that is phenomenal. light on you know to see 80,000 yellow day one women down sentence like that that is that is phenomenal. So, you know it's great but ya know Jay was so was was awesome but no um it needs to end with a Spirit Bomb 123 and you know Mia you come out and celebrate with her man.

Michael Marcangelo:

So moving on to the next Survivor Series method the women Survivor Series match team raw versus team Smackdown I wish this was a higher profile match. So for Team raw we had Naya Jax Shannon bazer, Lacey, Lacey Evans, Peyton Royce and Lana versus the st. of SmackDown, Bianca Bel Air Ruby, Riot Liv Morgan and to to be able to be determined, listen, I don't even care if they feel that those slots. This should be Bianca bel airs coming out party, That woman is has the ability to be the best sorry, the second best female on SmackDown behind Sasha. And she has all the God given abilities in the ring. She just oozes charisma. So what they should do is let her run through the this hour start the match events. Anyone if you're listening, look at this way. But Bianca start, never let her tag anybody else in and let her eliminate every single person from raw. Nothing would make her a bigger star than doing that. That's what they should do. I don't know if they're gonna do that. But I think Bianca BelAir is on the winning team Smackdown wins.

Craig D'Alessandro:

Well, you just look at the SmackDown team right now. It's Bianca Bel Air. Great. Super. That's phenomenal. Ruby, right. And Liv Morgan. Good, good. I love Ruby. I love love Mark and I love Ruby Riot originally incarnation of the riot squad was was awesome. But and that worked out that worked. Oh, he was there. But to me the only thing that gets my attention on this background team. And I feel like at this point, they're just gonna throw in two people. Maybe they'll throw in like,

Michael Marcangelo:

here's what I think. You know what, here's what I think Craig and I'm sorry to cut you off. I think Charlotte's gonna come back. I think she's gonna be one of those people that comes in and she doesn't need it. I met like I hit she's one of those people that I don't miss. But I will love when she comes back. Right? She doesn't need to be there right now when they need to build up other stars to to have great matches with her. But I can see this has been trying a hot shot. No, I would say a buy Raiders subscription. But this is this is me moving on to SmackDown.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Maybe they she was already on there for a little while while she?

Craig D'Alessandro:

Well she traded raw. Yes. He was drafted. Oh, Jethro.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Okay, so you don't? Okay, at that point. All right. So, um,

Unknown:

he was drafted. Robbie, so was on Friday. Yeah,

Rayshawn Buchanan:

right. Exactly. Um, I miss you, Selena. But, uh, no. So, man. Um, I do think I like Bianca BelAir. Like, I think she's awesome. You know, I also like, the true prophets that we'll talk about them soon as well. Actually, the person I think that he said golden as much as she at least he Evans. And the reason why I think that I remember last year, I think she came out in the Royal Rumble down in Phoenix. And, you know, she kind of got like a lukewarm reaction, because she started out pretty early. And then, you know, she had a pretty good showing there. And then right away, you know, they tagged and put over Baron Corbin and you know, they kind of had this feud going against, you know, Becky Lynch, or Seth Rollins. And it's like, oh, okay, like, she's holding her own, but she's a pretty good heel. So I feel like, you know, she she could hold her own. And there's anyone that needs now that push like, I think after what they saw her last year, I think that it could be her time to get catapulted into that, that, that place where, you know, she becomes a champion, and I would love to see Lacey Evans. Um, I fell in love her character, like, at first I was kinda like, oh, but now, I'm Brock, were like, you know, and I'm, you know, I'm one of the nasties I'm here for it.

Michael Marcangelo:

I gotta tell you, Craig before before you go, her women's rights punch or whatever the name of it is. That is the most legitimate punch I've ever seen a female wrestler throw. And every time it had every time it happens, like I think she had I think she had her I actually knocked her clean out. Going back to what you were saying, Mike, I actually completely agree with you. This needs to be you know, Bianca Bellerose match, because I just look at, I look at everyone in this match so far, and I just, I just, I just don't see where they're going with it. To me. It's just inevitable that it's going to be a comedy angle from the raw side. Where is this going to be? another week of Naya Jax putting launa through a table right? Yes. I it's important to note in this match that this wasn't the original lineup for raw. It was supposed to be night Jack's Jenna Baylor la Mandy rose and Dana Brooke. But you know Naya Jax, as has been her reputation in the WWE injured another competitor. No way.

Unknown:

She

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, I was gonna say no way to do this I

Rayshawn Buchanan:

know he actually did that like

Michael Marcangelo:

it's not like she deprived us of what was going to be the the best non title match in the history of Survivor Series Becky Lynch versus Ronda Rousey that that was going to be it for me the female Ryback she is Andrews competitors because she's she's such a dangerous worker she's

Craig D'Alessandro:

hurt so many players he dislocated Mandy rose his shoulder and now she can't compete. And I just don't I just this is I this will not be the top match of the night. I can just say that right now. I just don't know a lot of going through a table. So the reason why I'm not mad at that, though.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yeah. I find her useless.

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah. She she's actually one of those gorgeous people. I

Rayshawn Buchanan:

just had to find her useful. So she's a great, she's

Michael Marcangelo:

a great manager. She can talk people into the building her unfortunate inabilities in the ring. I guess she's a she's 1000 times better of a wrestler than I ever will be. So remember with a matter of perspective, she can talk them in, she just can't keep them in with with her abilities in the ring. I think he's not mad. But she's not. She's not good. Right. And she would have been the best in the in the bell error. You know what I mean? Like she's good enough. And she can talk and but we're in we're in a we're in a situation in the WWE where every woman on that roster for the most part can work. Well,

Craig D'Alessandro:

if it was if it was her versus cannabis, Candace. Michelle, I'm going to clinic. Yeah, yeah, right. I probably need to go a methadone clinic after that. Now. I wanted I wanted Bianca Bella to run roughhouse through this is because of this of this next match. We have

Michael Marcangelo:

Oscar versus the blueprint, the standard, the role model, whatever you want to call her, but she is the boss, Sasha Banks. She is my favorite superstar, said Shawn Michaels retired. I gotta tell you, I've been I've been all in on her since NXT. I think I think Vince has dropped the ball 1000 times over on her. Now that she's finally won the championship and wait for it, she retained it and say and defend. I think we're in a position where she should she should be asked to handily. I don't think she's gonna do that. I think this is this is gonna be one of those finishes where we don't know what's gonna it's gonna be like one of those D Q's. But my dream match now is Sasha versus the estp. I think Bianca and Sasha would just absolutely Tear Tear it down. So I want them to put Sasha over clean. I don't think it's going to happen. I think it's going to be a kind of like a one of those little smiles match. I I have a feeling this will be a Ballyshannon against match. I don't think that feud is quite done over with yet. And you know, they have the rematch, but I just don't think that feud is particularly over and you'll see, you know, Bailey coming into another thing that rival that rivalry will probably go on until Royal Rumble, and it should be Sasha bank going over in this match. But I think that WWE still recording Oscar for all that. Putting over she did during the first stages of the new a new era, I guess, the WWE when they had to go down to the Performance Center.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Right. I mean, which is understandable. I still think Sasha goes over but you know, I got to defend Oscar a little bit here like that one Oscars. Yeah, that run that run at NXT was unreal. Like she was cleaning house every night and selling out whether it was takeover the weekly solos on Wednesday on Wednesday nights. Like she was running through everybody. And to me, it was so awful that, you know, you know she ends up winning the Rama 2018 and then basically, it's putting a squash match at WrestleMania 34 I get a Charlotte I'm just like, what was the point of having that undefeated streak and her you're building her you're building a building a building, and I get it you know, you're not able to understand her all the time when she's talking about a promo arm, but you could use that to your advantage. You could have had her talk talk trash to the fans and become that heel. And you know, like say how many times have you heard on her promos when she's out there? Oscars gonna kill you. Like they do that all the freakin time. So guess what the she has she had the fans. Y'all put her your skirt, you know, just Charlotte because you just had to have a flair do it with flair. You just you just had to have that frickin happen. Um, and then now like said now she's being relegated to a jobber, so to speak. And I mean, that's probably a little harsh, but that's just how I feel but I'm pissed off like,

Michael Marcangelo:

she's an afterthought. And she shouldn't be because because she she quite frankly is the most believable female athlete that they have. Right? Because if she walks into like if she walked into a fight with actually, you know, with Shayna baszler Listen, I think Oscar could hold her own and a legit one. And the de w one. That should be a knockdown drag out, fight. So I think you're right, Ray. Oscar is discredited weekly, by the way that she's booked because she should be a killer. She should be Goldberg of the female division.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Right and Or she was and then, you know,

Craig D'Alessandro:

I tried to do a fan of Baylor that blew up quick. Yeah. But you haven't asked him. I asked him to fight anybody

Michael Marcangelo:

moving on with the next match with the new day. Yes, it is versus the street prophets. I think this is going to be for me what they need to do new day, there's nothing that the new day can do that will elevate them further. And subsequently, there's nothing that they can do that will ever lower them, right. So they need the smoke this time, and the street profits need to go over clean. I think that's what should happen. But I think that the new day are going to go over and because they need to push that merchandise still.

Craig D'Alessandro:

I think they're going to do the right thing on this one. I think that the I think as far as merchandising go, the three profits can easily just as well selling all those cup necklaces or just or have WWE have people buy, you know, WWE branded red cups for like 20 bucks to make an extra million bucks off of that. This should be new day putting over the street profits and absolutely should they not nothing. New Days untouchable. Yeah, at this point. They're always It doesn't

Michael Marcangelo:

matter. I mean, this is an old reference, but they're the road warriors. Right? Yeah, they will. They will be the freebirds Yeah, they will be the greatest had by the but by the time that it's all said and done, they will be the greatest tag team slash fashion that's probably ever ever ever been constructed. Now I say tag team, I don't mean fashion because no one's ever going to touch the the freebirds the four horsemen, the end who degeneration x or the shield, right? Even evolution, but as far as tag team wrestling goes, there's just been no better. Especially given that they were handed a pile of shit. I promise you. They were not they were not expected to to succeed. And six or seven years later,

Rayshawn Buchanan:

here they are. I mean, yeah, they've turned in for nothing. I mean, obviously. I mean, this is his solo run, but that last year run, you know, where it's like, you know, give Kofi a chance. And, you know, somebody just even catapulted catapulted a new day as a tag team even more, even though it was a solo run for Kofi. Um, you know, you know, we talked about sometimes, oh, you know, we've heard about racial divide. There was no racial divide that night, that cofee one, like, there's this this big white guy hug the hell out of me. Like we just won the lottery. When Kofi Kingston. That was like, okay, YOLO drunk, but you know, I'm gonna let this slide but I'm just as happy as you watch that went up and go crazy.

Michael Marcangelo:

I was at a watch party in Vegas with with my buddy at the time. And like, when that happened, the whole place went, like we just said, we all I think I spilled a beer. I jumped up and hugged everyone.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

It was it was it was crazy. Like, it's one of my favorite. Actually, it might Yeah, it definitely top three favorite WrestleMania moments for me. And I've seen a whole lot of shows, but it was up there. But no, but it does speak to the match. On Sunday night. I think that, like you said, the smoke needs to be it needs to be up and needs to be filled. And then they need to clear out the new day. Love the new day. Like I love what they've done. You know, they're going to continue to do great things, as long as you know, was in Kingston or tag team. You know, we'd love to have you on the show. But, um, I just think that a start an energy plug. cheapy um, I just I think, yeah, you know, new days is probably going to win, but the street proper said we don't want to get pulled over.

Michael Marcangelo:

And here we have on the last match we're going to talk about we have probably the two most useless titles that are in depth web right now and they shouldn't they shouldn't be because they are two of the most impactful championships in terms of elevating midcard talent to the main event. We have the United States champion, Bobby lashley vs San Jose and the true Intercontinental Champion. I think the last year or so of sammys in has been the best he is I He is such a believable dickhead like this this sleazy heel that that can Russell but doesn't he cheats to win it works great for him. What I think they should do. I think they should let them tear the house down because Bobby lashley can work Jamie's and can work. I would have Sammy saying go over clean because I just think they've never push lashley I don't know why they should have. He should have been more than an NCAA champion. He should have been a WWE Champion way back in 2008. But right now, I think you know, if we're talking about ratings, I think Sami Zayn is more likely to get people to tune in to see to see him get his ass kicked than Bobby lashley used to get people to tune in to see them kick somebody asked if that makes sense. I think Sandy's in she wouldn't a great match what I think's gonna happen. I think it's gonna be a lashley goes over in less than five minutes.

Craig D'Alessandro:

Is there a possible way that Sami Zayn could win this match? Clean without shenanigans going on? I just don't see how it's possible.

Michael Marcangelo:

He should I mean, he hits like three Hello the kicks? Yeah, I think I think he could but that they would never do that because if you want to suspend reality and suspend belief For a second, what you could do is you could use this because lashley is kind of a heel right with with. So what you could do, you could use this as the time where he did everything he could and he could not put Sami Zayn down. This could be the start it should be the start of a great push for same reason as a as a babyface, but they're not going to do that. I guarantee it again, to to rip off rayshawn who ripped off Paul Heyman. This is not a prediction This is a spoiler this will be a squash match. They have been pushing this match as you know, San Jose and somehow outsmarting Bobby lashley into a victory and you're pulling me into your into your atmosphere fair? Where I just think I don't know five minute match maybe

Unknown:

it'll be it'll be Bobby lashley going over.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

I had a hard time putting down most of this match cuz I'm not gonna lie I didn't care too much for this match. Um, you know, as we just we just stated a few moments ago but I feel like just for the sake of the conversation I feel like lastly To me it's actually I felt the other way the other way around. Lastly, should we put over on I love this heart business fashion lobby Saturday Alexander on you know I felt kind of got kind of buried into a five live but such Alexander my guy Shelton Benjamin ain't no stopping mean like man like people forget I mean he probably had a top five raw match of all time Michael so even though he got sent out the frickin ring that that oh my god like I was just

Michael Marcangelo:

I was saying I was there

Rayshawn Buchanan:

yeah and insane so it was it was just it was crazy. Um we forget how great of athletes Shelton Benjamin was it is um, and you know, MVP shouts MVP for bringing yourself like, um, you know, those battles? Yeah. When Matt Hardy in the late 2000s footwear and it's so funny for the US title. Right? That was that was a really great rivalry you know, and then it you know, they become the Titan champions you know, and you see him holding the titles and going on with the dog doing the swish motion but and you're right laughs they should have been more than a CW champion obviously. Um, you know, because it did the same thing with Matt Hardy they certain guys just don't get the push to get but you know once again another podcast arm last issue when they should put them over. And you know, who knows maybe this continues to propel to her business, but I feel like they are really good faction. And hopefully my guy ricochet can join them soon, too. Good. I really love him ricochet is doing too and I felt like he kind of got the run of the deal too, after beating Samoa Joe and issuing rules about a year ago, so that needs to change.

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree. Let's I think in this match, you have the opportunity to either catapult or establish two really, really, really really great workers and good characters. I just don't I do not think that they're going to take the time to either buy

Craig D'Alessandro:

to put money on I'd say retribution gets involved. It's

Rayshawn Buchanan:

weird also, I love that idea too. I love love love Ollie. Love what they're doing with that? Um, can I feel like he kind of Kofi took his Konerko spotlight in a way last year at the mission Chambal sir you know an Elimination Chamber lashes so I feel like now okay like all right you know you paid your dues so to speak you know you healed your your good from injury All right, let's see what you do with this and I think they're having a really good really good start to this so they got

Unknown:

a really bad debut right now out that was bad.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

But they also you got to build them like they built Nexus you have to

Unknown:

Yeah, another Nexus

Rayshawn Buchanan:

you got to try can't say that you got you got to try like for the ratings for the like that that idea how they built them was phenomenal. It was a terrible ending but uh but you you have to you have to do something like that maybe that's how they get it right you didn't get it right but next is how you ended ask that data that storyline maybe you get the storyline right where you continue to put them over and they'd become what the Nexus couldn't be at times.

Craig D'Alessandro:

Yeah at the tails all this time in wrestling now with factions that start well almost never end well. Well, then great because this this faction started off terribly. So.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yes, right. Exactly. Right.

Michael Marcangelo:

Well, for the terribly so in keeping with this very serious theme. We know the three of us and thinking about this for a while, we wanted to put down our top Survivor Series moments or matches. Okay, let's just get this out of the way. First, the most infamous moment in Survivor Series history. And during a match, it was the screwjob that happened in 1997 in Montreal, Quebec, Canada, when Bret Hart, who was leaving for WCW the next day refused to drop the title on a pay per view in his home country of Canada. If you didn't want to lose to Shawn Michaels, Shawn, who is my favorite wrestler of all time was a notorious asshole at this point in time, right? We all understand. So the famous line that was uttered by a triple agent and you know, the meeting before is, you know, if Brett's not going to do business, fuck them, let's do business forum. And that's what happened. Earl Hebner was was read before he came out to the rain, he was, you know, accosted by by Vince and said, You know, this just, this is what's going to happen. Shawn's gonna put bread in the sharpshooter ring the bell, right. I remember I was washed out with my dad. I was I was nine years old. I could not believe what happened. I mean, first of all, I thought I was like, no way that he actually tapped out, right? I'm nine. So I thought this is you know, still pretty real. Whatever. I knew that they weren't actually hurting each other. But this kind of defied everything. And then when you see Brett spit on Vince, when you see Shawn acting like he was so pissed off when he was leaving the room like you, you will never see a moment like that again. So I don't know if that's any number one on everybody's list, but that's the most infamous.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yeah, I mean, it's not it's obviously the most memorable because of what happened for the business after that. That's not my most memorable survival series moment. But obviously, it's probably the most important one, you know, if you will, because, you know, obviously, the Mr. McMahon characters go from that. And, you know, Shawn Michaels continued to get more heat. You know, then they're more than more than one can handle probably at that time. Um, but I mean, yeah, I mean, I didn't think like, I think of the same lines of Scott Hall did when he had to interview about this, like, I thought it was a work on both sides, like now now looking at it now. Like, as a kid, No, I was just like, man, like, you know, spend on another guy's face like that. You know, my brother told me like, yo, that's the ultimate sign of disrespect. Like, you don't ever do something like that. You know, Bret Hart was his guy. He was a Bret Hart guy, you know, so, it was just like, Wow, awesome. The warrior too. So, um, it was like, wow, okay, this this this is what was going on, so to speak, but, man, um, I thought it wasn't good work like this. No way. How do you let him get you in your finish? You like how do you let them put you in that predicament? How How do you do that? Right. Like, you can have all the documents he wants to wrestling with shadows, which is a phenomenal documentary. Don't get me wrong. What do you want to do beyond the ring? Whatever you want to put out there? How do you let them put you in a predicament where they can use screw you like that. So to me, I feel like Vince's on cemoro has said something to him. Um, or maybe someone else that knew about it on the side to go that's Patterson Briscoe, you know, aka the Yes Men. Seven Days said it was like, hey, like, we're looking to do this, like, you know, can you make your reel but at the same time that he was that animosity? You I don't know if you can like that came from her like a deep dark place like that was? That was 21 years was like, wait a minute, like, I came down from Calgary, Alberta, Canada. I left the heart dungeon. I gave you 14 years in this business. I became the I became the world champion three or four times over, I became the tag team champion with the Heart Foundation. I did I did numbers in the UK. I had one of the best matches at Wembley Stadium back in 92. With the British Bulldog when I put him over for the for the Intercontinental Champion ship. And this is how you do me this how you do me, Vince, man after you type it like that. That's That's it, you know, so that that's what all that came out of, um, you know, made for great TV great content, you know, can you know can have never have much, much of that. Right, right. But yeah, so I was just like, wow, but no, that's not the most, it's not the most memorable moment for me. But it is the most important one.

Michael Marcangelo:

So for the next moment that we have here, it's not as equally as seismic. But I do think that it, it helped establish WWE moving forward in a time where they were struggling to build new stars. And it was Ryback versus CM Punk. I think there was somebody else in that match too, but doesn't even matter. The shields debuts in 2012. And they absolutely just came out of nowhere and they set that industry on fire. I remember them putting right back to the table, the lights go, you don't even know who these guys are. You've never seen anything like that before. Right. And I think that moment just based on what they all went on to be world champions in the WWE. And then Seth Rollins, it might be the best wrestler, uh, you know, with AJ Styles in the mix, obviously right now, but of the last 10 years. Absolutely,

Rayshawn Buchanan:

absolutely. Yeah. I mean, that that's, it was amazing to see that moment happen. You know, I was, you know, I was a meathead, you know, I liked I liked right back, you know, um, you know, feed feed me more baby that that was that's my slogan, you know, feed me more, whether it's chicken, french fries, whatever, you know, feed me more. So now that was my that was guy but no, like you said they came in they took they took the rest of world by storm. And I think Michael Cole kind of talked about them being from like Florida Valley. I might even call NXT by then but, you know, talking about, you know, oh no, that's the sealer who would they type thing and then like you said next thing you know, they go on a two year run, let's say you know, they their first big matches at WrestleMania 29 you know,

Michael Marcangelo:

I don't know I'm gonna start with their their first big match was the next the next month the TLC was a teen Oh, and I back in a TLC match and I couldn't believe it. I mean, that was one of the one of the best matches so if you have the network if you have YouTube, whatever, go back and watch that match because it was it was electrifying.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Right so sorry that the one I remembered I forgot I forgot what TLC measure clearly. Um, but yeah, that I remember the WrestleMania thing because you know, they're coming down my life and it's like, delta echo and shield 10s and 10s they're like wishes I mean, Ellison don't change Roman Reigns music like I love when he goes out to that I love the day came out so it I thought it was great. Um, and that you know, this is a bit of a hot take if we can have hot takes on our show is going to be conversational, but I'm the only one out to 3d I think should have been World Champion really a Dean Ambrose um, and maybe because it was like luster and stone cold said so he backed me up. So I feel pretty confident in saying that, um, his run just wasn't it wasn't memorable. Roman Reigns has had a good has good runs, has had good runs. Seth Rollins has had great runs. I mean, my god for so many of 31 he went he you know, he's the money in the bank. He runs down, you hear the music cued up and Levi's Stadium, he runs down to wish me thank God he didn't have a title. So now money and fold out have been crazy. Um, because that rep as long as hell you know, sign up to the prom sign players though. But man like I was yo that that man was crazy. So it's like, I don't have any memorable moments like that with Dean Ambrose. Like I felt like he was the one that kind of got squashed a little bit.

Michael Marcangelo:

Here's what I'll tell you just to convert your just to kind of battle your hot take here. He should have been the first World Champion out of those three. He was the talker. He was the I mean, if you remember all those promos, when they had their own hand handheld camera, he was the guy and they just didn't know how to manage him. Craig, you're gonna say something. Wrestling needed the shield at that time because of this particular time in wrestling. It was very, very, very stale. It was a CM Punk versus right back every week, john cena vs Riot back every week. You know, it was just you know, bad news Barrett versus the same guy every single week. There was nothing new was the same matches every pay per view. They needed some kind of chaos and the shield was that and you know, having Dean and having Dean Ambrose face The Undertaker on a Smackdown almost immediately after they debuted and then putting the undertaker through a table. Yeah, putting him out. goes on. The other thing that was that was on the European tour after 29. And that, again, that just that just absolutely cemented them. So that's a huge moment that again, I used to credit them when credit is due. That's an organic moment that they created amount of stars that they created, right. I think the next one, you know, we can't get through this top moments or matches without talking about, obviously the debut of the dead man. And in 1990 when he walked out with brother love, he was introduced by Ted DiBiase. I mean, I remember Roddy Roddy Piper going back, listen to it on on commentary, just absolutely selling the hell out of it. Right. You've never seen anything like this guy. But the most important moment happened the next year when he beat Hulk Hogan, who is still 1991 this is one year removed from the from the whole Cogan Ultimate Warrior Nash. Yeah. And in skydome, like this was still peak, or close to peak Hogan and WWE web half the time, you know, shout out to the World Wildlife Fund. And now and now you have now you have this guy who's still pretty green right in terms of WWF web standards, and he beat Hogan handily. They tried to set up a flair versus Hogan match said that would ultimately never happen, but I wasn't. I was three so I'm not gonna pretend that I was there or that I remembered going back now though, and watching it that's something that you just don't see happen very often.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

It definitely was a passing of the torch, you know, even very early in his career. You know, obviously you know from being me mark Calloway in WCW. And you know doing stuff with me mark losses and you know, doing stuff with den theater along the way, you know, so, Damon, yeah, that's right. Good. Paul, you dangerously I'm sorry, my bad. So I'm a figure how long he's been in the business crazy. But yeah, yeah, I think it definitely was the passing of the torch. And, you know, it really set up what became the greatest streak and all the sports entertainment. Because obviously, you know, this is first one in WrestleMania eight and it just goes on and on and on and on. All the way to 2014. So, yeah, it was it was phenomenal to um, you know, to see you know, I mean, why go back and watch it. I was I was I was you were three I was one you know, saw me You know, my brother. Probably watching By watchkit he's older than me by watched it at the time but yeah, definitely wasn't passing up the torch and, you know, Hogan put over what became like the biggest star in my opinion. So, I know Craig does that otherwise, but those are the two guys obviously when you think about Vince like who he created as a character, um, there's no two bigger stars in the know. So, outside the Austin, maybe

Michael Marcangelo:

another debut that happened six years after Undertaker's again, we didn't know what we had here. We see this young, you know, full of piss and vinegar. Kind of weird looking rocky maivia. And in this in this Survivor Series match, he would that's obviously Survivor Series 1996, which was a loaded card. He had Austin versus Brett, you had psycho Sid versus Shawn, that was the that was the day that the boyhood dream came to an end. But this this debut in particular, he is the most famous star probably ever, like right now in the world. He He is the only star that I can that I can tell you. That's the rock Dwayne Johnson, that actually outgrew the wrestling business, right? Hulk Hogan is a huge star. He's nothing without wrestling, right. Dwayne The Rock Johnson is his his his own thing. He I mean, he just makes millions upon millions on movies now and to look back at this match and see when he debuted and just kind of, you know, he was just so green. And it was shortly after this the crowd was chanting die, Rocky die. And they brought him into the nation, which then just propelled him to the corporation, the people's champion, and you know, read on about you but I definitely could not smell what the rock was cooking this day.

Craig D'Alessandro:

I'm laughing because I remember that promo when he first joined the nation domination. The way the rock talks just when he's cutting a promo, it just makes her laugh. Yeah, when he's talking about some serious because like, I remember when I first debuted and everyone chanted die rocky die the way the rock does it he, I think that I think eventually Johnson is gonna eventually challenge him for his his box office, you know, no sparks off his wallet. But as as far as its as far as you're gonna have that I couldn't agree with you more. No one has. You know, one has no one wrestling has said that they've had a more impactful career out of the ring than the rock has maybe some cold, no outside extent. But it's it's the rock and then everybody else.

Unknown:

Yep. Yeah. I

Rayshawn Buchanan:

mean, no, but like you said, Craig like to me. Siena is the only guy said Shipley's made some terrible movies. As much as I love the MS. Ms made some terrible movies through like, um, you know, Shawn Michaels, you know, didn't make any teaching movies either, like, so there is the rocky scene, and then it really is everybody else. Um, even though I love The Expendables, but that just wasn't that wasn't on the same level as what the rockers done, but no, I couldn't smell what he was cooking either. Like, it probably was still boiling, and 96, obviously, and I just feel like, you know, him joined the nation really was the best thing that could have happened for him joining a professional like Ron said, this was the first ever, you know, African American champion, you know, and you know, and in WWE history, so I felt like when that, you know, putting him with him, and then, you know, given given the spotlight to young Mark Henry as well. The Godfather, he had a Godfather, you know, Halo Brown? Well, I mean, the Godfather had kind of had already had a little bit of a run during Thomas shango called Papa shango, and commas a comma. Comma was this character with um Oh, God.

Craig D'Alessandro:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, yeah. Huge, huge. The Undertaker.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yeah, exactly. So yes, I do. I do remember that a little bit. But, um, I and then obviously do a little brown obviously. So, you know, they um, and it wasn't wasn't Ken Shamrock a part of that too. At some point. I thought oh, my heart. Oh, my heart. Okay. Okay. No, yeah. Um, so it was like yeah, that was man what a what a guy when he

Unknown:

became a black heart. Right. It's okay to kind of go

Michael Marcangelo:

order the next big event that happens in Survivor Series that we can talk about because we are we're is is the invasion angle comes to a close at Survivor Series. She doesn't want just for you guys out there. 2000 you know, March I think is March 23 2001. WWF. Bought WCW they bought their competition. The Monday night wars were officially over. And then they did probably what was the most sought after storyline in the history of wrestling and invasion angle, right? They had WCW stars. Ew stars come in and really challenge what was happening on WWF. The problem here was Hogan Hall, Nash staying Goldberg, all the big stars in WCW, all had guaranteed contracts from Time Warner. So they just all sat at home it didn't come through. So what we got was a very washed, washed down version of WCW that came in, and really never really posed a threat at all to the WWF. Right, I think we can all look back at that the best moment of the entire invasion angle. They squashed it instantly was when DDP was revealed as a stalker for Sarah, The Undertaker's wife. The whole place went nuts. And then they and then all of a sudden, she beats him on rock.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yeah, but that that to me wasn't the best. I mean, that's one of the more memorable, memorable moments. No, I can't speak tonight. But yeah, one of the most moments I remember. But I mean, it's got to be the Booker T stone cold. You know, vignette. And so mark, you're like, you know, man, I think about you and me, Mike. Like, I feel like we we have that type of moment. But you know, God, God, no gray and then he would have no car and so

Michael Marcangelo:

on jackass.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Exactly. So I just felt like that was that's easily my favorite moment. I remember Kurt Angle winning in his hometown, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, you know, beating Booker T for the world. championship. You

Michael Marcangelo:

need Stone Cold Steve Austin every thought. Yeah,

Rayshawn Buchanan:

exactly. So yeah, doubt that was that was awesome. Um, but with the invasion angle one, I feel like it went too short. But like you said, it has to be because of, you know, even on a web site, like, you know, Triple H was out during that time. Was it mean, that led to the greatest comeback ever on Monday Night Raw? That was phenomenal. We did you know, it was great. Shout out to you too, because that was the promo music. You know. That's that's made me into Paris on earlier so that can be in the show notes. Right. On. Yeah. It was like said it was worth down for that exact reason. I remember the Paul Heyman promo on on SmackDown you know that that was that was phenomenal. He's like, you know, there's nobody Desmond better on the mic interrupt the ringing the Paul Heyman. It's not even close, in my opinion. Um, but I mean, far, as far as the evasion angles go. I feel like the star that helped them most probably was Booker T.

Unknown:

Jericho, right. I mean,

Rayshawn Buchanan:

yeah, I mean, well, I mean, Jericho would have been Jericho anyways, because I mean, his first night he comes out, did they haven't done a promo with the rock like dice? So did that let me know what Vince thought of him immediately. Like, look, you've been hiding this. You know, you've been hiding a WCS Lionheart. And you know, you're on Thursday night thunder and Monday night. nytro. Like, yeah, you've had some memorable moments with a TV champion. And so that's great, but he hasn't come out. Welcome to raw is Jericho and it just explodes like that was phenomenal.

Michael Marcangelo:

You watch those old you watch those WC WCW promos with Chris Jericho though the best promos I've ever seen. Oh yeah.

Unknown:

Yeah, the Dean malenko one linko promo Yeah,

Rayshawn Buchanan:

yeah, it was phenomenal. Yeah, so

Michael Marcangelo:

man I'm thousand holds number 137 armbar

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yes, you know so yeah, you know that that's that's true, but I think side by side I should have said on both sides but for the WCW side I think by far was Booker T. I think people saw his personality um, you know they would hear the original golden truth yep um you know so that that was you know young sighs comedic side we saw his you know, abilities really just to entertain and you know, he had his own even though Triple H had to squash him but that's it once again another another pocket

Unknown:

King walk ah

Rayshawn Buchanan:

yeah I love that gave me by the way so that was great. And that

Michael Marcangelo:

but that but that's the only chance Have you ever got to be at the end of WWE which is

Rayshawn Buchanan:

19 Yeah, yeah should have been he should have been watching tribulation so suck it up, put them over

Michael Marcangelo:

the invasion angle was one of the most sought after and most poorly executed angles. I don't I don't really blame them for doing it because they needed to capitalize on it. What now in retrospect, I think they should have done I think we can all agree if they just waited a year and T's WCW longer because in February of 2002 you have the NW o and in July of 2002. You have Shawn Michaels he is WWE right. So now you have him and triple A's that they can they can go against they could go against the old boys in the click it would have been a story that wrote itself. Which brings me to Survivor Series 2002 we see the first ever Elimination Chamber match. And that was absolute carnage. That was Shawn Michaels second match back after a four year hiatus and you know if you guys have never watched his first match back against Triple H at SummerSlam 2002 it's probably one of the greatest matches ever for a guy that could not do it and had not done in four years he went out there and just tore it down and Survivor Series thousand two when when he comes off the top of the of the chamber and lands and lands on Triple H for the elbow. Sweet chin music. I just thought like that was the Jim Ross saying Why do you believe in miracles, all of that? That he's my guy, and to see him come back after four years and look that good. And in the first ever type of match like that? I thought it was that that's, that's one of the top moments for me.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yeah, for me that see. So that's my number one moment. Like, sorry, like, I know my chosen job. That's cool. This is my number one moment, like, Eric Bischoff introduces this new Elimination Chamber. You also have my guy, Rob Van Dam, who is to me the best midcard guy of all time. I'm not debating argue with your mother. No argue with me. That that was his he was phenomenal. And to kind of champion few times over like he was just great. Like he entertained me every night.

Craig D'Alessandro:

Yeah, he had the worst five star frog splash he ever did not

Rayshawn Buchanan:

match. Oh, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he

Unknown:

did. He actually he did. Yeah. Crush Triple H's trachea.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yep. Yeah, well, but you know, but um, I yeah, that that that match was just was awesome, man. Like, um, to see, you know, to see him come back and triumph like that. I was just like, man, like this is? I'm not sure we'll have another moment like that. Um, so obviously, like you said to be off that and I mean, man, the story to him and hundreds hold. Really for about two years man. It culminated at WrestleMania 20 in that show, but then match against I'm a Crispin won. Yeah, there you go. Um, I'm actually Vince. I don't want to bring him up on Yeah, so yeah, so that Yeah, that was a phenomenal match. But yeah, they put on a hell of a show man. And I just I don't know if there's anything else that would top that even though I love the 505 message next year in 2003 with my guides I've seen it was white hot by then. But man like that, that that first Elimination Chamber match. I don't know like there's nothing that's top two for me to survive a semi sense

Michael Marcangelo:

yet audible mentioned is the five on five then from the following year. It was team team of mine is team Austin vs team Bish off where Shawn again is down to the last guy he was Yes, three people, and Battista comes out of the crowd of nowhere power bombs and, and Austin has to retire and he's no longer the CO GM. Moving on. Sting. Yes. 2014 Hell yeah. I remember you know, this match. I was like, I don't even like dogs Sigler. Like he's he's having a hell of a night do but like, there's something just needs to happen. And then when you hear that Crow, and you just see him finally walk out. I don't care how old he is. This is the fucking coolest thing I've ever seen that

Craig D'Alessandro:

unfortunately, they had kind of ruin this because they had announced earlier in the summer that sting had kind of signed a contract because he did things with toys and stuff. But to finally it, it doesn't matter. You could have told me you told me straight to my face. That sting was going to debut that night I would like no he's not right? No, he's not. He's I have been waiting since 1999 when they bought when WCW when WWE bought WCW and sting had to set out because of what happened with Time Warner and I was like okay when that's over, so come to WWE. He goes to TNA for six seven years has a great career and a great run a great one the TNA Victory Road and that victory row and then the thing of Jeff Hardy happens right exactly and you know, things things there for a little while not eventually like everyone else in TNA daily and then for a while just kind of limbo you know, we figured you know stings in this myth things and As of early to mid 50s at this point yeah, I just I mean I just remember that the crow hits the music hits and they exactly and that and that and then it fucking happens

Michael Marcangelo:

hunter did what he what he can do better than anybody else as he can tell a complete story with with no words just his face the look on his face when he saw him walking down to that ring was on believable and for a guy that you know I was always a WWE guy was never a WCW guy sting deserved a run he didn't get the run that he deserved because what happened we all know that but that moment no one can ever take that away from him Nope.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Right and I mean even with that too right I don't My only disappointment that because obviously you know Chuck which is one of my favorite favorites of all time but I hate that it was great why and take her at a at a at a at 31 at WrestleMania 31 as opposed to arm you know as opposed to staying in Undertaker if I just didn't want to take it would have been the dream match. And you know, I really wish that that has happened but unfortunately it didn't. But you know that's always a whatever message we can always talk about.

Unknown:

I'm still not convinced that's not gonna happen. But if

Rayshawn Buchanan:

I mean I mean when they when they happened

Craig D'Alessandro:

at this point? I don't see it happening in a match I see it happening is a cinematic match like The Undertaker half AJ Styles. Yeah that would that that'd be I'll be I'll be here for it. That would be the I mean sting is what 62 now with a broken neck The Undertaker zyo on his last legs, they can make a cinematic map happen. I'll buy it. I do not want them in the same room together. Yeah,

Michael Marcangelo:

no I agree with that. And then I think the last moment for Survivor Series before this the show winds down is Survivor Series 2016 Brock Lesnar at this point had been on a run for two years after beating Undertaker WrestleMania no one had touched him no one could touch him. And then Goldberg comes back after 12 years 12 years he was given four weeks notice that they wanted him on this show. And he beat Brock in less than four minutes and the hope and I'm not a Goldberg guy I marked out hard for that I couldn't believe what I was saying.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

No I mean before getting into the match like his the promo Did you know the the warfare thing and you know of Michael Cole who was super cheesy to me but you know Goldberg and you just hit people in the background Yeah, and you hit a crowd goal Yeah, it gets me he still to me has my favorite entrance ever like I just I love coming out the coming out to the security world your dressing room or whatever. And the unit young Donna Anna you know he comes out with the with that. Yeah, with that Pyro and he kicks bosses his way through it like like, to me that's just still the coolest thing ever, in my opinion. Um, and you know, and that that promo was just awesome. And it's like, well, maybe I have one more as taking me maybe I have one more jackhammer me maybe I have one more championship run in me and man did he ever he came down. he smacked Brock Lesnar. He came back and fast lane and a few few months later, and he beat Kevin Roma's. 123. And the rest is history, but like that, that was that was awesome. Like, I'm getting hyped because I was waiting for you to talk about this. Like, I love Goldberg. Um, and I say I like Brock Lesnar, too, but it was just like, they were just Thunderbolt Goldberg like, you know, 133 No, 170 you know, like, I just that's just always stuck in my brain. Um, because I was watching as a kid on Thursday night Thunder or Monday night, Monday night row. So, um, yeah, that that was a great moment and, you know, gopers Oh, God, I couldn't came back and did it. Like, you're not gonna believe Matt Hardy or someone coming back and knocking him out in five minutes. Like, that's just not that would have been believable.

Craig D'Alessandro:

So here's the thing about that, though. With Goldberg, Goldberg, probably if you do the ranking of the best actual wrestlers, people who perform in the ring, technically wise, probably one of the worst wrestlers of all time. Sure. He had built a career in WCW. And the WWE just squashing people. Yeah, that's destroying people. And then he takes 12 years off, he comes back and then he faces Brock Lesnar and his first match, and the Pete and then the doctor was, you know, it'll probably be a good match between these two ago about 510 minutes he squashes him. Try he destroys Brock Lesnar not once, not twice, but three times Yeah, he Yeah, I've watched him and this is Brock Lesnar, wash john cena. Yep. This is peak progress, right.

Michael Marcangelo:

So I think this just goes to show you is that even when a card looks lackluster to go into, you really just never know what's going to happen. That's one of the reasons why I think the three of us love professional wrestling, we do know, obviously, it's just like any other show that you watch on television, it is scripted, but when they do suspend the belief for that one second or that one special appearance, it makes it all worthwhile. So guys, thank you so much for taking the time to join us say this was cheap heat presented by the MTP network. Enjoy Survivor Series and we'll be talking to you soon.

Craig D'Alessandro:

Thanks for listening to this episode of missing the point. missing the point is a one hour weekly to our monthly podcast recapping the biggest stories in the world of sports with the New England flavour. The show notes and transcript of today's episode can be found in the description box below. And on our website, MTP show.com. If you're new to the show, please consider subscribing. It's the easiest way to see when we publish new episodes. We are on iTunes, Spotify, Google and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to rate us and leave a review of any of our shows. We always appreciate your feedback. Also, be sure to follow us on all of our social medias. All of our links will be in the show notes. And be sure to check out our brand new website WWW dot MTP show calm that's MTP show.com. For missing the point. I'm Craig D'Alessandro. We'll talk to you next time.