#21 - Patriots and NFL Coaches on the Hot Seat

Craig D'Alessandro: 0:24

On this episode of missing the point, after dominating the Chargers, the Patriots are back to 500. But just four games left in the season, and still a long shot for the playoffs to the Patriots actually do more harm than good to their future. We'll also touch on the rest of the NFL through week 13 and talk about coaches on the hot seat. As we've already seen three coaches fired the season. Now we could potentially see up to six more all that more of Joe Bob and Ray Shawn. But first some housekeeping missing the point is a one hour weekly podcast recapping the biggest stories in the world of sports with the New England flavor. The show notes a transcript of today's episode can be found in the description box below, as well as on our website, www dot MTP show.com. If you're new to the show, consider subscribing. It's the easiest way to see we publish new episodes. We are on iTunes, Spotify, Google and wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to rate us and leave a review of any of our shows. We always appreciate your feedback. Let us know how we're doing. Also be sure to follow us on all of our social medias. All of our links will be in the show notes and check out our brand new website WWW dot MTP show calm that's MTP show.com. And now, this is missing the point. But it's all relative.

Joe Malkin: 1:53

Welcome into Episode 21 of missing the point. My name is Joel Malkin joined by rayshawn Buchanan, Bob Kelly. And as always, our executive producer Craig D'Alessandro, guys. We have a lot to talk about in the NFL this week, as we get into week 14 as we're finishing week 13 as we record this, but guys, how are you both doing tonight, Bobby?

Rob Kelly: 2:20

I'm doing great man. excited to be back for another week of missing the point. We got a lot of good stuff coming up. So I'm just excited to be here as always excited toxin football.

Unknown: 2:32

It's gotta go. Ray, how you doing?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 2:34

Yeah, I'm good. You know, y'all know, personally has been kind of crazy for me lately. So you know, so it was good to be around y'all and talk to y'all and, you know, get another show out there. So, you know, like Bobby said, we have a lot of great things coming in. You know, it starts tonight. So let's get to it.

Joe Malkin: 2:49

Yeah, and as we talked about the end of week 13 and we move into week 14, we can tell you a little bit of that stuff. Check out our last two episodes. Dave Clark gave us a great quiz show last week. And two weeks ago before Thanksgiving, we spoke to former VP of officiating for the NFL Dean blandino. And next week, thanks to our executive producer Craig D'Alessandro. We're going to talk to Boston sports reporter Abby chin who will be coming up and we also have our NBA preview show that will be coming out on opening day. And this Sunday on the 13th is our live show. So as the guy said, we have so much coming up. But one of the big things we definitely want to plug and tell you guys about is the interview we have coming up with Abby chin next week on Thursday the 17th. So that's going to be a fun one, guys. But let's get into the NFL. And let's start with at least our our hometown team, the New England Patriots, the team that Bobby was a fan of and then jump ship as everyone knows. But let's talk about the New England Patriots and what has transpired in their season. Especially yesterday where they beat the LA chargers 45 to nothing on the road. At so phi stadium. And guys, interesting day for the Patriots. Finally, they click in all three segments of the game on offense. We saw cam look fairly good. The defense looked awesome. And special teams gunner Olszewski getting a punt return for a touchdown. So Ray, what was your take on yesterday's 45? Nothing went over the Chargers for patriot. So

Rayshawn Buchanan: 4:32

I can't say that. Cam had a great game. I mean, obviously, I know he had three total touchdowns but you know, to go 12 to 18 for 69 yards, and basically have a you know another performance where he has under 100 passing yards. To me that's still unacceptable. But right now I feel like it's really becoming 2011 Denver Bronco wish and what I mean by that is, you know tchibo were stolen seven for 15 and like 70 yards, but you know, I remember the game he had against Denver when he runs it at the end of the at the end of the game and you know, obviously they beat the Steelers and a wild card round which was you know, that was that was a crazy game at that time. So I just felt like that's what that's what it looks like is happening. It's happening with us and you know, I listened I didn't think we would be 66 this late in the year on you know the way they had been playing with a last three or four And now they've won four to five or something like that if I'm not mistaken. So, um, I was I was pleased to see everybody kind of come together. Devin Mccourty was moving on that on that block kick. So, you know, I was like well Okay, did the old man still got a little low a little juice nose leg so, but yeah, I was excited to see them blow it out and I just felt like it was a window said hey, you know we are on our last layer so to speak, but we're not dead yet. So,

Joe Malkin: 5:53

yeah, 130 passing yards total. Jared stenum was two for 3 61 yards and a touchdown. And you mentioned cam with the three total touchdowns one through the year two on the ground. gunner Olszewski and N'keal Harry had the two touchdowns receiving. I agree with you. And just to kind of rebut what you said there about the 2011 Broncos were Tebow would have 70 yards will also have to remember that Belichick dad was the head coach of the Naval Academy for years. So we already know that he has a soft spot for the triple option, which has been working for the last couple of weeks at least. But Bobby, the non resident Patriots fan, what are your What are your takeaways from yesterday's patriots chargers game,

Rob Kelly: 6:38

that Bill Belichick will in forever dominate and eat rookie quarterbacks for breakfast? It's something that I I don't want to say forgot about. But I didn't remember how evident It really is. He gets in their heads. If these guys don't have experience, he just eats them alive. And he ate her bird alive yesterday. Absolutely, absolutely killed him. The other thing is, I don't think enough can be said about Damien Harris and his coming out party that's been happening the last few weeks. I think that has a lot to do with what's been happening. You look at it, right? You used to say, four or five weeks ago, when Damien Harris first came out like this dude, he just runs hard, man. And I feel like that's something that they were missing these past, but those first five, six weeks, I think that's something that really helps his team because I don't think that they, the way to beat them be too successful isn't necessarily that triple option to me. It's to just pound the ball down their throat. That's what they did the last two years of Brady and that's what made them successful. So when they get back to that, that when you see them having a success, like they did yesterday,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 7:54

but set to add to that right. I think so obviously, you know, we talked about earlier in the season, it was gonna have a top five are rushing tackle even top 10 and they've been top five. So that's clearly a strength like that's, you know, whether it's Damien Harris, Paris, Sonia Michele, JJ Taylor has had some success when he's played early in the year like, they have to do it like that. Because obviously, they're not going to have enough of an outside threat to continuously do that. But I felt like we need a mix of what we saw, I guess, Miami, Seattle from cam in order for them to be successful and possibly even win out, which is kind of crazy out there. They're gonna win out and go tennis sex, like, I do think they can go nine and seven? I do. I think that's possible. Um, I don't trust that the Office of bills, you know, a lot of those guys have not been there. And granted, not everyone on the Patriots had to get there. I'm not saying that. That's the case. But I just I just I trust bill in those moments more than I would Flores or Shawn McDermott. And you know, the telltale sign will be Thursday when they face the LA Rams. So I think if they get by the Rams, I think they win a couple of more games and get to that night when market and season nine to seven.

Joe Malkin: 9:00

And that's what's interesting about this West Coast Swing, right, I thought this was the coolest part of their schedule. Now you have these two teams playing in the same city. So the Patriots go out to play the Chargers on Sunday, and they're just going to hang out in LA for three, four days until they play the Rams and then they'll they'll head home. So my my look at this and Bobby you kind of said it. Or you did say it that Bill Belichick is now 20 and five in his career against rookie quarterbacks, which is unbelievable. And I said this to you guys before this game, and I knew that this was going to be a big part of it. And we'll get to this point a little bit later in the show, but I'll kind of tease it a little bit is that some of the coaching decisions on the charger side of the ball, which was already being questioned coming into this game, were very interesting. And I think this team may have had a better chance with tyrod Taylor under center and that's not to say that Justin Herbert isn't a better quarterback. But they Bill Belichick does have a tendency to rip apart. Rookie cubies and he did that again this week and got a huge win out of it. And one of the biggest things is that that I took from what you said Bobby was running downhill and running through people and they did do that right Damien Harris 80 yards Cam Newton 48 Sony Michele had 35 Dante Moncrief head for rushing so there's there's a name from from Indianapolis Colts past now wearing a patriots uniform. And that's that's really what it is. It's really That RPO, that new style option, not the triple option that we still see the Naval Academy running with the wing T and all the other stuff. So that that is their style, and they can get away with not throwing for 300 yards like they used to. And Ray, I don't think cam looks right. I don't think he's thrown the ball. Right? I don't think I don't think he's totally healthy. And I don't mean from a COVID standpoint, I mean, from a him standpoint, from a physical standpoint. So I think that's why we're seeing it. But I think we're finally seeing now. And Bobby kind of mentioned this earlier in the season with the Patriots, where they give it time. Because he's also said this with other teams where you're trying to change the culture, you're trying to change things about a team. And really that is what's happening with the Patriots, you're trying to form a whole new team and offense around one guy. So as long as they can remain consistent, and and Josh, and cam can work well together, I think we're gonna see some more success. But at six and six, this team is now in third place or isn't still in third place. I shouldn't say now, because the Jets stink, but they're in third place. three games out of the division lead with five to play. I'm sorry, four to play. What do we think about the Patriots chances of I don't want to say winning the division, because that probably won't happen because that bill's team is very good. But what do we think of the Patriots chances of getting into the playoffs as they are currently the number 10 seed in the AFC right.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 11:51

Yeah, so I mean, I just alluded to it a little bit a few minutes ago, but I do think they find a way to become 97. And I do think some teams that are ahead of them right now. So you know, we're keeping an eye on right now on the Baltimore and, and Dallas game, because, you know, we have the tiebreaker because Baltimore we have the tiebreaker against the Raiders as well. So, it's like if those those two teams slipped, and we find a way to rise up, then you know, not to sell a turn from the focus. So we don't want to rise up back down, we want to do better than that. But, um, I just think that if they find a way to get in there, it just sucks because if Kansas City becomes stays the two seed, then you know, we'll you know, we'll definitely be going home in the first round. But, um, and Bobby may be surprised when I was when I say this, because I've been talking about them being good all year. But, um, I would actually like our chances if we face Pittsburgh in the first round, I really would. Um, I just think that because of the injuries they've had, and, um, I also think it's in their head that they've never been nice when it matters. I you know, and I think that, if knowing we have found a way to get in to be a seven seed, and they went out to highest field, and we run the ball, the way that we can run it, um, I think they have a chance to lease you know, you know, still still one, um, and it'd be like, 2001 all over again. So, um, that that's just why I see you. So I think they finished best and 97 um, could it be 10? to six? Sure. I mean, that is possible, because that's, that's how many games they have forget if left on the schedule, but I just think realistically, it'd be like another seven or eight.

Joe Malkin: 13:28

So looking at the rest of the Patriots schedule, you mentioned the last four games. They take on the Rams on the road on Thursday Night Football. Then on the 20th of December, they're in South Florida to play Miami. On the 28th. They are at home to take on the bills and on January 3, they're at home to take on the Jets. So it's all speculation. I could see them getting two of those four games. I think they as much as Belichick is known for beating up on rookie quarterbacks I think he also has Why is the Rams coach Sean McVeigh, he kind of has his number as well.

Rob Kelly: 14:13

And McVeigh just gushes over him every time he sees him.

Joe Malkin: 14:16

That's true. And if and if two starts for the dolphins, there's another rookie quarterback. So let's see what happens. And I mean it is it is realistic. And I don't want to get ahead of ourselves here because it's the speculation but it is realistic that the Patriots could go 10 and six, as Ray said and and when needs last four games, three of which are divisional games, and they could finish second in the division and get that wildcard

Rob Kelly: 14:39

that's just the wildest thing ever to me. Honestly, like, you guys, I and you guys know I love to troll but like this honestly isn't even. It's just so it's such a testament to how amazing Bill Belichick really is, you know what I mean? It's just like, I respect that I have for that man as a head coach is above and beyond anyone else. Because when you think about the lack of talent on this team, and the fact that we're sitting here at week 12 and we're talking about a path for this team to go to the playoffs is unbelievable to me. You know what that mean? Like, going into the season like I told you guys, I was like you got I literally told you guys, you were insane to even think That playoffs was a chance like don't even think about it, because you're just getting your hopes up. And you know what I mean? You're just gonna be disappointed and end up in the middle of the draft like I always do. Listen, that doesn't seem to be what's happening because honestly, you look at those games like you just said, Joe. Day, those are winnable games for this patriots team. I honestly think the toughest one for them is if they get by Thursday against the Rams, they're in business. If they can beat the Rams on Thursday, this team is in business because you know, Bill Belichick is not going to let this team and a December game against the bills and the dolphins be no shows. That's not gonna happen. You know, as much as I doubted this team in the beginning of the season. That's just something that right now I don't see happening.

Joe Malkin: 16:08

So this is another thing we talk about on a regular basis. And Bobby, you just said it there. What's interesting about this team in this franchise is at least from we've all kind of agreed on oh seven, at least from oh seven to 2019. It was really bill and Tom Wright. Prior to oh seven we still said you know, bills. Yeah, Tom's good. But bill is has put this team where it needs to be in this year. Bobby, it's not like you're talking about Cam Newton leading this team to the playoffs or, or the defense leading this team to the playoffs. We're all talking about Bill Belichick. Like when we when we talk about the Patriots versus the Rams. It's because it's because of how enamored as you said, McVeigh is with Bill. When we talk about the dolphins it's because it's one of his former assistant coaches, who they have already beat once the season and are now starting a rookie quarterback. So we're again looking at Bill's record against rookie quarterbacks. We talked about the bills. And we talked about Bill's mind games with McDermott up there in Buffalo. And then we talk about the jets and how bad they are. So yeah, there's a path, right? So I mean, we have to, we have to give this team a chance. And Bobby, I remember after that, but after that Denver game, Ray and I were about to hop in the car and come up and pay you a visit in New York, because of how you were talking about this. And but you know, looking back on it later, you weren't wrong, right, we're wrong. And so it and we're going to talk about coaches a lot more in our next segment. But one thing we have to bring up and we have to look at from a non patriot standpoint, and look at it from an NFL standpoint, because we talked about this in our meeting last night. We've talked about it. And at other points, we can talk about good coaches, we talked about Mike Tomlin last night, who the Pittsburgh Steelers head coach, they just got their first loss against the Washington football team, we talk about Andy Reed, who is also one of the best coaches of our generation, we talked about Pete Carroll, who's just a motivator and a very good coach. But none of those guys could do more. And I'm not saying this as a Patriots fan. This is as an NFL fan. None of those guys could do what bill does with the rosters he builds and the adversity that he faces and that you'd be surprised how much adversity a guy with six Super Bowl rings faces. And one thing that he is great at that those other three guys aren't good at that I just mentioned, is clock management. And that's one of the biggest things at the end of the first half and at the end of the game that these guys have to deal with. And Bill's the best at it.

Rob Kelly: 19:00

And I think what really goes to show how this is all built to me is when the Patriots win this year, they win because a game plan and you can see it from the beginning. You know what I mean? Like from from the beginning of that game, you're like, Okay, Patriots are in this game, and they're gonna be in this game the entire time. When when the game plans off and something's wrong, they get smacked, because they're not good. You know what I mean? Like they're not a good football team. So they don't have the talent or any kind of like big play ability to make up for a lack of game plan. So as soon as they get that game plan, right, like you saw it against the Cardinals. They didn't knew how to beat Kyler they they stopped him from running they they they made Kyler beat him with his arm and he couldn't do it. You see what the Ravens Same thing with Lamar. You see it last game against the chargers. You know what I mean? Just rookie quarterbacks when Bill gameplans it's game over guys. It's game over. You know what I mean? So that's why this week to me, is the game if they can win this week, they they actually have a shot. There's a lot that needs to happen. Greg, there's a lot of teams, they need to jump. They need a lot of people to lose, but to have those teams that play. So it's like, you know, it's like it's possible.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 20:21

It is Yeah, and I mean, you're absolutely right in life. It is mind blowing. And like Joe said, like, we definitely was ready to pay you a visit at that after that Denver game. Um, but it's like we, you know, we, I mean, honestly, and I remember saying this, but I was like, I was so mad. I was like, You can't lose a game like this to the team. I don't care how bad your team is now. And you know, to your point about them being in every game, the only game they was out of it from the jump really was the San Fran game, right. So, um, Kansas City day was ended until you know, Brian Moran. You know, the worst quarterback. You look like me out there. You know, so, you know, take that for a soundbite. But that was that that was ridiculous how bad he looked against Kansas City.

Rob Kelly: 21:03

Talking about getting in the car ready to beat someone up though. Yeah. After after that first house?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 21:10

Yeah. I'm like, wait a minute, like you had you had them. You had them? And yes, it took them a homeless faithful out there that believes that he's invincible. And you know, I hate I get it. Bill has done very well against him early in his career. That's just that's, you know, that that's just a ftact. So it's not something where it's like, Oh, ah, you know, he just says dominates now. Um, that that game was there to win. And who knows? Maybe if we had cam runners homerun players instead of Hoyer instead them who knows. But I want to circle the wagons back to how we didn't we touched on it briefly. We talked about those numbers now. Um, yes. It was in a blowout? Yes. It was no pressure on that's the best. I've seen stedim looked since he's been here. In those few throw like that death indeed. I mean, even though it was a great play design, they had a throwing but that guy that picks a catch. He had a gun shecky that was the best throw. I've seen him make. releases the preseason last year. Right. So and I think that's what people kind of got on the hype train and was trying to talk themselves into No, okay, well, if he does, what he doesn't have in a preseason, maybe who have some type of a chance. But, you know, we didn't see it against the Jets last year. We didn't see it earlier to share against Kansas City. So, um, you know, that I think people kind of cool with Don when I kind of did cool on the idea of him, you know, being the quintessential leader or predecessor to arm to cam what's a Brady was going to be there. So what we'll see but like I said, they went Thursday night. Um, you know, actually, you know, I'm gonna be definitive. I feel like I've been dancing. If they if they win Thursday night, they're gonna run the table. I'm putting out there right now. And

Rob Kelly: 22:51

I yes, I don't disagree with you. I

Rayshawn Buchanan: 22:53

want y'all want to sound like I'm a homer fine. Call me what you want. If they went Thursday night, which is which is feasible. And I said San Francisco, let me know that Thursday was a winnable game, because of how they came in here and beat them a couple weeks ago. So I was worried about this game initially. But when I saw San Francisco do what they did, I'm I'm positive that bill looked at that is looking at that tape and said, Okay, we're gonna attack them here, attack them there. We can do this. We could do that. So, um, that that's just what it is. So if it was it was Thursday, you can rest assured they're gonna run the table. And you know, who knows what happened from there? Oh, yeah, I

Rob Kelly: 23:28

can promise you this. You'll know, within the first quarter, you'll know how that game is gonna go. Because if the Pats are like I said, they're playing power football. Let's think about the triple option is their triple option is power. That's what they need to do. When they get to the finish triple option. You see cam maybe handed it off. You see him maybe not then he runs outside. That's when it goes downhill. If they can sit there and just pound the Rams up the middle there in business guys. Yeah.

Joe Malkin: 23:56

And don't forget that this Rams defense is pretty good, but the offense is okay. It's above average, but it's suspect. I mean, Jared Goff is serviceable, right they have some good receivers they have some good backs but it's it's not you know, it's not Todd Gurley in the backfield and they're they're not quite the Super Bowl season Rams up they they once were so but again to finish off the the Patriots review preview and love fest here. We do we we do understand that the Patriots do not have a talented roster. They just don't. But it really comes down to Bill Belichick and game planning. And at this point in the season, where what he has on the field is finally healthy. Whether we're talking about injuries or COVID cases, the team is healthy and they're moving in the right direction. The game plan seems right and everybody's clicking number 11

Rayshawn Buchanan: 24:51

we need you so come Come back. Come back. Come back in that Miami game. Come down a good that someone that one son, I'll fly out to Miami we can head up finger Lincoln on 120 fifth, we can just have a good time. Julian, we need you back brother.

Rob Kelly: 25:06

If they Jules Jules will be a big help right now. That's for sure. Yeah. If the Patriots have a chance to make the playoffs going into week 17 or week 16 like they they actually have a chance and it's a story in the NFL. To me I know Stephen Stefanski has been amazing. We haven't seen the Browns went a long time. Hands down Bill Belichick should be coaching here. The job is theirs. It should be guaranteed to me to see the job that he's doing with this roster. If they actually have a chance to make the playoffs. This dude is the coach of the year. I'm sorry, he is. It's either hammer Shanahan and Shannon has not gotten it because they're five and seven. But the things that he's done is just on special teams on defense, it's just every week he's finding ways to put points on the board because he knows his offense can't and it's just watching them play to me is just it's beautiful. But it's so fucking frustrating because he's just like, How the fuck does this you do this?

Joe Malkin: 26:12

It's unreal. I'm just so I'm just so happy to hear you saying this that I want to let you go. But there are 31 other teams and with no you don't have you literally don't have to be sorry. This is literally just my segue. So there are 31 other teams and there's a lot of other news but if you're right they run the table they're 10 six there's a good chance they get in there seven teams in the playoffs this year and if they can squeak in all you got to do is get in the tournament we've seen it before and you guys know what I'm gonna say the nine and seven giants did it against the 18 and old patriots in 2007 so anything is possible but we're gonna move on to the rest of the NFL before we do we have a quick message from our sponsor box Oh crass

Craig D'Alessandro: 26:59

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Joe Malkin: 27:39

thanks, Craig and welcome back to Episode 21 of missing the point Joe Malkin Bob Kelly rayshawn Buchanan, and well you just heard from Craig D'Alessandro helping us out here and we're gonna move on to the rest of the NFL. And as everyone if you don't follow us on our Instagram at underscore missing the point, head over there and check out the weekly NFL power rankings provided to you by Bob Kelly and Bobby don't know what the hell

Rob Kelly: 28:04

you're doing. If you don't follow us on Instagram. Well, that's true going on here.

Joe Malkin: 28:07

Craig's been doing a great job. So again, uh, Craig will link this in the show notes, we love to tell Craig to links link things in the show notes. It's why I mentioned all of our episodes. But we would love you to go over to add underscore missing the point on Instagram and give us a follow and you can do the same over on Twitter as well. So Bobby, you provide us with your weekly rankings, your weekly power rankings every week, and we've been doing the top 10. But this week, we have a top 20. And we will only be publishing the top 10 on Instagram, but we have we have a little bit of a shake up for the first time in a few weeks. And let's start with number 10. And we'll work our way up to number one. But you you have some teams that are playoff teams outside the top 10 which is understandable, because there will be a team in the 20s if it comes out of the NFC East that will be in the playoffs. But Bobby, run us through your number 10 through number six before we get into the top five.

Rob Kelly: 29:06

All right, absolutely. So number 10 to me, I know they just had a huge letdown this week. I still believe in them. I think that they're just a very hot and cold team. They go as Ross goes that's the Seattle Seahawks number 10 number nine, I've been to Indianapolis Colts. I've said this all season. They are the least interesting, most boring good football team I've ever watched in my entire life yet, but somehow they're still in every single game and right there. They have a chance in the AFC for sure. Number nine the Colts number eight we got the Rams. I believe in the Rams. That's why I think that like we just said I think that patriots game against the Rams is their biggest one that goes so far. Because I really do believe in that team. I think Jalen Ramsay is the best corner in the NFL. The only question I have with them is Jared Goff. But they're still right there. Number eight, the Rams number seven. I struggled to put them at number seven, because I honestly think this team is frauds and I know that's a crazy thing to say about a number 17 but that's the Buffalo Bills. They looked amazing last night I'm not gonna I'm not gonna hate on that. But to me Josh Allen is a ticking time bomb again. He He looked amazing last night. So it was crazy to say this right now. But I think if you put pressure and you get in his head, he's going to turn the ball over multiple times. That's why I think the Patriots have a really good shot against them. Number six, the Cleveland Browns Ladies and gentlemen, up to number six, what a win this week against the Titans. I believe in Baker after these last two weeks, I said this after OBJ went out I think he is a prime candidate for the Ewing's airy. As soon as he left Baker Mayfield is looked like a different quarterback. firing on all cylinders number six, breathless.

Joe Malkin: 31:04

So to recap to recap your 10 through six. I agree with you on the Seahawks and ray will give you some time here to I agree with you on the Seahawks. The Colts I love the Colts I think number nine is a good spot for them. But I'm a big fan of Frank Reich. Frank Reich is the head coach that that was the second choice of Jimmer say and the Colts after Josh McDaniels decided not to get on the plane from from Boston to

Rob Kelly: 31:29

Indy was a better choice.

Joe Malkin: 31:31

I think it was a better choice in the long run. Absolutely. And I think that with your quarterback situation in Indy, right now with Philip Rivers, and they've been using Jacoby percent a lot. I think they've really done a good job of incorporating both of those guys into the offense. And I said a few weeks ago that I would like Phil, I would have liked philip rivers in New England over Cam Newton. I still stick by that. But I think that Frank Reich as a head coach is a better guy to handle the personality of Philip Rivers than Josh McDaniels. And then number eight, the Rams they're gonna fall out of your top 10 because I do believe they're gonna lose for the Patriots. That doesn't mean I don't believe in their defense. They have Jalen Ramsey. They have Aaron Donald, they have a, they have a very good team and they have a very good team on offense. I just don't think Sean McVeigh who is no older than any of us doing this podcast, which has ABS still mind blowing to me. I just don't think he's there yet. In terms of experience. Sure. He has been to a Super Bowl. And Stan crunky has given him everything he wants. He won't give the fans what they want. But he'll give his coach what he wants. But that's a different podcast for a different time. And he's he will be successful and continue to be successful. And they'll give him the team and the resources. I just I think they're more fraudulent than the team you put above them in a Buffalo Bills. I honestly believe that that Allen is growing by the week, and I think his composure is getting better his his throws his arm is the most he's got an unbelievable arm, but he's like Ricky Vaughn. He can throw it a mile but he doesn't know where it's going, you know what I mean? So it's just it's very interesting to watch him play and see what he can do as a quarterback. I don't necessarily agree with you that the bills are frauds, I don't think they're gonna win a Super Bowl, but the team in that top 10 that I think I like the most are the browns. I said this the other night, I think Odell Beckham Jr. is a cancer in that locker room. He was in New York before he left. When he got to Cleveland. He was okay to start with right. Like he brought he got he got Jarvis Landry. They're from Miami, he, human beggar and Jarvis really got along and everything went well.

Rob Kelly: 33:47

But the other way around, was it. No, didn't he Jarvis

Joe Malkin: 33:52

Jarvis was there he brought OBJ in everything was good. They bring in Kareem hunt the draft Nick Chubb they get Baker Mayfield all these guys have kind of have similar personalities right there. They're eccentric, they're the love, to to not I don't want to say show off or Showboat, but they be the guy that they love to be the guy but that's the problem. Odell starts you know, saying I need the ball more, I need the ball more and you see bigger start to force him the ball and the Browns just they looked off. They didn't look good. And him him not being in the lineup. I think you're right. It's the Ewing effect. I think it's it's going to be great for that team. In the long run. Right. What are your thoughts on 10 through six?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 34:34

Raw?

Rob Kelly: 34:35

Russ,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 34:36

the best thing you got going on right now? Is Sierra So hey, Sierra, how you doing baby?

Rob Kelly: 34:41

decad Metcalf would like to argue with you on that point.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 34:43

No, but I mean, but to to only score its whole points against the giants and granted DK MC I've had a decent game but I mean, I mean, come on. I mean, damn. Like,

Rob Kelly: 34:52

they were Amin. They were, they were

Rayshawn Buchanan: 34:54

no but I mean, but they've been off a few times this year. And once again, they were a gold standard away from losing to us too. So, um, maybe they're not as real as you know, they came off to be um, and listen, we can kill that noise about Russell Wilson being the MVP at the losing side of the game. Sorry. Like it's that's that's not that's not working. And then you know, far Josh Allen, uh, you know, this is where you know, Craig we want to jump in you can. Me and Craig have said it on this show. We've said it earlier in the year. Josh Allen was going to lead buffalo to winning the AFC East. And we talked about him being that guy now he convinced Joe

Rob Kelly: 35:31

to take them. Yeah, you know, so

Rayshawn Buchanan: 35:33

he didn't really convinced he was he just kind of it was a two against one or deal so that that's just that's just what happened. Yeah, you know so

Joe Malkin: 35:40

majority wins in the voting isn't rigged.

Rob Kelly: 35:43

Yeah. Well, when when the Speaker of the House deck isn't on the table

Rayshawn Buchanan: 35:46

that's right. So that's what happens so he you know, and I said that that will route the through last night I forget to do it, but it wasn't a Gabriel Davis I forget the guy who threw it too but that that was a hell of a play. And I say I mean outside of the homes I'm not sure does anyone has a better arm than than Josh Allen like it's real. Um, and as far as Cleveland goes, like, I to me see. I don't like I know. And I'm surprised Jonah status maybe was waiting for me to say it and I might I might have him fall off his couch when he when I say this, but um, ob days kind of like the Kyrie of the of the NFL.

Joe Malkin: 36:22

Yes. Yeah. He's not as bad though. He's not as bad Kyrie so much worse, Kyrie is worse.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 36:28

Now, and this is weird. And you know, you guys may disagree with that. I just called him Kyrie, but I do feel like if a if he was here, you wouldn't see half of that stuff that he was doing.

Rob Kelly: 36:39

I agree with that.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 36:39

I am not at first yet. Yeah, not at first, but I just I just still feel like cuz we remember Chad Ochocinco. He loved him. I can argue that shadow sick was more of a personality otj whatever.

Unknown: 36:54

Oh, yeah. But

Rayshawn Buchanan: 36:55

he but he but he but bill but bill love

Rob Kelly: 36:57

loves OBJ he loves ob right,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 37:00

you know, saying so I feel like had, um, you know, the Giants have said, Hey, you know, we're gonna trade you him. I mean, granted, I think Brady's still here we have OBJ but, but that's a whole nother conversation. But I just think that Cleveland has been awesome. And you know, you know, shout out to the Browns fans that have held it down. You know, not, not before. I'm happy for a decent team. You know, um, you know what it was? You know, it was it was it wasn't it wasn't Kelly Kelly Holcomb and

Rob Kelly: 37:26

Kelly Holcomb? Yeah, Kelly Holcomb. Dennis, Dennis northcutt.

Joe Malkin: 37:30

Here we were talking about you know, so yeah,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 37:33

yes. Yeah. Football, right. Sorry. That's right. Yeah, sorry. That's not that's not revisionist history. But

Rob Kelly: 37:45

no, Reuben drones.

Joe Malkin: 37:53

taking control rounds.

Rob Kelly: 37:55

I actually have a question, but okay. So Ruben, okay. So when it comes to when it comes to the Seahawks, right, so I get them at 10. Because they do go up and down so much. The teams behind them. This is why I had trouble taking them out of the top 10. Right. We had the Titans, the Buccaneers, and the Cardinals. Would you legitimately take any of those three teams and put them above the Seahawks?

Joe Malkin: 38:26

No, no, no, no. lower than that. You have the Raiders, the Ravens and the giants. And now what's interesting is you guys, you just mentioned it. You know about the the giants and how you know, they were they were beaten by a Colt McCoy lead giants team.

Rob Kelly: 38:42

I'm kind of believer in the giants, man. Be honest.

Joe Malkin: 38:45

Listen, listen, you got to go back. And you got to watch the games. And I I mean this wholeheartedly, because I thought it last night when I was watching that giant Seahawks game, you have to go back and look at the common opponents that the giants and the Patriots have. And look, look at the results that the Giants have over the teams that the Patriots have played after the Patriots have played them. Because Joe judge came from the New England Patriots. I think Joe judge might be an underrated head coach, and I said it. I said it weeks ago, weeks ago that the New York Giants would win the NFC East. I because they got hot and they started Now granted, Dallas doesn't look terrible tonight. I mean, it's coming down to the second quarter as the end of the second quarter as we record this and they're driving against the Ravens. The football team beat the best team in the NFL at least on paper last night right as Mike likes to say no paper champions. The the Giants beat the Seahawks. I mean, the eagle still stink, but we're looking at it an entertaining finish to the season in the NFC East but I think that giants team is underrated and you having them at 16 Bobby, I really liked that.

Rob Kelly: 39:56

I think that if we were to post the whole rankings people go nuts about that. But like, if you look at their schedule, right you look into teams, the Giants have lost two. There's really not any bad football teams that they lost to week. One Steelers. They lost to the bears when the bears were still pretty good. Right? They're still good. They lost to the Rams. They lost to the Cowboys that we Dak got hurt the Bucs in a quote great game. Then we have the giants, they've I mean, the giants, they beat the Eagles, beat the bangles, beat the football team and beat the Bengals and then beat the Seahawks. Like

Joe Malkin: 40:36

they're beating the teams that they should be. And then they're losing to the teams that they should lose to except for the Seahawks. And close

Rob Kelly: 40:43

games, though that's the thing is like these games are all close every single one of them

Joe Malkin: 40:47

in a year where they're trying to figure it out. And thank goodness there for them. They're in a bad division, right? So before we go off on our giants tangent, let's get into your top five. Your number five is interesting to me, but I'll handle that in my recap.

Rob Kelly: 41:03

So number five is the dolphins. I'm a big believer in the dolphins. I really think this team to me, I think it's the belcheck tree thing. They remind me a lot of the Patriots, but a better version of them where they don't need to play great offense. They don't need to make these big plays that other teams need to make because they just play sound solid football from beginning to end. So I think that's why the dolphins have a legit chance to Alright, a legit chance to lose to the chiefs and AFC Championship. They will get him a chance to do that. Number four, I think this is going to cause some controversy. They just lost their first game last night. The only reason they're number one prior to this is because they were undefeated. I have the Pittsburgh Steelers. And I think I honestly think what we saw last night is the team they are they almost lost to the Cowboys. They they play down to their competition so much. And to me the Steelers are a prime candidate to go 15 and one I get knocked out in the first round of the playoffs. The I think they are a prime candidate prime candidate for that. The reason I put them at four is because I think head to head these next three teams beat the Steelers and they beat them pretty easily when they're at full house. I don't know if number two would right this moment. Full House table. Number three the Packers. I think Aaron Rodgers to me is on a mission this year. I know they have up and down weeks but when Aaron Rodgers is on that team is unbeatable. davante Adams and Aaron Rodgers are such a combo together. It's so beautiful to watch. Number two, the saints Sean Payton. He's another one where I think that he is such a candidate for Coach of the Year to be able to be the number one seed in the NFC after losing Brees. And even before that Brees wasn't even playing great. He hasn't had Michael Thomas all year, this team hasn't been full house. And they're the number one seed in the NFC. Granted it's a flawed NFC. But they literally haven't had their team for one week so far this season. And they're and they're number one seed. Number two is saints. Number one, to me, everyone's playing catch up. As the Kansas City Chiefs. You're going to need something special to beat the chiefs. You're going to need them to be off, you're going to need them to play a terrible game like they did against the Raiders. And even then you still might not have a chance to Kansas City Chiefs are by far and away. The best team in football. It is not even close to me.

Joe Malkin: 43:44

You have been waiting for the Steelers to lose. So y'all watch you've said number one for weeks, where I'm gonna start with number five and the dolphins and Ray Ray is gonna love this because he and I have talked about this before. Brian Flores if Bill Belichick were not the coach of the New England Patriots. Brian Flores would be the best coach in the AFC East. I think he is managing that team correctly. I think he's managing his quarterbacks correctly. I also think Ryan Fitzpatrick is just a model citizen and a good human being. And I think he understands what needs to be done for the team. And I mean, no one gets more excited for to succeed than then he does than Fitzpatrick does. Because I think he I mean, he's a journeyman, right he's, he's not over the hill because we can we know he can still play and there's video of him wearing short shorts and his thighs are incredible. Like I wish I had those legs. But, but that team they have miles Gaskin miles Gaskins, they have devante Parker, they have Matt Breeden, they're two tagovailoa they and Ryan Fitzpatrick at quarterback Micah sickie at tight end, they have some very good young receivers, that Matt Collins, which I think Ray mentioned him on another show, but jakeem grant, you know, and their offensive line. I mean, they have Ted Karras former Patriot, I mean, we're, that's just a good team. And just a football team. They

Rob Kelly: 45:14

they just play ball.

Joe Malkin: 45:15

Jerome, Jerome Baker, Kyle van Noy and Landon Roberts are your are your linebackers like it's the Patriots moved south. I mean, maybe Tom actually wanted to move a little bit South Korea and cold South are a little bit more south and go play for Brian Flores. But I really liked this Miami team. The only problem I have with you putting them five in the rankings and we've talked about this is the fact that the bills are probably going to win this division and the dolphins probably will hopefully get overtaken by the Patriots in the AFC Stan AFC standings, but I think it's safe. I could actually and and we all heard Ray get a little wound up about the Steelers beat falling to number four. I have an issue with that too. But I'll kind of spoil my number three. I actually think the dolphins are in a better situation than the packers and I'll tell you why in just a second. At number four, you have the Steelers. I think it's fair because I think the saints are better than them. But I think the Steelers are better than the Packers. I think the Packers have a great coaching staff they have they still have Aaron Rodgers, but the Steelers are just so dynamic. I mean, and if they if they have James Connor last night, it may be a different story. But they had had some COVID issues as well. And we can't blame it on that. And I've been preaching that all year. Right. And that's what I said to Bobby, that's what I said to you about the Patriots. Like if they're playing they got to be there. If they can't do their job, they shouldn't they shouldn't be playing. So I think the Steelers at four is fair. The Packers I think are a little high. We've seen this team. And you mentioned the Steelers could be that team that goes 15 and one and loses in the first round. We've seen that from the Packers so many times and Aaron Rodgers lead Packers team that goes into the playoffs looking great. They're high flying, they're dynamic. You know, these guys have Aaron Jones, they they have davante Adams, they they have all of these pieces on offense. They're high flying and dynamic, but they just they could never finish. And I just don't like them at three because I see that coming for them again. The Saints, man I shoot. They've been saying that taysom Hill was going to be the guy after Drew Brees anyway, and this is like a tryout for this kid. And honestly, he's getting better week by week. He really is and I feel the lesson. And I think that Sean Payton has what it takes to coach this guy and I mean, Drew Brees was never a mobile quarterback right. He was never what taysom Hill can be. But I mean, Drew Brees is a better quarterback than taysom Hill. We know that taysom Hill also hasn't reached the ceiling and Drew Brees is still playing at the top of his game at 38 years old. So and then the Chiefs I I'm with you on the chiefs. I mean, they're just so good. And their defense. Honestly, I think their defense is underrated. I think they have a really, really good team. I'm a fan of your top 10 all the way around. I mean, I think you have the right teams in there. But I mean, it's so interesting this this league is really heating up as we come into the last four weeks of the season. Right.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 48:17

So so glad you asked. All right,

Rob Kelly: 48:19

so I have something to say about it.

Joe Malkin: 48:21

Right? What do you got to say?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 48:25

Okay, so I mean, Miami f5. Okay, great. I mean, whatever they've done really well. Um, you know, we talked about to being the answer eventually. Like, I'm just not sure why people thought that Fitzpatrick should still be the guy if tool was healthy. And he showed him enough of practice to be on the field which he did. So this Fitzpatrick wasn't faltering just to rebut that

Joe Malkin: 48:45

Fitzpatrick was playing well enough not to you know what I mean?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 48:48

Yeah. Well, whatever. He's never been someone even when they went down to seven and buffalo in New York. He threw the picket in the game like Jimmy, please. So he, he's never been someone that thought like, Oh, my gosh, he's gonna get us there. So I feel I feel like that's why

Rob Kelly: 49:02

I think they did that because it didn't matter. You know what I mean? I feel like they saw the tape. They saw it happen, okay. Where the same team, whether we have Ryan Fitzpatrick, or our rookie quarterback, who's our future, let's play our rookie quarterback who's the future,

Joe Malkin: 49:17

they're going to be better with two. We know that. But But Fitzpatrick can can manage the game. And maybe Ray they didn't realize what they had at first. And they were going with Fitzpatrick like like you just said, let's see what it has in practice, and what he can bring to the table. And this is what I'm talking about Brian Flores, he made that switch the exact right time. Like he knew exactly what he was doing. And he made the move and went with it and you know, I understand we all talk about Brady and grace flow of the past here in New England, but maybe maybe belcheck can craft can take a few notes out of Brian Flores his book, but carry on.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 49:54

It boggles my mind that because they lost the game now they dropped to 4 billion you praise the saints because they've had injuries. Pittsburgh's unhealthy all gear. You lose Devin Busch, you lose figurehead I just lost last week I forgot the guy's name. But I mean, his day was played out of his mind. So he's been great McAfee's patch has been awesome, but they haven't been healthy all year themselves. And as far as James kinda goes, I mean, while he's been in there and not, then this is not the James Franco amas airway job. Jerome Bettis there, this is not those guys. They're not they're not running. They're not running through the door. So they've been. They've been, they've been 29th 30th and 31st, I think the last few years and running. So then I mean, as far as rushing so they're not, that's not, that's no longer their identity. So we still think of the steel curtain and those guys running through everybody. Those teams are gone. It's a throwing league. They got Claypool, they got Juju, they got Deontay Johnson, on that's their identity, that's fine. But losing one game, but just because you don't win win style points. And we're so big on that, especially, you know, could we got ruined by college football and oh, you know, you have to beat a team 45 six, or you have to beat a team 77 to eight or whatever. And it's like, Look, at the end of the day, did you get the win? And 11 times out of 12 which is a nine you know, 910 winning percentage. They found a way to get the job done. So are they still you know, their top two and to me, they're right behind. They're right by Kansas City now so I'm fine with that. Like Kansas City should be number one, since they both have one loss. I'm cool with that. Um, but that's the only switch I would make in that top five. Say, you know, putting on his back or number four, yes, they've won a lot in the rotation Hill has been awesome, even though people thought that he wasn't going to do much for some reason, but I'm like, he's showing you all that he can ball when he's been out there. So to think that he wasn't in Hello. He got drafted as a quarterback y'all he didn't come in here as a wide receiver in it come in here as a safety they come here before backgrounds height and he played quarterback to BYU y'all. So stop being a Monday morning quarterback or armchair quarterback, the American ball. He's not t bo. He's not even as much as I love t bo, he's, you know, he's not in that mode. He's much better and he's showing him

Joe Malkin: 52:08

and that's why he's not gonna get the respect that against us because people think he was like Tim couch where they were trying to draft him as a wide receiver. You're absolutely right. Or he was drafted as a quarterback. Sure. estivo. But TiVo, but TiVo was drafted as a quarterback. They, the Browns didn't want to draft him coaches a quarterback right? Like there's been guys in the past. I mean, Edelman.

Rob Kelly: 52:28

Wait, I don't really know, Tim couch,

Joe Malkin: 52:31

the team that was going to draft him. Eric, Eric crouch. They were gonna they were gonna do want to say Eric crouch five more times, but he wanted to

Rayshawn Buchanan: 52:41

get to Nebraska.

Joe Malkin: 52:42

But so you guys know who I'm talking about. But Eric crunch was was drafted as wide receiver he retired. So same thing with Julian Edelman. He was a quarterback drafted as wide receiver taysom. Hill was drafted as a quarterback, and then proved that, and I think he knew Drew Brees was going to be there for a while. So he said, Well, I'll do whatever you whatever I got to do to get on the field, I'll do it. And he was good enough because of who he was at BYU. And I said this to a friend the other day, I just hope he gets the respect that he deserves as a quarterback, and not by the league, but by the fans. And he's not gonna get it because of those exact reasons you just said, but man, this kid can play and he is the future of the New Orleans Saints. Okay, can

Rob Kelly: 53:25

I give one since you guys brought him up? I want to give one Tim Tebow heartache. Where I think if Tim tchibo had the attitude that taysom Hill did day one coming in, where he knew he knew he had to prove himself to get to be a quarterback. He had to prove himself on the football team as a football player. And after taysom Hill did he played special teams, he played wide receiver he did whatever they asked exactly like you said, and I think of Tim Tebow had that attitude coming in. He honestly was a better athlete and a better football players and taysom Hill is and I think he would have been more successful in those roles and taysom Hill was and I think we'd be talking about a whole different I mean,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 54:04

you're talking to a gators fan. So no, of course I mean, I love tea, but I'm just saying like he I mean remember that team was wondering for he comes in they go 74 and make the playoffs, you know, and when the rest was history, but um, yeah, he was just so he was just so stuck on being a quarterback that he wasn't going to say okay, I'm gonna be a fullback. I'm gonna be a titan if you need me to be what she does. He definitely could have been he had the wherewithal to do all that. But it just didn't happen that way. Sorry. Keep my bad

Rob Kelly: 54:30

Tebow tangent. We've

Joe Malkin: 54:31

gone off on a few Tebow. tangent. Tell me about

Rob Kelly: 54:34

your TiVo tangents or Okay.

Joe Malkin: 54:36

Tell me about your thoughts on the number one pick the right number one pick,

Rayshawn Buchanan: 54:40

okay, okay, let me kind of city you know, it has been the cream of the crop and they'll continue to do so. Now. I wouldn't say that divas is underrated. I just think their defense does enough because you can when you have you know, a galley mahomes backing you up. So, you know, they're good. They'll get the job done. done so many times before, but I just think that it's funny because I saw this on NFL. Good morning, but and I actually agree with this, but they you know, they mentioned like, you know, Kansas City is not really blowing out their opponents like they're very methodical, but how they do yeah, you know, yeah, not do more last year, you know, so it's like, you know, they can they can and we'll give them 30 in a game like they gave a 30 to Carolina, they gave a 40 to sort of Raider so They are vulnerable just to think you have to go score for score and in most teams because most teams can't. That's where you know, you're basically defeated as soon as you come off the bus because you just feel like Well, there's no way we can stop them. And their misfortune and less. Andy Reid is going to embarrass you and they're going to go for it. And then now as halftime you're down 28 to nothing. It's like, well, what the fuck just happened? So, it Casey it definitely more. Tina,

Rob Kelly: 55:49

do you think KC is good enough? last thing I'll say about them? And we can get on to the coaches? Do you think they're good enough that they do it on purpose, they almost seem like that kind of team that they do. Like they can turn it right, they can turn it on and off at will, to the point where they're not showing. That's why I think Kansas City is almost unbeatable, because I think that they have a whole nother level that we haven't seen yet. So one one

Joe Malkin: 56:14

thing, one thing that that Patrick mahomes said and things that we've seen on TV and just in interviews and highlights of him. One thing he said that his first year in the NFL, he didn't even know how to read a defense. And he still played the way he did out of his mind, because he's just a natural athlete with a high football IQ. And then you I mean, we've seen him, we have seen him make eye contact with officials as he's looking for for flags. We've seen him do things on the football field that he just does as him because he is a different

Rob Kelly: 56:52

know what passes the knowledge,

Joe Malkin: 56:53

but like he is he's just a different dude. He just he he processes the game a different way. And the game moves slower for him. And that is one thing that this Kansas City team has that no other team has. Is that guy is a guy like that. That that's that's that athletic. I mean, yeah, yeah, the Bucs might have that, but he's 43 so sure the game is different to Tom Brady as well. But, man, she's I I just can't I couldn't say enough about Patrick mahomes. But real quick. I have I have three rapid fire questions for you guys. I want yes or no answers to the first two and I want a team to the third one. I'm not gonna we're not going to expand on it because we don't want to go forever. And I do want to get to this coach's topic. Okay. So here we go. rayshawn you're going to get to answer the first question or the Tennessee Titans frauds?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 57:49

No.

Joe Malkin: 57:51

Bobby are the Tennessee Titans frauds?

Rob Kelly: 57:53

No.

Joe Malkin: 57:55

Are the Cleveland Browns for real? Bobby?

Rob Kelly: 57:58

Absolutely.

Joe Malkin: 57:59

rayshawn.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 58:00

Yes.

Joe Malkin: 58:01

Who will win the NFC East? Ray?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 58:06

giants.

Joe Malkin: 58:07

Bobby.

Rob Kelly: 58:08

God damn. I don't want to agree with him. I'm gonna say giants giants. Definitely.

Joe Malkin: 58:14

You know what, it's a great story. The only thing I'll expand on that it's a great story in Washington. The besides the fact that their owner is a joke trashy human being but with their head coach, we I think I think everybody in the NFL loves Ron Rivera. And we hope that that he's good going down the road. Anybody that has to go through something like that. We've all had family members and friends that have had to go through cancer and cancer treatments. And this dude is here's another guy that's built different, right? Like he's out here looking like hell looking like he should be. Not on his deathbed. But at least in bed. He looks like crap buddies out there. And he and his team is balling for him right now. And that's just it's that's great for Ron Rivera. So

Rob Kelly: 58:58

that's the difference is the two teams at the top, have a coach and a staff that the team believes in and they're playing hard because of their coach. I don't know if you guys heard the interview that Wogan Ryan had a little while ago, but he was talking about how awesome Joe judges because his wife got sick and like this whole thing happened and how much he believed in him and let him do his thing. I just love Joe judge. I think he's a great coach.

Joe Malkin: 59:23

But sometimes it does come out to being a good good human being right. So there's there's your message for the night you can be good at what you do by just being a good person. So the last topic I want to get on, well, bad coaches. I mean, those guys can be good people too. We all really I'm not saying there's a correlation here. But sometimes. So the last topic I want to touch on tonight is coaches that are on the hot seat. Guys. We've seen three NFL coaches fired during the season. The first one was Bill O'Brien of the Texans after week six. The team was one in five bill O'Brien was relieved of his duties. Dan Quinn, the Falcons were one in seven. He was relieved of his duties. Matt Patricia, they were five and 600 Patricia they're now want to know under Darrell bevell who took over so Darrell bevell, who was the offensive coordinator in a second season takes over over his interim head coach. Bill O'Brien is relieved of his duties. They are the Texans are three and three and actually Looking like a good team under Romeo Cornell, who he was the associate head coach. In his first season previously, he had been serving as a defensive coordinator and defensive assistant. He's in the seventh season overall. He is also the oldest head coach in NFL history. There's your trivia for the day, the oldest head coach in NFL history Romeo Coronel patching passing George palace, and then the other one is Raheem Morris taking over the helm of the Falcons. The team was one in seven under Dan Quinn and the Falcons are now three and one under Raheem Morris and actually looking like a good football team defensive coordinator prior to taking over as interim head coach, guys. We've seen some some bad teams in the NFL this season. We've we've heard of some guys that are on the hot seat now. Three coaches have been relieved of their duties since 2000. That has happened to other times only one time, only one time since 2000. have four coaches been relieved of their duties in season and that was in 2010 when the 40 Niners fired Mike Singletary. The Broncos fire Josh McDaniels the Vikings fired Brad Childress. And the Cowboys fired Wade Wade Phillips.

Rob Kelly: 1:01:40

There is days in my life,

Joe Malkin: 1:01:42

right? So after week 13 or I shouldn't say after because we as we record this are in the midst of the final game of week 13. There are six coaches that are reportedly on the hot seat. And here they are. Adam gates of the Jets. That team is oh and 12 Doug marone of the Jaguars that team is one on 11. You have Doug Peterson of the Eagles. That team is three eight and one. Anthony Lin of the Chargers that team is three and nine Vic Fangio for an eight Broncos, and Matt naggy five and seven bears. Guys, we talked about coaches a little bit earlier right we talked about a lot of the really good ones the Pete Carroll's the bill Bella checks the Andy Reid's the Mike tomlins of the NFL. I don't think all of these coaches are bad coaches and we'll talk about that a little bit more. But Bobby of those six, I don't want to play the game of who's going to be the next one to lose their job but who's the next one that's going to lose his job.

Rob Kelly: 1:02:42

So to stand out to me, anyway is one just because of I've never seen a team blow so many weeds by just strictly absurd, questionable decisions by the head coach. I love Anthony when I watched that I watched that hard knocks and I was an Anthony Lind believer man I was in felt like Morgan Freeman was sitting there talking to me head coach at charges. It was unbelievable. But man, when I saw him two weeks ago, call a timeout. I've never seen I've never seen a head coach do this before my entire life. It's 43. There's 45 seconds left in the second quarter. But to go to halftime, the clock is running. Right? So you can run the clock down to three seconds, two seconds, called timeout throw a hail mary. This dude calls a timeout of 43 seconds left, and then punch the ball. So you literally just call the timeout in order to give the other team in extra possession. That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard. The other one is the one is a favorite to me. I think you should already be gone. This is for DK and that's Matt naggy the offense AC in Chicago is absolute blasphemy. That team is awful, man, that offense is so bad. And it starts with the play call it because when you see fourth and six, and you're running a quarterback draw or you're running a halfback, like stretch, or a screenplay, it's just like, what are you doing? It's like, like I said in the chat the other day, it's like Scott Linehan is the head coach of the Chicago Bears. And he used to worse off as a coordinator I've ever seen.

Joe Malkin: 1:04:24

Also a guy that was fired in season as a head coach,

Rob Kelly: 1:04:27

right. So that's so lions, right? Yep. Yeah. But yeah, Matt naggy to me is the favorite. I think he should have already been gone. geek had watered them gone when they're five and one. And now they're five and seven. Now you need to go right.

Joe Malkin: 1:04:43

What your What are your thoughts on this list of six guys and again, don't want anybody to lose their job but who should be next to loser Joe?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:04:49

Doug marone. Down in Jacksonville needs to go. You know, um, they got crowned AFC Champions in 2017. Without even winning, you know, you have miles jack you had Leonard fournette you had like board this was supposed to be prophets burger 2.0. You know, ha boy a, you know, you had all these guys on that team that was supposed to be next up and oh, they're gonna they're gonna be the contenders for next two years. And then, you know, yes, some guys left or whatever. You know, I'm very I don't say father as well. telvin Smith. Yeah, that was the telescope so all that so it's like they had a really good nucleus. They're and then just like that, you know, they're they're gone right? And you know the days of wishing their glory days but you know Brunel and Jimmy Smith and those guys they're not going to go down that dark history but guess you know those days were gone. So Doug marone needs to use ago um, I'm not in agreement about Anthony Lynn Dolman once again two years ago to the day we just told him for and had a chance, you know, and beat Lamar Jackson in the playoffs. Now granted, they did they didn't come up to Lincoln prepared at all like the game was over. So the golf the bus like it was a joke. Yeah, exactly. Put it to put it lightly, you know. So I do think that they're a team that's just never fully been healthy and they are healthy. That they're very good. And once again, he said himself, we were building we were building in the right direction. And it hasn't been at Listen, they found a quarterback now. Justin Herbert has been ahead. Bobby was right about that. I didn't think he was going to be I didn't trust a quarterback from Oregon. I don't trust quarterbacks on the West Coast anyways, for the most part for the PAC 12 so Pac 10, whatever it was at the time. So, uh, but I mean, I can't disagree Matt naggy has to go. You can't be five in one and you know, basically running the NFC North India you lose. not one, not two, not three, but six straight. It's on it's unacceptable. And you know, hey, you know, pack pack your bag, sir. And, you know, enjoy the holidays with your family.

Joe Malkin: 1:06:49

Yeah. You know, before early in the season before the season started. There was a few, a few of these guys on my list. And that was Adam case, Doug Moran and Vic Fangio and Doug Peterson was was close to to that list. Anthony Lind to me was never on that list. I kind of echo Ray a little bit here. They were 12. And for two years ago, granted, that was with Philip Rivers, right, like, but Prior to the season, they couldn't decide who they wanted as their quarterback. I'm almost thinking that, that Anthony Lin was pressured into taking Justin Herbert and maybe didn't want to, but why would you want tyrod? Taylor is your guy all the way through? I just don't see him as a long term solution. No, right. So so

Unknown: 1:07:34

but at the same time, it makes me feel like I can't breathe like my lungs, punctured, or something.

Joe Malkin: 1:07:39

So but Anthony Anthony Lin just signed an extension in February, like before all the COVID stuff happened before the season was in doubt, you know? Yeah. But you know what he he's, he's such a tough one. Because

Rob Kelly: 1:07:53

of the way it's happened, man. And he's

Joe Malkin: 1:07:55

been making some bad decision. Like, he doesn't know he didn't know when when to name that, like everything that that I said that was positive about Brian Flores in Miami, Anthony Lin has done the exact opposite in LA. And it blows my mind that this guy, he's a great coach, like, I really do believe that he is an above average, two very good head coach, and will be in the NFL for a long time. I just think he has to understand how to make a decision. And you know, what, maybe the charters ownership, because we and, and I always preach the bad ownership angle. Maybe ownership is a problem. We I mean, we it's the same owners that had this team in San Diego, and they they unlawfully unrightfully move them to LA, whatever. So maybe there's a rift there, and we just don't know about it. You know, Doug Peterson of the Eagles. I just think what they have there is over and it's time to move on and go with the next guy. He's not my leading candidate to be fired next to these six. But I really do think it's just in in Philadelphia, like let the season happen. That the NFC East is a bad division like so what just let it finish off. Like if Mike McCarthy isn't going to get fired when his team doesn't even want to play with him. Then just play for him. Just let Doug Peterson stay till the end of the year. We talked about Adam case on the Slack channel the other day. I think Adam case is the worst head coach in the NFL. I honestly do. I think he's absolutely and, and people and people can look back and go, Oh, he took the dolphins to the playoffs. Well, great. I mean, Joe Philbin wasn't a good head coach in the NFL either. But he built a team that I like. I still don't think he's a very good head coach. I like to get coordinated.

Rob Kelly: 1:09:39

Yes.

Joe Malkin: 1:09:39

Great. Yeah, sure. But and, I mean, that's kind of how I feel about Josh McDaniels. I mean, I don't think he's a great coordinator right now, but I think he's a good coordinator in the right situation, and a bad head coach. But but then Doug marone I honestly think that the Jaguars are just trying to play themselves in dispersed Stadium in London. I honestly do. I think that the Jaguars owner is just trying to get that team out of the country, be the first international franchise in the NFL. He's building a fan base. He loves playing three to three games a year over in London. Obviously that didn't happen this year. But he was they were slated to play to over there this year. had everything gone the right way. He doesn't want to play in Mexico. He'll never go down there. Even Bill Belichick will agree to go play Mexico but but the Jaguars owner only wants to play in London. That Weird. So I think Doug marone and that guy are just trying to play themselves into London and I just think tank morons. A bad head coach. Vic Fangio also not very good. But you know, it's what they have in Denver right now.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:10:38

Have you been to Atlantic Avenue Jacksonville Joe, so you wouldn't want to play over there either. So I don't Tony Khan, I don't blame you dog like I had to go play in London too. And just have you know, have have a blast over there. Like

Rob Kelly: 1:10:51

I've heard Jacksonville's awful

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:10:53

it is like Joe I hate sorry Duvall county my bad but I'm sorry, like, ain't nothing good over there outside of Zach's Bs, but I feel like

Rob Kelly: 1:11:01

I feel like I feel like Jacksonville anywhere like you don't need to. You don't need to worry about the people living there hating you for saying a sock because if you say to them, they're like, Yeah, do you know?

Joe Malkin: 1:11:14

But to answer the question, I answered the beginning who's the next guy to go? It really should be Matt naggy like I couldn't. I could make I could make excuses for all the other coaches as to why they're staying even Adam case it's the tank for Trevor. He'll go with the end of the year once they once Trevor Lawrence. Once Trevor Lawrence declares for the draft which I have a take on that part too. But it's got to be Matt naggy. I mean, you're you started five in one and DK was calling for for your job then. And a new girl Oh, and six. And he doesn't know who he wants to play a quarterback either. It's like having two ex girlfriends and you just keep dating one of them to see which one likes you the most at the end of the day. And it's like, Alright, Matt, like, Get over yourself and move on pick one. It just rule of thumb there.

Rob Kelly: 1:11:59

You never go from two to one. You will always forever go from two girlfriends to zero girlfriends. Like he's gonna go from two quarterbacks to zero quarterbacks because he's got

Joe Malkin: 1:12:10

this is a real life scenario that Bob Kelly has? No, no, it is

Unknown: 1:12:15

not

Joe Malkin: 1:12:17

missing the point.

Rob Kelly: 1:12:18

That is not true. I have a loving relationship. And well, yes,

Joe Malkin: 1:12:22

now. Your girlfriend is phenomenal. But we've all known you for a very long time you go to the zero. Anyway, real quick.

Rob Kelly: 1:12:33

I don't think Adam Gates is gone. And I know that's a blasphemous thing and a crazy thing to say. But if you're gonna fire the defensive coordinator after last week, Then why the hell wouldn't chef hire a head coach? I honestly, I know. I know. But like, honestly, if you're gonna, if you're gonna do it, do it. And I think that that, to me is a sign of the Jets. I know this is crazy. I really don't think they're gonna fire him. Because I think this has been the goal all season. And I think that it's going to be something where they're like, Listen, Owen substanz gonna be Hugh Jackson. You know what I mean? Like, let's see what happens when he has a real quarterback when he has his team. And I really think that is what's going to happen because like I said, in the Slack channel the other day, it honestly wouldn't surprise me though, if they drafted warrants, went through the entire preseason and then fired gates, because we are talking about a team who let a GM draft their entire draft this past year, and then fired him three days later.

Joe Malkin: 1:13:35

Well, a lot of times a lot of times a problem in the NFL is the fact that that ownership is bad. I don't I don't disagree with you necessarily. I mean owners in the NFL, we've we've seen so many of them that are just I mean, Jimmer say, Snyder. Your boy down there in Dallas,

Rob Kelly: 1:13:53

versus a dirtbag with you bad owner.

Joe Malkin: 1:13:55

I think he's a bad owner, too. Yeah.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:13:58

All the above. With

Rob Kelly: 1:14:00

the cultivating good for a while.

Joe Malkin: 1:14:02

Yeah, but you can I mean, you can have a good football team and still have a bad owner. I mean, Jerry Jones is a bad owner and a bad GM but if he gave up that GM role to his son, I think that team would be so much better or hired somebody from the outside. He just has to do he just has so many control issues that it makes him he he makes the money but he shoots himself in the foot all the time and then we all know that Daniel Snyder is just a slimeball so Alright guys, well that was a wonderful we've now gone towards an hour in 10 minutes here on this episode, and Craig's beanie has come off his hair is a mess. He doesn't know how he's gonna edit this and get it out. But guys as we finish up and finish up our discussion here on episode 21 missing the point we I don't think we have anything formulated but rayshawn Give me your your your final thoughts on tonight.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:14:56

Well, you know great, great show as always, fellas um, I just want to reiterate Do not let the Patriots get hot that's all I'm gonna say do not let us get hot Do not let us get rolling and go

Rob Kelly: 1:15:08

you go Kevin will ironic is that the path?

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:15:13

Exactly cuz you you got you got you got la Thursday. No, Miami next Sunday. They got buffalo the following Monday, and they get and with the terrible jets. So and that just ended their season early on. So don't let us get hot. We're coming. You know, Superman is in the building.

Joe Malkin: 1:15:30

Wouldn't it be great? Just real quick to interject on that? Wouldn't it be great if the Patriots do go? 10 and six, and this is complete speculation and wildly incredible. The Patriots go 10 and six, I know Bobby hates to hear this because not only did I just dis his cow, but you saw

Rob Kelly: 1:15:45

I just thought this was the year you know what I mean? Like, that's where I'm at now is like, the Patriots are bad luck.

Joe Malkin: 1:15:51

The Patriots are bad, and the Cowboys are gonna be good. And then that's not how it is, right?

Rob Kelly: 1:15:56

The Cowboys are good, and three and 13. And the Patriots are bad. I'm gonna be 10 and six, what the fuck is going on?

Joe Malkin: 1:16:03

So, so my, my thought on that just to go off what Ray said, imagine they get hot, they go 10 and six, they get that sixth or seventh seed. They go on a run, and they get to the Super Bowl in Tampa. Just

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:16:19

yet that that? That would be nuts. That would be

Joe Malkin: 1:16:23

you couldn't you couldn't write this any better. But anyway, Bobby, Bobby, give me your final thought.

Rob Kelly: 1:16:30

That was awesome. That would be awesome. Now just thinking about Cam Newton running out of Tom Brady Stadium in your Super Bowl. Oh my Lord.

Rayshawn Buchanan: 1:16:38

Let's go. Let's go. Oh, my work. Can

Rob Kelly: 1:16:42

you imagine?

Joe Malkin: 1:16:42

Could you imagine against Tom Brady? Anyway, all right, go give me give me your final take. Now we're just we're going off the rails.

Rob Kelly: 1:16:49

So my final take is a first this has been an awesome show. I really enjoyed every minute of this. Secondly, is I think it's hilarious to me that the New York Jets are actually that Trevor Lawrence actually is considering staying and Clemson just to stay away from the New York Jets. That's bad. Right and that's how bad that franchise is. And I really think that they're that bad that they are going to keep Adam gates and I that's going to be my final take is that Adam case is going to be the New York Jets head coach in 2021. And I honestly legitimately believe that and

Joe Malkin: 1:17:30

regardless of if they have Trevor Trevor Lawrence

Rob Kelly: 1:17:33

Yeah, regardless, he's there. I really think he's gonna hate that take

Joe Malkin: 1:17:36

I hate Bobby you suck. Craig, do you have anything else? Full Circle de les full circle.

Rob Kelly: 1:17:41

That's why they should have been deleted from the NFL. Get out of here.

Joe Malkin: 1:17:45

No, it's still Alliance. Alright guys. Well, thank you so much. This has been a great episode. So we filled you in on on the NFL, the state of the NFL coaches and everything else. I mean, you listen to it, this is the end. So again, look out for our live episode, our live show the Sunday night sports wrap on December 13. Six to 8pm on Twitch and Facebook Live, maybe. But definitely over on Twitch on the missing the point twitch channel. So if you're listening to this, go over and follow that there's not much there yet. But we're starting our first live show there on Sunday, December 13 at 6pm to talk sure to talk everything, NFL, and we're even going to mix in a little MBA because as I mentioned at the beginning of the show, we'll be we'll be pushing it a little bit this week and you'll hear it on December 17. And that will be our interview with former Boston sports reporter Abby chin and then the boys are going to and I'm not going to be on this one because listen, I can Kyrie lives in my head rent free. But rayshawn and the guys are going to do their NBA preview show, which will come out on the opening day of the NBA season which is December 22. So we have so much coming out. We really hope you enjoyed this episode. And I was talking NFL for rayshawn Buchanan, Bob Kelly, and the best looking Executive Producer Craig D'Alessandro. For the guys I'm Joe Malkin. Thank you for joining us on episode 21 of missing the point we'll catch you next time.

Craig D'Alessandro: 1:19:19

Thanks for listening to this episode of missing the point. This important is the one our weekly podcast recapping the biggest stories in the world of sports with aluminium flavour. The show notes and transcript Today's the show notes and transcript from today's episode can be found in the description box below. Thanks for listening to this episode of missing the point. This is important as a one our weekly podcast recapping the biggest stories in the world of sports with a New England flavor. The show notes from today's episode and transcript can be found in the description box below, as well as on our website www dot MTP show.com. If you're new to the show, and like what you heard, consider subscribing. It's the easiest way to see we publish new episodes. We are on iTunes, Spotify, Google and wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to rate us and leave a review of any of our shows. We always appreciate your feedback. Also, be sure to follow us on all of our social medias. All those links will be in the show notes. Also check out our brand new website WWW dot MTP show calm that's MTP show.com. For all of us here missing the point. I'm Craig D'Alessandro. We'll talk to you next time