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May 11, 2022

Al Hoford Humbles Giannis, Series Tied at 2

Al Hoford Humbles Giannis, Series Tied at 2

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Championship DNA: The 2008 Boston Celtics on The 617 Podcast

After a game that saw Jayson Tatum struggle and the Refs take center stage, The Veteran Al Horford answered for the Celtics on Monday night, defeating Giannis and the Milwaukee Bucks in Game 3 of the Eastern Conference Semi-Finals 116-108.

Dave and Rob break down Game 3 and Preview Game 4 as the Series heads back to Boston and the TD Garden
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Hosts: Dave Clarke, Bob Kelly
Producer: Craig D'Alessandro
Tweet your questions to @MTPshow with the hashtag #askMTP, email us at Craig@MTPshow.com, or leave us a voicemail on our website to be featured on the show!

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Transcript
Dave Clarke:

Welcome to the point idk sizzle and I am so excited to talk about the Boston Celtics. I have been thinking about the Boston Celtics. I've been going to bed and hoping to dream about the Boston Celtics. I have been waking up in the morning my first thought is the Boston Celtics. I've been brushing my teeth with free toothpaste I'm ready to go for obvious reasons for obvious reasons we've had an amazing series unfold right before our eyes so far I'm here with just the one and only real BK Bob Kelly it's just the two of us today to talk all things CS that's all this show is going to be about So if you came here to listen to the Bruins who are getting their asses handed and listen to something about the Bruins or get their asses handed to them by the hurricanes right now three nothing we're not talking about that because this is all happy and positive land. If you're here to listen to talk about the Patriots. We're not talking about that because not a Bobby and I are Patriots fans. This is Celtic, Celtic, Celtic, so I'm going to start it off hitting it right over to you BK. What's going on dude? How about that fucking game? That was that was taxing it was emotionally, mentally and physically taxing. I feel like all of us is Celtics fans were in Milwaukee that night, leaving every single possession kit you know, dribbling every ball shooting every shot right alongside them. Every time the ball left somebody's hands to go towards the rim for the seas. I was an emotional wreck. I was in a glass case of emotion. Can you relate?

Rob Kelly:

Yeah, bro. So I said this to you guys. I smoked the first cigarette that I've smoked in 15 months back during that buck in game okay, like since we first I quit when we first started the show. I had to smoke one I bumped one off my neighbor because I was like, bro, I can't deal with the stress of this game. It was It was unbelievable man from I

Dave Clarke:

was smoking but I have no accolades to that got ruined. My my street got ruined by my own lack of fucking discipline and willpower. I can't blame the Celtics.

Rob Kelly:

So you got that up on me? Yeah, bro. It was. It was honestly the most rewarding but stressful game that I think I've watched for this group of Celtics. You know what I mean? Like we've been through a lot with this core like the Tatum the Browns are shockingly for a while now. Yeah, man. And for them to show us the old Celtics again, at the beginning of that first quarter. They shared it and then rebound. To what we saw it in the fourth quarter, which we'll get to is just it was so rewarding to see just the dog come out. And all of them it wasn't just Tatum wasn't just brown wasn't just big buck and playoff owl. It was talking about that. It was the whole team and top to bottom. They just looked like dogs in that fourth quarter. They will be like a team that knew that they were playing like shit. And we're like, Listen, guys, this is fucking it. This is it. And they felt it and executed perfectly. And he's a great coach. It was just like down the line, man. Yeah, I'm so happy.

Dave Clarke:

I'm so yeah, you know, just as a quick plug this week on the 617 were releasing a show called championship DNA used to be called something else when it was over here on MTP. But we're releasing a show where we basically recap the 2008 The theme of the show is really recap old New England championships. But this week for fitting reasons we're doing that too. As an eight Celtics, go check that out on the 617 The link will be in the show notes. I think it coincided perfectly with this game to be released. And I know this is right up your alley, Bobby, but I'm here with you now, like I know that you're always the one trying to get us hyped. But I'm always trying to be a little realistic. Ray's always trying to be a little realistic. I'm fucking here. Like I'm full on like, my eyes are rolling into the back of my head. I because it's reminding me not necessarily of specific moments that happened in 2008. Because I feel like the stuff that happened in 2008 is singular. It happened with a singular group of guys that play basketball certain way. And like we talked about this ad nauseam over on the 617. Please do go check that out. It's a great show when you're done here, but it's that feeling of something special happening against the and it you know, whatever happens the reason I'm okay saying this now, because you know, I'm freaked out about jinxes like all the fucking time. The reason I'm okay saying this now is that I'm at the point where no matter what happens, I'm proud of them. No matter what happens from this point forward, whether we get our fucking face punched in Boston again, and we go down or we choose winner remaining games and move on. I'm proud of them for the mentality that they've showed. And I'm for the AI if we went out if we went out tomorrow, if it was like that's it, you don't get to play any more games. It's over. It's done. Boston goes home. I would be for the first time in a long time optimistic going into the offseason and saying to myself, well, with a couple of additions or a couple of tweaks. I think we have a core that can win a championship now. We don't even have to address that right now because it's too too With the defending champions after a sweep of what was a lot of people's favorites, right? It's another,

Rob Kelly:

never the Vegas is second favorites. Yeah. So that would have been fine. I was at the beginning of the postseason,

Dave Clarke:

that my experience of watching teams win championships has been at the ones that do it. Always. And I don't mean that hyperbolically I mean, that literally, always overcome adversity. And this is a season a postseason, where we're watching them consistently overcome adversity. This book series has been borderline hard to watch at times with how difficult it clearly is to be a player on either team inside this series because the Bucs are the number one defense in the playoffs right now. You know, like they came to play the same way that we play they're doing to us what we just did to the next and we're standing up. That's the difference. We're standing up. We're not folding. And I think just to focus specifically on the last game. There was a moment there was a moment where it was like, does this like you said it was the was the old stuff clicks up until I think the end of the third quarter? Right? And then they stood up and they were accounted for, you know, they everybody stood up and said, I'm gonna do it. It's Jaylen brown taking shots that are making me go like No, no, no, no, not that shot, but it's like they put he hits it this time. You know what I mean? It's like no, fuck that. They're not fucking around. We need an answer right now. So he goes and gets it. It's Jayson Tatum having a fucking stinker. And then lighten it up in the fourth quarter. You know, and still taking those shots. Not dumb hero ball nobody's moving everyone static watching him play type shots. Good looks that he should be taken and he should be making you know anybody not shine image on a Florida, man. Yeah. grown adult basketball shot. Right. Yeah. So I think you know, that's the theme here. And I think that's the thing that's got me so fucking fired up. You know, happy

Rob Kelly:

way before you know how happy I am to hear you say this. Because listen, the special factor is is so easy. So good. It's so clear. A reminds me so much of like, the I know, you're a baseball guy. But like the 2018 or 28 2018 Red Sox. You could see

Dave Clarke:

I mean, I watched that postseason. And I there's actly what you're talking about,

Rob Kelly:

there's something special about the way these guys go about their business. You know,

Dave Clarke:

when I remember a very specific line, my dad said to me when when Liverpool got the coach that they got, he was like that went on to win a ton of shit for us. And we're like, you know, still on course this season and win a bunch of stuff. And my dad's a very practical guy, you know, he's very, very straightforward guy. He was like, I don't know, there's a sense of destiny about Juergen Klopp, and Liverpool and then being together. There is something like I mean, I'm not religious, I don't believe in God. But if I did, I would do it through sports. You know what I mean? Like a great, that's, that's the thing, where I feel the universe tingling around me. And, you know, maybe it's just humans finding patterns and shit, I don't know. But what I do know is that when you look back on this series, win or lose it what they did in that in that game, for it was special. It absolutely was special, because it's not a gamer. You're supposed to win, by the way things were going. So to get down on a practical level after we just did the man that filter. It's all the way from outer space.

Rob Kelly:

I want to check that show up. Yeah, yeah. Well, it

Dave Clarke:

does a really good movie, David Bowie did a movie in the 1970s. Man Who Fell to Earth, it's a good one. It's a little avant garde. So you might want to talk a little bit before you put it on. But it's worth the watch. But I digress. So let's talk about let's talk about key players in this series. You guys did a great show last week, about about about the series when we were down to one and you were talking a lot about Yiannis onto the Kuhmo specifically because obviously he's the best player in the series on paper, right? He like Katie was so there are some parallels. Unfortunately, Giannis Antetokounmpo is the kind of guy that if you limit his scoring, he can still get, he can still drop dimes on you. If you limit him in his movement, he can still he'll still get 15 rebounds. You know, my friend describes him as the guy that won't let you make in 2k. Like, you'll make him make a guy seven feet tall, and you'll want him to be also really fast and be able to really dribble really well, but 252 Yeah, 2k I'll be like, no, no, no, yeah, nobody's like that. You'll be like, What about yawn? It's gonna be like, Well, you can't be honest. Okay, cool. So it's a game of limiting Him, you know, and he definitely went off and destroyed us in game three. And I think you know, we all sort of accepted that as inevitable. What do you think we did write against him? Specifically in the context of switching owl on to him for the majority of the game. I know Grambling was was in foul trouble. But owl getting ran by him downhill but still being able to sort of body and make him tired as you see him at the end of the game. His hands are on his knees. Your studies have asked for long Gaston was because anytime he wanted to come near the rim out beat him up. Right. So what do you think we did? Right? What do you think we can improve going forward? Do you think that strategy is going to work again? What kind of honest are we going to see an in game five in pocket?

Rob Kelly:

What's so scary about Giannis Antetokounmpo is a legacy we touched on this last week. It's a he can affect the game and like you just said in so many different ways, it's like even when his shots not falling, you still let like Like we've been talking to you still feel like he just dominated you for four quarters and then you look at the box score and you're like, holy shit he shot 32% from the field like it didn't he's gonna like try every play we've gotten every right every possession he makes something happened at the big thing to me was a in that second half, we eliminated a lot of second chance, second chance points that he was getting because he was he and the Bucs were dominating us on the offensive boards and the first half the Saturday afternoon. So Rob Williams, I think played a factor. They're huge. Yeah, huge, because, you know, like you can do everything to get a body on Yan is but when he's just the biggest man on the court. There's not much. Yeah, I mean,

Dave Clarke:

Daniel, out rebound. Jonas is like watching a child play with his dad's in a driveway. It's not just not a good look. And then we'll we'll go on to talk about the negatives of some of the players and I've come around to a couple of your opinions but I hope you've come really nice one of mine when we talk about the role players will later but continue.

Rob Kelly:

But so with the honest man, it's so I honestly feel like he's the reason we won that game. Because I don't so Bill Simmons did a whole thing about be honest, his likability coming into this series and how like you can't talk to someone and then be like, fuck, yawn. It's a yawn. It's up. What? What? How to fuck do you hate? I think I hate honest now, man, and I think the Celtics do too. That's the

Dave Clarke:

trick in Boston, the Celtics can and will hate me, like make their fan base make the most likeable person in basketball hateable. We did it with Magic Johnson. We could certainly fucking do it with the honest answer to Kupo no problem,

Rob Kelly:

bro and him. I don't know if he thinks we are those soft Celtics. Still, I think I kind of think he did. When he jammed on Horford and gave him that look broke. You saw a fire Get Lit under this team. I think I saw a stat earlier that like since that place since you honest got that technical. We outscored them 63 to 48 for the rest of the game.

Dave Clarke:

So that was the moment I really do hope that was the moment because I think that I've seen that moment. Play out against us. Yeah, number of times, you know present. Like specifically you remember the Lebron right and Tatum's face dagger three from the corner in that I forget what year it was I'm not good with yours. But in one of the years we went to game seven with the cap

Rob Kelly:

Yeah, it was I was at that game. Yeah one where Terry Rozier was like one of 96

Dave Clarke:

Yeah, yes, exactly. Exactly in that same playoffs Yeah. Harden also missed like 37 Fucking shots to against the Warriors. So it was just like a weird weekend or whatever. But I wouldn't say it was the 70s

Rob Kelly:

It was the year we had Kyrie Kyrie was out and Tatum and brown brought us to Radisson at ECF,

Dave Clarke:

Korea.

Rob Kelly:

Did we keep going keep going?

Dave Clarke:

So these moments right where you know that they're going against you? I feel like there's an alternate universe in the multiverse somewhere where Giannis Antetokounmpo IAM is that on now? He looks at out of the way he does. And collectively the team and the fan base go like fuck, but for some reason, and I'm not sure what that reason is. Maybe it's because it was Al Horford and his specific reaction. But for some reason when that happened, I feel like they just got pissed off. You know, they just got pissed off and and it led some sort of fire underneath the I mean, we've talked at length about the mentality switch. But yeah, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Like that was the you know, in retrospect, especially that was the moment that sort of switched everything and sort of showed us what the mentality of this team actually is.

Rob Kelly:

I think me in an owl when they went back to the bench because I think somebody called timeout right after that. Day went back to the bench and I feel like are you gonna let this dude do that to us? You're gonna let him stare us down and think that he's in our head? No, no, he's not in our head. We're in his fucking head and you just saw something turn man and I love all the memes that came out because of this. The the I saw one that was like Al Horford face on that is the definition of I bet. Yeah, no, no,

Dave Clarke:

I'm sure he was. I loved his wife. Being like, I've seen that face before. This is what the books fucked up. I've seen that face and

Rob Kelly:

it's a sister.

Dave Clarke:

Or was it a sister?

Rob Kelly:

Bro, there's so many other comments are like everyone else is kind of awkward. That's

Dave Clarke:

I just thought I'd be mad. But Anyway, point being I think what was so smart coaching wise in that moment is is you know, uh, you know, my disdain and resentment for all things, Van Gundy in the NBA any one anytime. Any one of those two chuckle fucks gets on the microphone and I have to listen to him attempt to talk about basketball. Like they did fail their way into head coaching jobs and then fail that way right fucking back out of them in their careers. Anytime I have to listen to it, it drives me fucking bananas. But I what I really like, I hate when I agree with them. I hate when they're saying stuff and I'm agreeing with them because that almost certainly means the Celtics aren't doing great. But what I really enjoyed is that Jeff, no, Stan this week. I mean, you know, six, one half a dozen of the other dumbfuck As dumbfuck But Stan van Gundy kept being like, why is Al Horford still on Jonas? You gotta put Grant Williams on Jana so he wouldn't shut up about it right. And to a point I agreed with him up until that exact moment you're talking about that was the moment where I was like, you can't take out off him now. You have to live it like you've got to let them go out there ball and play ball. You've got to let them go out there and play ball and Grant Williams also has like four or five files at this point. So it's like you can't give up on it. You got to let him fucking go. The fact that he shimmy shook later on in the game gave him a little fucking razzle dazzle went right on him right now. I think he didn't even like go left or like do anything fucking weird. He went right right. Got up slammed the fucking ball in his face and then gave a little fucking give a little the old Texas one two on the fucking way down. You know?

Rob Kelly:

Incidental elbow. Yeah, little Grey Poupon

Dave Clarke:

mustard on the end of it sent him to the floor and I don't think it was his base or his fatigue that kept him on the floor for that wrong. I think it was his fucking the fact that you al Horford just blew by him and jammed on him and I get that it's a bit of a Brady or lacquer situation in that I don't think Giannis Antetokounmpo is the pianist is is expecting him to full on take him to the whole I think I just don't think he's expected to do that and he does it and it's awesome.

Rob Kelly:

Right you could you see it on your list. You could see it on your on his face when out by him. Yeah, this is like, oh, what? What just happened

Dave Clarke:

because nobody expected it. Nobody expected to just go out and but I think that's that's al Horford for you like that's been al Horford, hawks, Al Horford Celtics. Al Horford, like he's always been a baller like that. You know, he's always been a leader. And I think for him, too. Yeah, of course he honest is going to take him if you want him at the youngest hasn't been in the perimeter. He's going to hit him with a couple dribbles is going to fucking run right past that's just like the way it is. I get it. And I get a how frustrating it was to watch when it as it was first happening. But the fact that he's left them on him because they they realized the most damage he's going to do to us is in the paint, so let's just leave out on him. If he takes him, if he takes him downtown a couple of times, we'll try and slide and help well in the paint house is going to fuck him up. Like he's gonna lose a couple battles. He's gonna fuck them up. He's gonna chop them, he's gonna bump them he's gonna fuck and he's gonna play some defense on him. You know? And you could see how tired Jana was by the end of it. I think that it's the most crazy statline for a guy who, like you said is sort of responsible for them losing that game, you know, like pulling up from three and I'll just give them to like it was the hour versus IANA show. I'll just like taking like three steps back and you know, you go ahead shoot that it was just them playing each other. You can see that like, and if you're Jonas, like it was take my Celtics hat off for a second say I'm a Milwaukee Bucks fan. This is the Milwaukee Bucks podcast missing the point. Fucking fear the fucking deer or whatever, right? Whatever stupid shit. They say in that godforsaken hellhole of a state. It's a Packers thing. Honestly.

Rob Kelly:

I was just gonna say

Dave Clarke:

it's because of the baggers. The bucks are just collateral damage. But the if we're on that, I'm saying Yiannis Why are you letting al Horford sucker you into a battle? You know what I mean? Like why are you doing that you're way better player than him. You're a top five NBA player. You don't need to be going one on one with Al Horford when Al Horford like like see into your soul like that man. And as just like yeah, come on down here. Let's have us a dog fight you know and then that's how it gets 30 points while garden the best player on the court. You know and I think that's just fucking fantastic. But let's before we get on to our we've done a little Yiannis. Let's talk about drew holiday for a second I think I made the point to you before the game if we can keep through holidays six points we win the game right. They are able to go to the well on his score so easily and I'm honestly surprised. I mean he missed a lot of open looks. I think that helped us a lot. I think that Albert helped us a ton because if his three point shooting was a little bit more dialed in. I think we're in trouble in that game. Because he was left open a few times his ability to drive and pull up in the mid range is pretty fucking lethal still. And my point to you before the game is if we can limit true holiday we win the game because what they're able to do is you remember when this and you're I know you already know this this is for the audience you remember what the way the Celtics grew up the stifled Plan A for the nets, and they didn't have a plan B because plan A and this is when we kind of realized Steven you know Ray was right about Steve Nash, because it's like well where's your plan B you know, Plan A was make our scores score right and it's pretty straightforward I don't hate it but it's once we stifled that now what are you going to do and they couldn't do anything with the Bucs have done a really good job on against us is oh will stifle you honest and I heard you made make this point last week. Oh will stifle Yiannis will make him take down pull up mid range shots or give them the shot from three and let them miss or whatever will do will stifle them in those ways right. But what they can Do that as they go like well, Drew Holliday is getting penetration on them every single time. He's too fast, they don't have an answer. That surprises me what like that's, that should be the guy, we should be able to guard the best, you know? Like, why is it Marcus smart able to just live with him? You know, like, it feels like they switch really well, to get him space. And I just think we need to figure that out if we're gonna win that win this series because he's, honestly it's looking a little easy for him. And I think people are maybe sleeping on how good of a score he actually is. And he gets the most important points, like he scores a bucket right when they need him to like he's become that guy on the team. So do you agree? Do you disagree? Like, where are you at in the drew holiday conundrum? And and do you have an answer?

Rob Kelly:

So I think what it is was Drew, is he definitely felt slighted, almost, with the market smart winning the Defensive Player of the Year, because before this year, you know what it means? Drew was seen as maybe the best defensive guard in the NBA. Marcus wins that award. And all of a sudden, it's all about Marcus, you know what I mean? No one's talking about Drew and his great defense, no one's talking about these things. So he definitely felt slighted. I just don't know if he's ready to be the two guy on a championship winning team. You wouldn't have said after game three, though, right? No, agreed.

Dave Clarke:

I wouldn't have said that after game three, because after game three, him and Jana sat down. And they both had buckets. And they both had you know, they both had numbers in every column. You know, so, I wonder what changed.

Rob Kelly:

I feel like it's, as you honest, goes through goes, You know what I mean? I feel like he feeds off him a lot. And the fact that Giannis Antetokounmpo was getting challenged and not shut down, not by any means, you know, 3034 and 18. For the time, but drew man was brutal. In Game four, he was so I'm gonna go over so he was five for 22 from the feedback, Volume One of one of one of six from three. And he was a minus 23. How many points are there? 1616. So, which is what remember, you said six? And I was like, Hey,

Dave Clarke:

you're like, well, Dixwell 60 Great. You're like, well, we kept him out of the 20s. We did, right? And that's huge man is his volume was still up, though, is the thing. So uh, you know, I just because his volume was up, he takes good looks. He takes smart shots. You know, he takes good drew holiday shots. I think we got a little lucky with him last game. I just think he shot wasn't fun. If he gets, think about if he gets 26 points instead of 16 points. You know, the whole complexity of the game is different because where are those? Where are those points coming in? I don't know. You can do that with everybody. I know. You can say like, well, if Tatum was shooting better for the first three quarters, then the game would have been a different look to I'm talking about practically. What the fuck do we do to prevent him from getting 20 decent looks? You know, like because I feel like every time he shot and missed, they weren't terrible looks you know like he wasn't shooting DOM contested. Two guys on him type shots like Giannis Antetokounmpo was taken from time to time. He was missing open looks and that's just look, you know where that's not going to happen again. So we got to figure that out. You know what I mean? somehow some way or another. I just feel like he's their second guy from could take him away from them. If we like Giannis is going to do Giannis shit. But if we can take Jrue holiday out of the equation, if we can unlock that. Maybe we play a zone. Maybe we switched Jaylen brown on to him or I thought Jaylen Brown did pretty good on him I know he's a little bit long to guard a guy that fast like i don't know i don't know i just i a true drought is the guy that's like you know the the way that in a series like this there's a guy that's like living in your head. I'm like I loved you holidays. I think he's exactly the kind of player i like i he's exactly right. Yeah, I mean like I wouldn't even call him as much of a crafty guard as much as more of like a like I just want to stop and go guy like an Allen Iverson like he can cross you up he could take you inside take you back outside. He could make his own shot but he's like not and maybe a little bit undersized. I loved your holiday. So we live in in my fucking head rent free in the series. Like I'm just scared of him every time he gets the ball and I think for good reason. You know, but what do you what would you do? You know what would be your solution?

Rob Kelly:

I would make them keep shooting. Honestly, man, I just don't think he's used to this volume. He's usually has Middleton taken most of the shots. You know what I mean? So he lived up in game three, so I got nervous. Yeah, no, agreed he did step up in game three, but I just don't think he can keep it going off series. Man. I think the way that they're playing him honestly, is the way that they need to keep playing because statistically And historically, he's not a great shooter. So the fact that you forced him into thinking that he could take six threes in a game and he missed he the three

Dave Clarke:

point shooting shirt, the three point shooter, you know what I mean? He's always had that pull up, though. He's always had that pull up in and around, in and around the rim. He can finish it and around the room and he's getting penetration. So

Rob Kelly:

the reason I feel like the reason Marcus isn't having as much success guarding him is because he's so worried about everything else. That's great. Right? You know what happened? Right mark

Dave Clarke:

is like scheming on the court. You can see it like he's also like quarterback in the defense, which I think is like a huge thing that he does. I agree with you wholeheartedly because I also think they have him running around kind of bullying. Like, he had to switch to content at one point because content started to fucking light up, you know, and it was like So does he you said that and the thing I'm like what's it this who this fucking guy like who like he called to get

Rob Kelly:

killed us in that one tears we won the first game and then the Bucs won four straight when we had Kyrie he murdered us in that series too. So I just have always had this like if your memory and

Dave Clarke:

and most casual NBA fans don't know your name, you will have a great playoff game against the Celtics. Agreed. I feel like if your was the dude who was like a lighthouse shooter that played with the bra, the blonde kid he had brothers, he's like they're shooting coach now. With focus. Mo Williams No, no, no white guy. Oh Silva Dover Delgado. No, no, no, no, no, the fucking he was like he had like, he wasn't he was never good. He was like he was a decent shooter is there's like Luke something or whatever. I'll look it up. What? Luke read No,

Rob Kelly:

no, no, I

Dave Clarke:

forget his he's like a shooting coach. Now. He's like, legitimately a good shooting coach. And he was like, legitimately good shooter, but he would always light us up. That is like Tyler hero in the fucking in the heat series. Right? It was like nobody knew Tyler here. I was like, oh, it's not state skin pigment. Pretty white. You can shoot against the Celtics. I mean, like, it's just, it becomes this thing. Where are you looking it up? Yep, I can find out who this guy is now. It's gonna fucking bother me. I bet people are screaming into their radios right now.

Rob Kelly:

Yeah, I always do that when people would talk about this shit.

Dave Clarke:

Guys for you forget. It is. Plein Air LeBron TV. You'll know it right when I tell you it is

Rob Kelly:

Mark price. No, I have to just tell him to hold close to this. So we're gonna find out this guy. Yeah, it's fine. This is what normally happens on podcasts. I feel like Yeah, right. And and then they use an additional and we sound super smart because we came up with a super fast Right,

Dave Clarke:

exactly. You're gonna be like, Oh, of course when I tell you it is. Best. Let's go with the best Cavs shooters.

Rob Kelly:

I just went to the same how Korver Kyle fucking Korver. Yeah fucking love for our quarterback Yeah,

Dave Clarke:

but like that's the retirement he was lit us up he was fucking lit us up he was always wide open in the in the in the corner to just fight an absolutely murderous rage the content and I agree. Yeah, he's the Connington I think he's probably a lot much better shooter than Connington but content looks like fun you know he's lights out out there. So it's just it's very obvious to all time. All Time. Yeah, exactly. And he's like a shooting coach. Now he's like a form coach. Now it's like what he does that all make sense to me and like yeah, he had like a yeah, these are the Getting back to the original point. These are the guys. Like that motherfucker. Kyle Korver, Kyle Korver ruin se games and podcast now at this point. So getting back to the original point. I think we need to do something about these books. roleplayers. Yeah, before before we need to do something about Jonas. I think like, to your point earlier. It's like Yan has kind of be honest in the last game, like how Mike and Rayo is like to tell me Bret screwed Bret. I think Jana screwed he honest, I think he was like he got dragged down like we were talking about it in the Horford worlds. And he sort of helped lose the team lose the game for his team. Now, when they come back to Boston, we can't let them do what they did to us in game one, which is punches in the mouth or they get a little shocked and then like, not recover, which I think I mean, it sort of is what it is like, you know, we won that won the series before in four games and like it took us a little time to get up to speed.

Rob Kelly:

I think that version is over, man. I don't think that I would hope so. I don't see this team not responding. And that's why like, so that's why I always say you got to weather the storm. You have this team is close, man. They will make a comeback. It's just a matter of time. And they're

Dave Clarke:

starting to develop that. That thing that like really, really good warriors teams could do. Like, it's not they're down 10 Like how you would expect this specific iteration of the Celtics to come back or they're down 12 They got to come back. Okay, now it's eight. Okay, now it's six it's eight again. Oh, well don't David they did that thing in the last series where it was like wait, we're only down for broke. Did that happen? It was like lab lab lab and it was like oh shit. Okay, this

Rob Kelly:

is what happened early in this game. Do you saw it? Like remember I did. They took that first lead and was like, Bro, that's such a big lead for them to take because we looked like dogshit right in that first quarter. Right and they came back to dafuk elite. I want to make one point about the roleplayers before go on to arch take the floor. Bro. I think it's so big. That Chris Middleton is not in this series. Can you measure right now Jaylen Brown has Grayson Allen and Pat content that's an event that's been rolling off his grace and I hate Grace grace

Dave Clarke:

and I was my least favorite supposed to hate him they made him in a lab to be hated by NBA

Rob Kelly:

100% Me he moved to do you know what I mean? You just start right and he

Dave Clarke:

was like a prick dude to yet. He was like a shy you'd be nervous if your sister was hanging out with him. You know, you're like

Rob Kelly:

100 just to go near fucking gray on our good basketball

Dave Clarke:

player but serious date rate vibes. Yeah.

Rob Kelly:

So I wasn't going to go there. But he said

Dave Clarke:

we said it suddenly already. I don't know why he had to say it. I'm I don't know. I just want to say to my grace, fuck

Rob Kelly:

me. I mean, we get into podcasts there. ration our date rate vibes. That's the title of the episode. So yeah. Gonna be

Dave Clarke:

the title of a fucking New York Magazine article a few years ago he does have fun.

Rob Kelly:

Front Cover Rollingstone see if Middleton is covering JB full time, and it's not Alan and Connington switching off.

Dave Clarke:

You don't know if he has the game through the game for that he has Yeah,

Rob Kelly:

this series is so different to me, man. I think we'd be we'd be in trouble if that was the case. Because listen, Middleton is bred to defend guys like brown and Tatum. Yeah, the one answer the Bucs don't have is someone to defend Brown and Tatum on every possession. I think it's so huge that they're not in there. And going forward next year. We need to get someone who who fills that backup role, or I don't even know so I like to have a Marcus Morris back in the day that

Dave Clarke:

was perfect. Exactly. It's like I didn't want him to be as important of a figure on the team as he was or whatever you thought he was as or as he thought he was or as he like needed to be sometimes because like we sucked, but if you took out like if you could if you had like an ideal world of a perfect world where you have Rob leaves a full minutes playing at his best and you could just like pluck Daniel Theis and this is a good transition into actually our role players if you could just plucked Daniel Theis minutes right out of there. And you make a Marcus Morris or Markieff Morris or, you know our, uh, you know, I'm not really sure what Steven Jackson's deal is these days if Bobby jumps from like, like a guy that can just go it. Yeah, exactly. Like Carlos Boozer back in the day. You know what I mean? Like that those like someone who just come in? Maybe it's grant, you know, maybe it's grant if we got somebody that could maybe control Giannis Antetokounmpo a little bit better and not like our six six fucking or, you know, undersized power forward. I feel like Grant Williams could play that role. I think he could definitely do some shit to Kris Middleton. We'll see. I mean, you know, I'm sure those matchups will happen down the road if these teams are sticking with but to to move on to the Celtics roleplayers I'm gonna start with Daniel Tice. Because I think of coming around. I think it's a matchup situation. Like, I think that there was things he could do on the floor against the Brooklyn Nets that were effective. And I think that they didn't really need to worry about him so much. And the guys that he was guarding, it's like, you know, we had Tatum kind of do a good job when I went to KD and there wasn't like a huge giant big man to like, destroy us down low to exploit no ties. But something happened in that last game where I was like, You know what, it's not even that he's I was you would talk shit about him and I'd be like, he's undersized and he's like, trying his fucking best and he's working hard. And he's in there getting like, you know, he's trying to take charges and he's doing all the kinda all the dirty work, you know, and I like players like that. But in this last game, I don't know if it was instructions from the coaching staff or whatever, but he did so much stupid shit.

Rob Kelly:

Right? Like he's the only guy on the subject that looks like he doesn't belong when he's on the floor that you know, he got beside me to catch up.

Dave Clarke:

No, no, you didn't cut me off at all. I'm just it's just the it's the dumb fuckery that got me in the last game. Yeah, it took two back to back three point shots when we like we're done,

Rob Kelly:

bro. That's eight and it's things like that that were killing me. He didn't do that in Brooklyn series but it would be like that on defensive end where he would get caught out of position you got to be about halfway to Tang right which is player great defense. And then all of a sudden the nets are back in the fucking game. Katie got rolling a little bit. Why? Because Daniel Theis couldn't fucking get out onto the three point line fast enough or he didn't see that backup coming. Or it's just I feel like me doesn't honestly I feel like me doesn't like him that much because because

Dave Clarke:

you can see the floor for the first two games there was a moment where

Rob Kelly:

physical enough man he's not so many things. Listen, digitizes who he is. All right. Well, I'm happy we got him. We got rid of Schroeder for him. So you know great amazing

Dave Clarke:

in a different series. You might be able to play a role but I agree with you essentially. I also think I was I was so fucking angry. I mean, I was alone in my house watching the game thank God there was no like other humans around but there was a moment off a fucking rebound from a free throw. And he had position on Brook Lopez and I get the brook Lopez a monster like and I get that he's huge. We had fucking position on it. You know what I mean? If you have your fucking ass backed into the dude, and the balls falling towards you, if he can't Randy Moss you in that situation just put it back up because you got to leave your feet. And I watched no tiger it's like not leave his feet and I was like, Are you fucking kidding me? I would have benched him for life. If that was me. I mean, this is why I'm not a head coach and very reactionary individual but I would have benched him for life at that point it's not it's just unacceptable it especially if you're what's essentially considered a big man. Can't be lettin dudes fucking Randy Moss you like that over the time. Anyway, yeah, I'm with you on time. I don't like see him on the floor especially not in this specific series because the Bucs are too long or too strong or too athletic. They got too many guys that that they can just happily bring onto the floor to bully Daniel Theis they he looks he's like chum in the fucking water for them and they see him in there if we had a surge of pockets hyper you know difference you know like is someone someone along those lines just come in and kind of bump with those guys inside for a little bit take a little their energy away Sure. But that's not what Tice is doing. So I just I'd almost rather the big tall Australian fuck that we got rid of what was the Baines? Yeah, I've read you know, I don't percent I don't think he's a basketball player as Daniel Theis but I think that he would get in there and fucking get more and more dog he had a dog and a Grammy in there. You know? Fuck it. Like I need something along those lines. Because it Daniel Theis it. I know who you're going to next, moving right along to the derrick white conversation because I get to your hard on him. I get why it was even tough for me to argue. I remember I was listening to last week show you and Mike and Ray and you were given Derrick white the business and I was like well, I don't know. And I like looked it up. I looked up his stats and is the stats where they are in a better a better is pretty tough. They're pretty tough. Game three, I think he was like, oh for six from three. And he was oh for however many from the field and he did nothing. It was a terrible statline and I get that he's kind of in there to do defensive shit when I think he had a fucking unbelievable defensive game Gameforge we'll get to but offensively I think because of the nature of this tea. And because of how this team sort of operates on a mentality level, which we've touched on a few times and a few different ways in this podcast so far. Because of that, I think Derrick White didn't get to be a little bitch. And I he didn't get to like freak out. And they were still like, take your open shots. Dude, you can hit your open shots, and he missed like his first one. And then they sort of started falling and they started falling in key moments. He was in the right place at the right time a lot. He made the smart pass a lot he penetrated at the right time. And he's also secretly kind of our only guy other than Tatum and brown that can play a little in and out ball, Marcus. So I think Marcus's game is that once he gets in, he's trying to make the killer Pass, which I don't hate. And if he's like in the pain, he's either wants to restart or he wants to make the killer pass. I like the idea of having somebody on the floor like Derrick white, they can dribble the ball in fuck their rotations little bit and then take it right back out to the perimeter and see where we're at. Again, I liked that game it in a point guard personally. So where are you at on him? I mean, you were out on him completely. The experiment was done. We had scrapped it the Manhattan Project was over. But daddy come around at all. I'm not trying to be your words, because I understand why you were mad. But if you come around at all a derrick white you see what he's bringing to the team? Or is it still like I don't know. It's frustrating.

Rob Kelly:

So it No, I never. So I never. And I said this when we were dogging him last time. He's like, listen, I understand how vital that trade was to our season.

Dave Clarke:

And that was the point I I'll give you credit for that. Because that point was we needed to consolidate the roster. And I thought about that in this last game when I thought about you saying that we needed to consolidate the roster. And we made the right out moves in order to like to bring these guys in. So I agree with you wholeheartedly on that point, just for the record,

Rob Kelly:

but thank you. And you know, when it comes down to like how? Yes, to sum it up? Yes, I am back in on the derrick white Train Man, I saw a stat I said to two guys, where he held bucks shooters in that game to over 15 Shooting row that is so impressive. And he has the highest plus minus out of any Celtic for the past. I think it's the past three games. And it's a plus I think it's like a plus 41 or some stupid shit like that. Like when he's on the court now. It just seems like we're a better executing team and I don't know what it is. But the one thing that was bothering me, which I feel like he kind of figured out was the trap. He was getting trapped so much in those first two games in the backcourt man where I don't know if he he wasn't expecting it what it was, but I felt like you know, they would trap him and he'd be like, Oh, shit. What do I do now?

Dave Clarke:

Do you? Do you hate his dribbling? I think I don't love how He dribbles the ball. I don't I don't love how he possesses the ball. And I think that I don't

Rob Kelly:

like the way anyone on the Celtics travels.

Dave Clarke:

I like Jaylen Browns dribbling I'm like Jayla give it to give it to

Rob Kelly:

the subject. I don't have anyone that I feel comfortable dribbling the ball for more than 10 feet. That's where he hit me like a paver searcher. That's it. Yeah, you're

Dave Clarke:

you're paving Prichard. I'm actually like, I've actually come around on him to the point where I'm like, for literally that reason. Because when he gets the ball wet, like when they've tried to press us full court in any way. I feel like we get a little rattled sometimes, and when or when they try to press us on a rebound when we haven't fully secured the ball when it goes to Prichard. I'm like, Okay, we're good, we're good. We're good. We're good, because he's like, small and he just fucking threw the ball up. And that's all I need right now. Nobody's like steal the ball from them. No one's going to try it. cuz he's like that kind of player. Maybe after my back has handled it

Rob Kelly:

we're just said I'm back in on Derek What am man I'm still not all the way in offensively I still think it scares the shit out of me every single time he pulls up for a jumper I don't

Dave Clarke:

want a wide open through. I really don't. So, like a shooting for him. I think they'll start to drop. I

Rob Kelly:

feel like he's out of his head. Now. I think that was a big problem, too. You know what I mean? Like those first couple games, man, you could see it that not only did every Celtic fan hate when he was shooting ball, but he hated when he was shooting the ball. And that's a problem, man, Derek White is a he's a he's an emotional guy. He's like an emotional leader. He's that type of guy. So if he's in his own head, and he's doubting himself and he's not thinking this ball is going in, then we're in trouble but the defensive prowess that he brings now, man, I gotta say like that turn, turn me around completely. I saw that stat over 15 shooting. And you know, I'm all about like the advanced metrics all that shit. His advanced metrics are off the fucking charts in the past two games man he is by far the most efficient defender on the Celtics for the past two games it is not even close. So I'm back in on Derek Blaster

Dave Clarke:

is that you know, we did we did talk about Marcus is has to do a lot right now.

Rob Kelly:

Right? No, yeah. So I feel so to go to markers real quick to I feel like what it is, is Derek White is taking the role that Mark has had a lot during the regular season because we had Rob doing the free safety roamer roll where he's just everywhere fucking everyone up. And that's against the books though it right and I can't but I feel like the person who can is Marcus, you know what I mean? Marcus can switch on to any one besides Yiannis?

Dave Clarke:

It still will. If you like I'll fuck him up.

Rob Kelly:

Yeah, I'll swap that shit out of the air. I believe that of so. But I feel like that's what we're seeing is widest turning into the guy where you like, Hey, you go on him. You follow that hit? You follow him? And you do not let him score easily. And he's executing it perfectly. Man. I don't know. I was so out. I'm so shocked.

Dave Clarke:

It's frustrating to watch a guy fucking you know, take wide open looks.

Rob Kelly:

When you know when you know what he can do to you know what I mean? That's what was really buff. befuddling to me. I'm gonna use that word why, but puddling to me is he was shooting I think he shot like 40% Since we acquired him in the office and yeah, the trade deadline. And then in the playoffs. He was like 19% from the field is like, what is is a moment too big for this dude.

Dave Clarke:

I can't get what happened to get worse from the moment gets bigger, you know, but I think mentality helps. I think he was still in his head. He took an early open three that didn't go in though. I was like, I haven't expected to make that I'm like, you guys shake those fucking cobwebs off dude. And I think he kind of did. I liked also our fun little joke about how he reminds you of the guy you make in 2k. When you first get into the league, and you're like, just your stats are so bad you can't get by anybody. So you're just trying to play defense and you're trying to pass the ball and it gets challenging you may grade up get a teammate grade up and you're like I gotta take a wide open look I feel I believe in myself to hit the like perfect timing on my shot meter but it's really small window because the shooting you know, shooting slow so it does remind me that sometimes but I do think he had a great game for and I hope he can he can long may it continue.

Rob Kelly:

So in the other any other discord I saw someone put out there and I actually kind of agreed with it that Derek white reminds them of a point guard Rob Williams, where it's he he plays great defense. He does all the intangibles. But you don't really trust him offensively. He can do some things, but he's very limited offensively. If he's not in the right situation. He's not going to go up in that game.

Dave Clarke:

He can't right now. But he right now I feel like there's a world where Derek white becomes a pretty efficient scorer to be honest with you.

Rob Kelly:

He was in the past I mean, was in the bubble. was San Antonio that years and

Dave Clarke:

count everybody's fucking weird that year, the Lakers won a championship that year for God's sake. And they're not they're all at home right now. That's how much of an aberration that was. Just need to get that little

Rob Kelly:

because the old guys got like five months off, so don't do Yeah,

Dave Clarke:

I mean, whatever. We'll see. Fuck those guys. So moving right along to. Let's see, let's go on to the stars. Because I feel like Jaylen brown deserves a lot of credit. I think for obviously his the Jaylen brown game, which will be commonly referred to as the Jaylen brown game in this series where he just fucking started the game off just shooting lights out and just being all over him. It was a big response from him. I feel like it's the guy that has a shitty game and it's not about what happened in the game. It's about what you did after and how you respond. And I think he responded really well. How do you think he played in game four? Would you like about him? What do you not like about him? I personally felt like he hit shots. He had answers a lot, which I really enjoyed. And and I think he stepped up when he needed to and I think he was shooting with confidence even in situations where his confidence maybe should have been lower because he hadn't been playing that great and I liked him defensively. But where are you at? Have a JV right now.

Rob Kelly:

Yeah, so that came. I think it was game two. Was it game to game two? Have we talked since then? Did we have done

Dave Clarke:

we have done? We got our asses whooped. Well, we didn't get our asses. What was the point? tenths of a second game? And game three.

Rob Kelly:

So yeah. Came to man, he was so unbelievable in that game. And I haven't seen JB play like that. And I mean, I don't know that since since his injury last year, but JB was awesome this year, but he wasn't putting up 30 points at all this year. Really this past game, though, right? So I feel like what it was the reason we didn't see JB go off is because he knew that this needed to be Tatum's game because of how shitty Tatum was in games. Yeah,

Dave Clarke:

yeah, you have to really think like that.

Rob Kelly:

I know. But But I really I feel like he knew he needed to be a role player saw inside of Tatum. And then as soon as I'll also took over, you know, he definitely took a side seat to that. But he was doing the intangibles like you just said, Man, he's playing great defense. Everybody score 18 points. And game four. Yeah. So so he I mean, he had a good game. It wasn't anything that jumped off the page, but it was everything you needed him to do and points to get to the right time. Yeah, for sure. To 513. And, you know, I just think one of

Dave Clarke:

those three point buckets was when it was like a low percent that he was like, guarded. And if he missed it, we would have stayed downtown, but it brought us down seven, like something around that range. And it was like, This is fucking going in and type shot like he just he just pulled up and took it. And he went in and was like, okay, cool. This is the kind of play we need. You know, like that was one of those two, three parts was a big bucket. Because it's context matters, right?

Rob Kelly:

Yeah. And I just feel like with JB man, I brought up the comparison last time I don't know I don't know if you heard or not. But Jeff, he reminds me so much and Jeff Green every single time I remember you guys talking about it's just because it's

Dave Clarke:

like their freak athletes. And there might be a point where you are relying on your athleticism because you spent your whole life relying on your athleticism and it works because you're way more athletic than anybody else. But then you get to the NBA and you got to develop some shit. I think the difference is Jaylen Brown has the basketball IQ the brain the work ethic to develop all that stuff outside of Jeff Green sort of being like,

Rob Kelly:

I can just be an athletic Yeah, I

Dave Clarke:

could just get good, whatever. Like it's fun. And I think that was Jeff greens prob I think it was a mentality difference. But yeah, I agree with you. I mean, the fact that I think they came in as raw athletic specimens, you know, to the same degree and same sort of body type and same sort of game. Based on that athleticism. I think it's it's a fair enough point. But now,

Rob Kelly:

bros nothing. So what it is, is you can see that he's taken that to another level where he is still athletic like that he still makes those plays. But like you just said he does all those small things that Jeff Green never did, man and it's so big to this team that you can have Jaylen brown go five of 11 on score 18 points, but still makes such a big impact on on the eye test for sure. Yeah, and exactly. You'd normally with athletic guys, when they're not scoring, we're not making those free plays, they disappear. They vanish. And JB hasn't been doing that since game one man. So I think it's such a testament to who he is as a basketball player, what he's developed into as our career to guy too. I think that that's something that's biggest he's accepted that like, Listen, this is fucking Tatum's team, and he knows it, but he still can be there when you need them. And he's gonna He's gonna deliver man and it's just he's so special with that mentality. Man, when you have a guy who is a superstar in the NBA have a shitty game. And he's out before the next Game Shooting jump shots and threes and practicing four hours before the game. He's the first person at the goddamn stadium. It's a special mindset to have man I think I think me me has a lot to do with this. Jalen, I

Dave Clarke:

think he might have been better than he even was adjacent to be honest with you. 100%

Rob Kelly:

Hey, listen, coming into the offseason, you knew that Jalen wanted a black coach to come coach his team and he made me he made like literally he made Yeah, he was like I like prefer albite about it.

Dave Clarke:

Well, I mean, I get it. To be quite honest with you. I just think and we've talked about this before, I just think when you have a guy like who Doka who's been there who's done it, who, especially now, you know, and in the current climate as but you know, like everything that was happening during the bubble in a predominantly African American League. I don't think it's an entirely unfair thing to say like, I just want to do that. I can fucking relate to that. If I like if you're dealing Ronnie, look at Brad's team as Brad Stevens is like, come on. Jalen, fucking do it. You're like, Fuck you, Brad. Yeah. And it's like, you know, and then that's the guy sort of leading the team, when they're all sort of going through this George Floyd thing and the tensions in America at the time and the media lucky like both looking to them to speak out on it but also then castigating them on the other side by being like Joe swim, play basketball and these are all things that are gonna affect your game, you know, you say that they're not going to but they're going to like where you're at mentally is obviously going to affect your game. I mean, ask fucking Stephon Marbury if that's true or not. And I think that like I said, Go to have the sort of the to have the sort of empathy and understanding and maturity to say, Okay, well, then, you know, you want to get coached hard, but you want to get coached hard by someone that you maybe respect and can relate to a little bit more. Here's email DOCA. How's that work for you? And I think you're still rolling the dice, because, you know, he's unproven as a head coach. But at that point, you're at least looking at Jaylen and Jayson insane. And I think we were saying this in the regular season. You're looking at them and going, if you guys still have a problem, it's fucking you problem now, because we gave you exactly what you asked for. So you know, if that's what you wanted, you got it. Can you figure it out? And I think they are I think they're stepping up. I think they realize there's no more excuses. There's nothing kind of left to fall back on. They got what they asked for. And this is, it's working out. It's working out. I'm proud of them. I think they're digging deep. And I think he is coaching them better as individual players than Brad was.

Rob Kelly:

Couldn't agree more. I think, when it comes to the way I mean, he's pushing this team man, I think so. Remember, at the beginning of the season, we were so worried and questioning the way he was doing things because I felt like the same shit over again. You know, look what they looked like. To me right away. It was it was to say it was the same exact thing. And I mean, wasn't really saying much. We're like, what's going on, man? Why isn't he jumped down her throat? Like we thought he would wait. I feel like he was just building up a lot of trust. And yeah, he was he was getting them to kick in,

Dave Clarke:

right away. You know, it's just gonna be like, What the fuck, you just got here. But now,

Rob Kelly:

when me say shit, you know, it's to better this team. You know, it's because that's what it takes to win. And I feel like Jalen bought into that so hard man. He's the one to me that you see the biggest turnaround from the attitude he was playing with from just everything because Jalen, like, we all know, Jalen is a very, he's the emotional guy on the team. He's the one that's gonna speak up. He's the one that's gonna yell at guys. And it just felt like before he wasn't he? I don't want to say he was like the problem with the chemistry but I feel like he had a big portion of it is Jalen, and he's like getting into

Dave Clarke:

it with Marcus in the right row. Yeah, I was getting leaked. It was like, this isn't great, you know, like, and then it was, whose team is it? And like, all this sort of different shit. I think Mike made a good point on last week's show talking about and this will be a good transition, I think into talking about JT. I think he sort of accepted that. The kind of stuff that he was the best at doing on his other teams specifically playing a cow where you're not. It's not do right. I mean, it's a good basketball program, but it's not Duke. He was the best player on that team. Which means he's going to you know, in basketball terms is he's going to be the best shooter. He's going to be the best dribbler he's going to be you know, and in the NBA is just a little bit of a different thing. There's different levels to it. And I think him seeing where he can fit around Jayson Tatum is was a necessary thing for him to do a very mature thing for him to do and arguably makes him the most important piece of this current team because he had to do that thing you have to Pippa fie himself, Pippin find himself and start to get good at typify was better typify is better. He had typify himself in order to and check his ego a little bit. I mean, ever and I don't mean that in the sense of like, Who are you going for? Can you go you get paid millions of dollars? I mean, that bullshit. Every human being has an ego, every human being goes into their life and their experiences, especially in the workplace with a certain level of ego. Am I doing good enough? Does this person respect me enough? These are thoughts that every human has to deal with on any workplace. And the stakes are arguably higher and in a multi billion dollar industry, like, like sports and athletics, and when you're on TV all the time. So those pressures they mount. So I think it's a very difficult thing that he did by sort of turning around and saying, I'm not going to be it's not that he's a role player. But he's a role player. Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, he's not a role player in basketball terms, but he plays a very important role when he needs to, and especially he's gotten especially good at recognizing when it's Jeb time, you know, when it's okay. And it's not, it's it to me it doesn't read like Get the fuck out of the way dude, it's time for me to do it because you can't do it which used to sort of feel like to me it's like hey, man, don't worry. I got your back. You're struggling we can still have you shoot because I'm just going to up my efficiency. I'm gonna start to drive I'm gonna start to work hard. I do see I do still think he penetrates to the basketball better than Tim does. I don't necessarily think he's like silky but I think he's more direct. And I think we I any stronger and I think we need that from time to time. I wish his free throw shooting would improve because that's gonna bite us in the ass like late in the fourth quarter one day, but but I think he knows who he is a little bit more. Now he's more secure. Who he is now. And I think that that's enabling him to maybe not be the best player on the team, but be the leader. You know, because a leader doesn't put himself first as a leader puts the team first. I think that's what he's doing.

Rob Kelly:

But he needs he knows us some nights, he needs to be the best player on the court. And he can. That's right. And he can do that. And that's so key man to be able to take a back seat, right and be the one B guy on the team. But on nights that you need him to be one a for him to be like, Alright, whatever word I got to shake, I got you guys get on my back. I'm winning this game. It's so huge man. Yeah, so huge. And I'll

Dave Clarke:

tell you something, I'll die on this hill forever. The only type of person the only category of person that could have come into this team. And I just know this in my heart. There's no way to collect any data on it. But the only type of person that could have come into this team and convinced Jaylen brown to be the way we're saying he is, is somebody that was in around and actively participating in the San Antonio Spurs organization under Gregg Popovich, because that's the only guy I could have thought of before email came in, did this that could have come in and done that, you know, agree. And I think to, you know, to circle back to the original point about me coming in, he can point to he i There's no way he's not standing in in those tape rooms going when Manu Ginobli, et cetera, et cetera, when Tony Parker, et cetera, et cetera, When When Me when Tim Duncan like Timmy would do this. He's pointing to that stuff and you know, something, not a terrible fucking whiteboard to be pointing up to and and describing when it comes to? Yeah, okay. Maybe Manu could have been like the best player ever on the Charlotte Hornets. You'd heard me like, maybe

Rob Kelly:

right out of my head. I was like the Hornets.

Dave Clarke:

Like maybe you could have it. Maybe he could have been the greatest Charlotte Hornets ever fucking wear the jersey. He'd have zero fucking rings right now. You know, he'd have zero rings. So you can look at that team. You can ask them like you can give Jaylen Brown a straight up height. Would you rather you can give them a straight up hypothetical. Would you rather be the guy with no rings? Potentially no rings? That's playing for New Orleans. But they're you're the best ever publican. Like that's it like you're the Pelican of that century. Or would you rather have been the second best guy on a Celtics team? That won three you know who else was the second best guy on a Celtics team? Ray Allen was the second best guy on the Celtics team or Paul Pierce. Arguably it depends depends on who you're asking. You know who else was the second best guy on a fucking Celtics team? Fucking what's his name? Robert Parish. Or sure Robert Parish. Fucking Nam. Why can I why Kevin McHale was the Celtics. Okay, that's kind of Celtic Sea. You know these are names you remember these names? You know? You know that it doesn't have to you don't have to be LeBron and honestly I don't know if you want to be in today's NBA. I just think you want to go get yourself some fucking jewelry bro that's what it's your that's what should matter. So moving right along to who is our best player? I think very arguably very unarguably. I should say talent wise our best player in Jayson Tatum. I love a guy can have three shitty quarters and then go off in the fourth. I love that. Don't worry about it.

Rob Kelly:

And not only three shitty quarters seven consecutive garbage quarters you know it? Sure yeah. It was getting to the point where we were like What the fuck is wrong with Tatum man like what's going on? What is he doing and for him to come out and hit those shots that he was hitting man that one three that we already talked about was he was such a big boy three men and it's we've seen him hit those type of threes before but we used to get like mad at him for taking them because it was in the world. I'm

Dave Clarke:

you know what else he's it's what's a little different specifically about what you're talking about. He's not dribbling it for eight seconds before and then gunnery and then that sidestep but then the guy is kind of still on him and then he shoots and like it would go in but you'd be like slit dumbfuck shot. It was like, oh, I need to take one step and just pull up without hesitation you know, it was those type of threes and I think that's just that shows maturity and grow.

Rob Kelly:

It's you know, like remember when we were shitting on him for the COVID the Kobe Kobe lessons because because we saw Kobe is negative out of those. All we saw were like, What? What are you doing? This is the worst parts of Kobe that we hated that we loved that Laker fans hated but now man, he has such a killer mentality that like in that fourth quarter once once that fourth quarter started you knew he was about to take over. You could see it in his eyes many he hit that first three, because that's what was the one he was like one of six one of seven going into that fourth quarter. Yeah. And and he just went fire man and that's when you know someone is special. We already talked about yawn as he was special because he's making an impact on the game other than scoring. That's what Tatum was doing up to that point. But Danny started scoring, and he's just so good. I can't remember another basketball player that I would that have like, had googly eyes for for this long than Jayson Tatum and I just love the way he plays the game. And I love his quiet confidence that he has about him. He was talking into the in the postgame interview. And he was saying, you know, like, it's not always about scoring. You need to come out as a star on your team and make an impact on the game. You need to leave your mark on every single playoff game if you're going to be a superstar in this league, and to hear him come out and say that and not come out and saying you know, I needed to get my shots up. I needed to do this I need this to just wants to make impact on the basketball game and make sure his team went and he knows how important he is to this team that and you see it in that fourth quarter because he just took that game over bro.

Dave Clarke:

He finished him off. He finished him off. He came in and he swung swung the final axe. I will also say that the pendulum has swung when he does shoot even if he's having a bad shooting night. If it's a good look, I still want him to take it. There's no red light on Jayson Tatum anymore. You know? Like there's, there's certain players where I'm like, you know, I'll just be like, You need to stop fucking shooting like it happens. The market smart sometimes it definitely happens with Daniel Tice after like, one shot it sometimes. Sometimes it happens with Jaylen Brown. Because he can just be really often and I haven't seen him correct that with volume before maybe I'm wrong. I mean, someone correct me right. I you know, I just have corrected Yeah, I don't I don't have I don't I haven't seen that happen. What we've now seen a couple of times and very efficiently in the in that game forward against the books, which is and it's something we should always remember. He shot him he shot himself out of the fucking bunker. You know what I mean? Like he was in the bunker, the Germans were throwing fucking grenades in there. And he had to get the fuck out of there. And he wasn't fucking surrendering, because he knew they were gonna shoot him anyway. So he shot his way out. He shot his way out of the bunker, and I don't hate it, you know, because the shots fell. So like you can't really argue with results. All right, we got a couple of minutes left here and I think it's only fitting to finish with my MVP, my star of the game. Hopefully yours too, because it was just like the greatest thing ever. We talked about, you know, sort of a little bit about him from the pianist perspective, but how Horford with that bro, YMCA old man, not so sure if he's gotten the game but then we start to play and every time you try to guard him It hurts. And every time he guards you it hurts and his shots dropped when he did his shots ugly but there's shots are dropping. He had 30 points against Yiannis who was guarding him. He was gardening on us. We were in there one on one we talked about the mentality of it. I fucking love al Horford. I love him with all my heart. I wanted to move into my house and I'll cook him dinner every night. I just he can he can have a percentage of my retirement plan. Like I I would give anything the shirt off my back to Al Horford at this point after that went. Well how did that feel? Let's start with me talking about his three point shooting and how fucking efficient is from out there and then let me know what you thought of his game overall.

Rob Kelly:

Yeah, man. So I just want to bring everyone back in time to this offseason, when we traded fucking a shell of Kemba. Walker straight up for Al Horford and Al Horford is now the most important player on this team. So I just want I want to shout out and give Brad credit for that because, listen, we fleeced who do we trade into a for I think it was the thunder right bro. Al Horford is the most important player on this team right now. And everyone knows it. Everyone on that Celtics team knows that if owl is there, we're gonna show up and have the fire and have the fight man and that second half so I have it up here. He played 23 minutes. He was seven of 10 from the field and three of five from three for a plus 14.

Dave Clarke:

That is remember the ones he missed? Were the ones that went it.

Rob Kelly:

Unbelievable man. The biggest thing without is that he didn't I really feel like it was the turning point when you honest dunked on him and out doesn't not give up. He doesn't back down whatsoever. Jana Cisneros. Right. Adam brought up to that to

Dave Clarke:

an old and had like Allah, you know, like you did like he's a fucking veteran. And he's always been a dog. So that's what

Rob Kelly:

Marcus has ever had is what he said best I've ever had his exact words. Yeah. And it was so it was like magical. You know what I mean? Like that game will be known forever as the Al Horford game. That's what that game is. And he's just so big for this team man. Like, it's crazy that it's gone from a guy who could barely stay on the court with the Sixers to a guy who was about to get bought out by the thunder. Maybe he sat out the end of last year. isn't the last like 30 games washed up? You know he's done is this is that you know working he's 35 and

Dave Clarke:

he's a big man. Right? So nothing to be ashamed of your 35 year old big man. Most 35 big year old big men have been turned into fucking ashtrays and glue it to fucking scrap yard by this point, you know?

Rob Kelly:

But not even fucking close

Dave Clarke:

in. Different game, bro. It's just like so crazy. It's

Rob Kelly:

I've never had I remember our first stint with us right he would spot up from three and every time if he wasn't wide open. You were like God dammit. What are you doing bro? Stop. Please, please stop shooting contested threes. This past game man I wanted the ball. You said it. You said it in the discord. Green light OWL. Owl has the green light and he wants to shoot. He could fucking shoot in that game. The two biggest plays of that fourth quarter were al Horford. Obviously yamming on Yiannis and getting the N one right, giving them that side Bo Grey Poupon Yeah, the coupon on both sides. The corner three to have ticked at first leading the fourth quarter man and it always coming around out that well,

Dave Clarke:

I want to add one member that I want to add one where like he got like, he got swatted on the fallen back and he put

Rob Kelly:

him back on Ron Lopez right. Yeah, I can't say enough about Allen that game and he made the defense go by shutting down, quote unquote, shutting down Giannis Antetokounmpo and like you

Dave Clarke:

said it and it's in a sort of intangible way. Right? Yeah. In a sort of in the way maybe, you know, maybe mentally but maybe not. Maybe not on the on the boxscore but like whatever we want to fucking Yeah, I can't say enough good things about big guy. We talked a lot about him and the honest stuff. He's fucking unbelievable. Obviously, we'd love having him and also, you know, credit to him because he looked goosed when Grant was picked up his fourth file. He looked fucking goosed, and then email had to be like back out there and he was like, Go, and he just went out and he just he had a great game.

Rob Kelly:

He was crying in the locker room after That's how much

Dave Clarke:

he put it on the table, man. He put it on the table. It was a must win game. And he's winning game.

Rob Kelly:

Al Horford perennial quote unquote winner. A guy who does everything right he does. He played maximum effort every single night. That's literally why the thunder sat him last year because they broke you're too fucking good. Stop putting in so much effort. We need to lose these games. And he doesn't have an NBA championship. You know? And so he wants this so bad me knows he wants us so bad. And I feel like that's why like once he got going, and he saw that fire now as I I think he was like out. This is your fucking game. Man. This is your game. It's time for you to

Dave Clarke:

get over. Conventional wisdom in the van Gundy would have you believe that Grant Williams should have gone out there even in foul trouble and stayed on yachts. But now you got to let out play you got to let them play.

Rob Kelly:

Can I say something about van Gundy? Real quick? I've never I've never agreed with what he's saying more than what he's saying. And this series specifically

Dave Clarke:

hasn't been so so bad. But still, from time to time. I'm like,

Rob Kelly:

I just love that he's trying to because I got to spend a couple minutes ranting about Giannis Antetokounmpo too, because I love that he's all about getting that charge on fucking Yiannis. Because that is the most bullshit was it such bullshit that this dude can come into our fucking paint we have ourselves set every fucking time and he just pulls us over all the

Dave Clarke:

charge cars have gone their way to even the review that they like no return. It's like I witnessed that exact same thing happen it's like if our feet are moving at all, even if we've gotten into you know give them time to get into position you got to like not be in there landings or whatever. It's just not consistent like the refs like I hate talking about the refs I don't want to blame them I want to win despite them but they have just not been consistent. It is a charge. And honestly I wouldn't even be so mad if they just called it for our superstar back in the other direction. But to sit this shit potatoes because Tatum pushes off like I know he pushes off it's undeniable that he pushes off. But don't call that if you're gonna not call you honest his charges or call both of them. That's all I asked. I just asked for consistency.

Rob Kelly:

Yeah, agreed 100% agreement and that's not what we're getting. But What's blowing my mind right. And I feel like this owl thing turned my mindset on it because I'm like, John is coming into this series, man. I can't stand him right now. The way that he is getting the calls. He's getting babied by the refs. But then when he does get a clear follow call, he's turning around and bitching about it like bro, what is wars?

Dave Clarke:

You think? Who are you to pitch

Rob Kelly:

about any of this shit?

Dave Clarke:

After game three? Oh, how much does it cost to get fined? You know, I can't shouldn't say anything about the rest of my you shouldn't buy diapers, bro. They were in your fucking pocket the

Rob Kelly:

unbelievable Anbu and the Marcus thing where they're tangled up and Marcus goes to help them up and he doesn't get broke.

Dave Clarke:

I like targets just fucking shaking them off. Yeah, he's like you Bro Wolfire

Rob Kelly:

he seems like such a little bitch to me lately and the

Dave Clarke:

playoffs will make you hate anyone by me. It will. I never loved him that much to be honest with you. I think you know, where I stand on non Celtics, it's got nothing to do with how fucking bubbly Your personality is or how good you are in that spray commercial. I like ballers as but you know, it's why we sometimes butted heads with the other guys on the show about my feelings about the Kyrie Irving's and Kevin Durant's of the world. Yeah, they're annoying on Twitter or like always, they'd say, they say stupid shit in press conferences, but I like watch the game of basketball. I'm not really, to me, this isn't football. You know, this isn't really about the offseason, you know all the shit that's going on? Do they take the practices I just like watching the games, and when I watch the games, Kevin Durant's fucking beast, I love his game, when I watched the games, Kyrie Irving is a fucking beast. I love his game, LeBron James, I never liked this game that much. You know, like I could objectively say it's fantastic. I could objectively say he's the best player in the world for a long, long time. But I don't know, it's just wasn't like, it's just not my thing. It's just not what I enjoy watching. And I get that he like, was shitting on my team with that game for a long period of it, but it just wasn't the kind of game that I like, enjoyed. And I like when he developed a postgame after Dirk embarrassed him in the finals. Like I liked that, like, I respected that. You're honest. To me, it's like he's a hard worker, right? I can't take that away from him. He tries for the entire game. He works hard. He has freakish technical ability for his size and his athleticism. I think that he has levels to go, I think that he there's two or three more things he can add to his game. Like the jump shot John takes that never go in. And there's two or three more things that he can add to his game that would make him clearly the best player in basketball. And he might already be he might he might, I mean they it's a little bit more arguable Now, thankfully, for the discourse purposes now that LeBron has kind of like lost a step finally, and you know, there's a lot of good players in there and it's positional and stuff like that, but I think there's more to come from him so like I'm or not, I hate him in the context of this series. I still think he's got so he's got he like he can he can go so much higher than he's already out. He's already at such a high place and I just I like watching that so I'm never gonna hate him for that reason.

Rob Kelly:

You know, it's funny hate for books, though. I

Dave Clarke:

hate the way they fucking constituted that T I the way they build the team. I'm like, I like Drew Holliday. I basically hate everybody else on the team. I hate how Chris Middleton plays. Like I hate that like I hate Brook Lopez have always fucking hated Brook Lopez. Anyway, sorry, I digress. Go.

Rob Kelly:

No, it's funny that you compare him to LeBron because I don't necessarily compare him to LeBron. Oh, no. I mean, his game though, is it's what?

Dave Clarke:

It's being freakishly more. Very, right. It's

Rob Kelly:

very reminiscent of Ryan. Taylor jumper right without that killer jumper. Yeah, that's what it is. And it's just was coming into the season. It just seemed like everything. This dude said everything he did the way he represented himself the way he played basketball. Like it was, it was it was it was all about, you know, the right way of playing and putting maximum effort not being a little bitch. And I just feel like I don't know what it is. Maybe it's because he won a championship and got a little bigger. Maybe it's just because we're in a heated fucking playoff series with him. But it's kind of just seems like he's turned into a little bitch to me.

Dave Clarke:

I think it is that we're in a heated playoffs.

Rob Kelly:

And to be honest,

Dave Clarke:

I think that series looks. It looks like you're going into a foxhole. It doesn't look fun. It doesn't look fun to beat that series. Right now. Everybody's playing their asses off.

Rob Kelly:

A little shout out to our championship DNA podcast. This series reminds me a lot 2000 2008 2007 2008 Basketball man. It seems like some jump shots. It's crazy. It is great, but it just feels like 2010 all over again first 110 wins. And you don't see that in today's NBA. And it's just crazy.

Dave Clarke:

Ya know, he made that point in the discord and I think yeah, I was thinking about that as well as I was watching it I might be why I'm enjoying it so much to be quite honest with you but uh and yeah, it's not nobody's living and dying by three 3.3 point shots are a factor for sure in this game, but it's not like oh, the Celtics have missed their first six three pointers well, they're only down four you know what I mean? It's sort of like that situation as opposed to if we do I'm not saying we will knock on wood but if we do get to the finals and we play a western conference team I think whatever that Western Conference team is we're gonna have a new problem to figure out as far as perimeter shooting goes it's just between problem prowess propaganda. I mean, I know the sons want to fuck ton of games with the Warriors kind of look like the Warriors again Anyway, whatever.

Rob Kelly:

So you killer series again.

Dave Clarke:

I take the Grizzlies, I take the Warriors I would actually I would probably take the fucking suns I feel like the East is actually harder than people are giving it credit for we're gonna have to walk through a fucking gauntlet. If we want to get to the finals. I'd much rather see the Sixers in the next series than then he just on matchups, but that's a problem for another day. We gotta gotta, we gotta get through this slog of a series. So yeah I mean that'll do it looking good again five

Rob Kelly:

yeah what reactions predictions

Dave Clarke:

to this isn't emotionally taxing series I don't even know if I can have a prediction here. I think it has to go to seven it's just this is a series that has given as go to seven games run all over it and I think you made a very good point that discord we took on quarterback so I'm not I'm not terribly stressed about it go into seventh but they've proven they can win in Boston and Mike makes the point about the referees being terrible in this series. I hate the fact that that they were clearly responding to the media comments the referees, the mandate should be whatever they say just fucking don't referee context. Referee the game don't referee what they're saying. Don't react to what they're saying in the media. Don't look at it. Don't listen to it. Just referee the game or the rules of the game. Please it that's all I'm asking for. You don't need to be like Oh, where did you guys sit in the media? We're gonna get an extra couple of kind of basketballs the worst for that. My predictions I'll definitely go into seven and if it goes to seven we'll have home court so I'm saying season seven.

Rob Kelly:

Yeah, I'm gonna agree with that season seven but listen, I can tell you one thing she's gonna win game five. The extender himself Mr. Scott foster will be the referee for Game Six. I don't know if they've already had arity but 100% scholarship versus referent Game Six bro I just don't see the Celtics losing at home and a game seven situation like we've seen when the Celtics play their game I said it coming into this game and I was very close to being right they win they win by a considerable amount and they went by ate last night so I know it was a tough road to get there but they didn't end up winning by so I just feel like in a game seven situation where it's do or die winner go home there's no way that this team with the dog and then the fight in them that they lose that game. I would love it I would love it if Mike's right and Nick close this out and said you can't possibly

Dave Clarke:

convince Pierre When innocent sick mate I mean it is happening. I would love it but you can't convince me of it. What I will say though is game for if game four is a microcosm for the entire series and it's a who blinks first situation who wants it more who blinks first in this series I think we've proven that we can we have a little bit of a deeper dig if that makes sense. We can dig a little bit deeper than these guys. And and we might if game four is any indication in because it was in Milwaukee and and they're pretty good crowd over there. And we had to dig deep and we did and I think if that's any indication I think yeah, I'd be very confident that going going to Boston with these fuckers but

Rob Kelly:

you ever been to a game seven in Boston? Yeah That shit is a lectric it's the best it's the best sporting event environment I've ever

Dave Clarke:

been want to be in a winner go home situation it's also why I wouldn't be thrilled about the suns or the heat you know like there's well just the home court thing you know just but there's a chance that like all the better records maybe still get knocked out so we'll see

Rob Kelly:

Yeah, listen two bucks gave his home court to That's what I thought they had is they handed it to us they had we don't want it guys we don't want it and so

Dave Clarke:

I'm actually glad in retrospect I mean I would have taken it either way but I'm glad in retrospect we won't game for not game three because then we have the momentum going back into Boston was in is a world where we take him back to Boston we smack them you know like we beat him bad like Game Two maybe? And like then all of a sudden this series looks different than all of a sudden I may be gone maybe we go back to Milwaukee Game Six closest pitch out in front of me like we fucked them up in the next game like I think it could be possible but yeah, I think that'll do it for for missing the point myself. DK sizzle reel BK Bob Kelly. I thought that was great show. I thought we talked about all of our big performers. And I hope that we're as happy and optimistic as we were in this show the next time we talk so until then, keep it green everybody