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March 24, 2022

Every team but the Patriots keep getting better & The Boston Celtics are an absolute wagon

Every team but the Patriots keep getting better & The Boston Celtics are an absolute wagon

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It's another day in the 2022 NFL Offseason, and another day where a team not named the New England Patriots get better, as the Division Rival Miami Dolphins on Wednesday acquired one of the top wide receivers in the NFL in Tyreek Hill from the Kansas City Chiefs.
 
With more AFC teams getting better, including the Cleveland Browns trading for Deshaun Watson from the Houston Texans and the Indianapolis Colts trading for Matt Ryan from the Atlanta Falcons, we discuss how the New England Patriots will remain relevant in a truly stacked AFC that features a completely revamped AFC West.

We also discuss the Boston Celtics, who have been on an absolute tear since the New Year, and just keep decimating teams defensively and offensively in the NBA. With the NBA Playoffs on the horizon, we'll break down potential playoff opponents, and if we think this Celtics team is for real come nut cutting time.   
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Hosts: Michael Marcangelo, Bob Kelly
Producer: Craig D'Alessandro
Tweet your questions to @MTPshow with hashtag #askMTP, email us at Craig@MTPshow.com, or leave us a voicemail on our website to be featured on the show!

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Transcript
Michael Marcangelo:

The only parallel that I could really draw and try and bring this home to you as being a patriot fan in 2022 would be like being a Cowboys fan in 1997 If Jimmie Johnson was still your coach, Troy Aikman, was still in the league didn't play for you. If Michael Irvin was still really didn't play for you, and you had to watch your team that you've been told, was constructed by a genius and has a great head coach. Suck because he let players that make those moments Great. Go because he valued himself more. Could you imagine? Could you live with yourself like, I want you to think about this long and hard. Who was a team that you didn't care about at all in the 90s in the AFC way they're irrelevant? You don't say the patriots to be an SLR or dolphin? We've got a dolphin so it will be like Troy Aikman Michael Irvin and and primetime go into the dolphins in 1996 and winning a Super Bowl and used to love Jimmie Johnson and oh, don't worry we got Quincy Carter. Like we're gonna be great it's gonna be awesome imagine that. Imagine that that's what we're living through. You don't have to be this way. You just are because you chose to be welcome into missing the point I am Michael Marcangelo joined tonight by the real BK Bob Kelly and the host and the producer I wasn't say hostess with the most described but you don't really host I just say the producer then whatever rhymes with producer Craig D'Alessandro

Rob Kelly:

Medusa the producer. Yeah,

Michael Marcangelo:

I don't. Yeah, that's great. We're off to a great start. On this episode, what we're gonna be talking about obviously is the is the wild and frantic and chaotic NFL, free agency and trade and offseason. Then we'll talk about the Boston Celtics as they continue on their run, and paint a little bit more of a clear NBA playoff picture. But, Bobby, I will cede the floor to you. What when you woke up, or when you first saw it, and you and you saw Tyreke Hill, Miami Dolphins, what did you think?

Rob Kelly:

Well, you saw my actual reaction because I was talking to you and I saw it was Holy shit. What just happened? It's just so an offseason that has been filled with shocking trade and shocking free agent decision after decision. This one to me is the most shocking of them all. I mean, yeah, there was rumblings where you know, they might not be able to afford his cap hit once he gets an extension all these things but man after seeing the Chiefs almost come short of the Super Bowl. The last thing I was expecting them to do this offseason was trade away their superstar playmaker who, who pretty much single single handedly but had the game winning play in that game against the Buffalo Bills who had you know, all these electrifying plays, and now all of a sudden he's gone and in your guys division, it's just the the series of events just to me that unfolded were just like, mind blowing, man mind blown.

Michael Marcangelo:

I mean, I mean, for those that are that are living under a rock or maybe their power has been out and their cell service has been down for the last 24 hours. Tyreek Hill was acquired in a trade by the by the Miami Dolphins with with the Kansas City Chiefs in exchange for a 2022 first round pick. A 2022 Second round pick, a 20 22/4 round pick, and a 20 23/4 and sixth rounder and instantly signed a four year $120 million contract extension that includes $72 million, guaranteed most ever by wide receiver Yeah, this is what I said in our group chat. That's top 15 QB money, like he were he he's what $30 million a year is what he's on the books for. And to your point. I think this this NFL offseason has become more like the NBA offseason like it's been gamified right now people are doing. You know, I think what the you know what the heat did back in in the mid 2000s, like mid 2010, early 2010. But what the LA Rams just did load up, figure it out. draft picks don't matter. Winning now matters the most, and you can figure it all out later. And this may seem like my opinion is this may seem like a lopsided deal. I think the Chiefs made out pretty like pretty well, because they are they're great at drafting. They know how to draft skilled players, and you just armed and you know, Andy Riedwith five more draft picks for him and the Kansas City Chiefs to go out there and either trade and get someone else or actually pick but This one hits close to home for me, Bobby. Because obviously, as you mentioned, this is in our division. This is in the AFC, the Patriots, the perennial I know I've been called or looped in to being called entiltled. And, and all this other crap about the fact that I don't want my team now to be what your team has been thanked for 20 years. Right? Because we still have the greatest coach in the history of the game, who literally just, I don't know, he must have a self loathing, I think because he hates the bill. The GM hates bill the coach. That's what I that's, I've I've been saying that for 10 years. But now in the division, let's just focus on the Miami Dolphins for now. So yeah, to that, I just can't believe that. He's gonna be the quarterback. I we can talk a little bit about that. But on that team, we have Devante Parker, Jaylen Waddle. Tyreek Hill. Yeah. MIKE GESICKI. And who did you sign today? Patriot fans. Malcom Butler who couldn't play last year? It can't run. Good for you. I can't wait. I truly cannot fucking wait. Pardon my language to see Jalen mills and and Malcom Butler just get torched by Tyreek Hill twice next year. Oh, and then don't forget you thought Stefon Diggs, that's that's what the bill. So good job. Nice job, New England. Yeah.

Rob Kelly:

And you got a corner that can't run, like you said, in response to the fastest wide receiver in the NFL getting created into your division. And, you know, I know the butler to the Patriots was ruined before that. But I mean, the timing of that. That was absolutely a reaction deals that right. They saw that deal. They're like, fuck, or shoot, we got to get Malcolm in here. We got to get somewhere. Yeah,

Michael Marcangelo:

Bill will never admit that. It's a value deal. Right? Like you just pay two years. $9 million for guy that wanted 60,000,000 3 years ago was out of the league in two. So yeah, good for you. Great. You just signed a 32 year old corner who was out of the league last year in deemed to be not adequate enough to play in Tennessee to cover Tyreek Hill and Stefon Diggs, twice each next year. What what are you doing? I would also say, the dolphins? If you really think about it, they added burners across all the offense.

Rob Kelly:

Yeah. And don't forget Chase admins to which they traded for Chase admins, as well as the subs

Michael Marcangelo:

and Raheem Mostert. But he signed it like that guy just runs straight fast. That's it. I mean, so, you know, we've been talking a lot on on this show, over the last couple of months, about how the Patriots need to adapt? Well, they're going to have to this year or after this year, because they are going as it's currently constituted, you can save this you can clip it, Craig, they're going to get their asses handed to them by through to better teams in the division. And, you know, I think now after spending what 180 million guaranteed dollars a year ago. 2022 is a rebuild. It might be it might be a nine a year. And then what now you have to go down you have to go spend another 100 million dollars next year if you have it. Just to catch up to the fucking dolphins. That's what we're doing. So I'm a little upset. I

Rob Kelly:

don't know if you can tell. I couldn't tell it off now even a little bit. But yeah, it's it's crazy that so the Patriots have gone from ethnic descent to a patriot thing. So actually first, before we go to the Patriots, I do want to talk about dolphins real quick. The the speed that this team has had, like you just alluded to man is top notch and I've never seen anything like it. They now have they now have Jaylen Walker was one of the fastest players in the NFL. He's one of the shittiest players in the NFL already. So so they already had one of the fastest players on the outside. And then you had literally the fastest player in the NFL, right? You add Chase admins to the backfield. who's one of the better receiving backs in the NFL. You have to have behind quarterback, man. I don't know. I just don't like you said man. I gotta say I do not see it. With him being the starting quarterback he listened to it is not a deep ball thrower. And that's what they're building their offense to be they're building their office to have big plays. And and and I just don't see what to admit. I don't but so go back to the path. It's crazy to me that they've gone from the upside coming into this year right coming into this offseason. Mack Jones making the playoffs in the first year. All these all these different things that are like yo Patria says you absolutely should feel positive. About Us to the dolphins have now absolutely leapfrogged your team, right? Oh, yeah. And not to compare them to my cowboys. But the Patriots responses to the moves that the other teams in the division are making right the bills, signing Von Miller the dolphins getting Tyreke Hill getting chased admins making all these moves. And your response bill, the GM is to go sign Malcom Butler. Your response is to literally do absolutely nothing. You know, you already alluded to a once man, but it literally does sound like the makings of a disappointing you know, rebuild season and one of those off seasons like the Cowboys always have where it's like, oh, the Patriots are linked to this guy. Didn't get him. Oh, but they're linked to these two guys. We didn't get them. But we resigned Malcom Butler. Do you see that? Emma

Michael Marcangelo:

like, right. It's, you know, if they had they had Alan Robinson in right for and they were talking to him for for as a free agent. i If you don't think he has anything left in the tank? Fine. Can we can we at least agree that someone like an Alan Robinson an OBJ to some extent, would would at least be enough of the decoy to make Jacoby Meyers and the rest of that offense better. But it would free up, it should free up the middle because you can't just leave Alan Robinson or an owl or actually a perennial outside threat alone, because you couldn't get slugged right. But now, that's not what they did. They lowball them. And this whole notion and there are Patriots fans out there and apologetics out there. And then there's the other ones that say we will fire fire bill the coach, then don't talk. Don't do that. Because the next the next guy up could be Joe, Joe judge or Matt Patricia or what a Bella checks moronic children. So we definitely don't want that. We just want bill the GM to maybe listen to other people out there. And if you think that, too, is going to be the starting quarterback for Miami, the only thing that you can say is it least that what we know of that of that dirtbag owner? At least he's trying to figure out if he puts enough skill players around to can he be successful? Right? He's going to try and make him better. What are we doing with Mack? Hi, Montgomery. That that's your free agent Signing Time. Good for you. Good. Again. You signed Malcom Butler. Great. Terrence Mitchell. Awesome. 84 year old Devin Mccourty I love you. I respect to you. Thank you. So are you but you were one of the best like you were the start of the good draft picks back in 2010. Matthew Slater like can't live without you. That's your answer. So the Jets got better. The dolphins got better. The bills are already better. We could live in a world and I'm not trying to sound the alarms and and again these hold it No, I'm just a entitled Patriot fan. You could live in a world where a year after spending close to a quarter of a billion dollars. You are the worst team in your division with a rookie quarterback who's on a rookie deal. And you have every other team in the league conceivably, that has that same situation that just loading up it's embarrassing.

Rob Kelly:

Yeah, that's and that's that's the situation you want to be in honestly, you look at all the all the all these teams that are successful year in you're out and the ones that have those quarterbacks on rookie deals, because once they get past that rookie deal, man, it takes up so much of your cap space. The thing with Bill that always blows my mind is was when we got into you know discussion the other day of build a coach versus build a GM that whole thing. Sometimes I feel like like a it's like, they don't agree on something but it's like the same fuckin person Dude, it doesn't make sense because, you know, like, it's, it's like the coach knows he can scheme and he can do things better than any other coach ever. So he feels like he doesn't need to do these skill position guys. And he can go out and sign to tight ends and have average wideouts and average running backs and still get the job done. But it's like bro, when when you have guys in your division, who are ballers like Devonte I guess Parker is not really one of them anymore. Alright, so like Jalen was still pretty good Tyreke Parker still pretty good Patriot killer. That is true like Tyreke hill like Stefon Diggs, like all these guys may like new playmaker Gabriel Davis in the playoffs, like all these guys can make plays. Listen, Gabriel Davis would be your number one wide receiver,

Michael Marcangelo:

you would be my number one wide receiver.

Rob Kelly:

That's a fact. To fact, it's crazy. I don't know I just I don't get it

Michael Marcangelo:

then think about this. Right. Okay. Kind of not the same situation, but kind of the same situation. So the the Los Angeles chargers, right. They have Justin Herbert on the on the rookie contract, right? And they're also in a division with Patrick mahomes. So they need to be competitive. What do they do? Based they acquire Khalil Mack. They signed JC Jackson, they shore up that defense, they resigned Mike Williams to a monster deal. So they make sure that they're going to be competitive. What does tend to do? Well, we need to be competitive in this division. Go get me Russell Wilson. So they have Russell Wilson. Now they get rid of all that all their draft picks, by the way, worth it. Kansas City Chiefs again, as long as you have Patrick mahomes and you have people that you can put in front of him for an offensive line, you have a shot. So you trade you trade. You trade Tyree kill fine. You signed Juju Smith Schuster, who needs to have a rebound year. This is this is his last chance to get a big contract. So he needs to perform. So there you're going to be fine. Oh, you saw Travis Kelsey. always told me Cole Hardman. So you're going to be you're going to be fine. The Raiders, the laughingstock of the league, the laughingstock of this show, you know, when they're sick of being the laughingstock, what do they do? They go and they get Davante Adams. Oh, they get they resign Max Crosby. Oh, they signed Chandler Jones. So they've loaded up to everyone in the AFC above me. I don't think we've been on the on the air since it happened. The Colts have Matt Ryan. The Cleveland Browns have Deshaun Watson.

Rob Kelly:

Amari Cooper got traded to the browns and

Michael Marcangelo:

NMR Yeah, and Amari Cooper. So there is a chance of what you were the seventh best team in the in the ACLs. Last season. You might not be in the top 12 this year. Yeah,

Rob Kelly:

I mean, automatically with those moves that you said right charges jumping. Without a doubt. Charges jumped the Patriots in town. I'm not saying we'll see what happens next year. But talent skill wise what you see on paper right now, the Chargers are a better football team. Right?

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, yeah. Yes. Because they have an offensive line that can protect Justin Herbert Justin Herbert can throw a million miles an hour 100 yards down the field that he has targets now the only thing they were lacking were defense and now they got it. And you know I've I've been seeing on on Twitter and you know, everywhere. Well, you know, you don't want to be like the Jaguars and sign up and sign Krishna Kirk to a $17 million contract. You're right. We did that last year with Nelson Aguilar. We've already done it. We've already done all the terrible deals. And now like I said, you put yourself in a position where you're not the best team in the league or you're not even the best team in your conference. Now you're not even the third best team you might not be the third best team in your in your damn division. And they deserve it. They if you think if you think that Dell has always been the guy and the reason for the success this year this year we'll test that theory if I'm wrong. I'm really wrong if the Patriots won 11 games this year with the with the replacements out there. Great. Ben he is the greatest coach of all time but as someone who's not in this not Patriot fan Bobby and we has always said and it's true that the AFC East is kind of the laughingstock of the easiest the easiest division in football is that true anymore?

Rob Kelly:

No, not even close the AFC East those two top tables so I'm still hesitant on the dolphins strictly because the two and what we saw from him last year but the moves that all those teams are making mad I mean even even the Jets the Jets were eight on this Tyreke Hill deal right to the end. The only reason the dolphins ended up getting them is because they threw that first round picket everyone's making moves in that division. And to me I mean I see it as they can't be the laughingstock anymore because you have the bills who are probably the favorites to come out of the AFC now right yeah, with the Chiefs with the Chiefs trading hill you know, yeah, you some of the homes but the bills haven't lost anyone and have loaded up and gotten Von Miller defense to show up in already fantastic defense. So they can't be the laughingstock anymore. You know what I mean? Cuz you look at those past years, man, the Patriots had a cakewalk every year. Yeah. And I think I just think the rest of the East saw what the Patriots have become that Cam Newton year and ever since that it's been balls to the wall, all of them. Every single one of them. They from the dolphin to dolphins traded up to get to it, didn't they? They're here. Yes. Yeah. So you have the dolphins trading up to get to it. You have been trading up to get Jaylen waddle. You have the Bill's going to get Josh Allen they got their man Stefon Diggs, like they saw the opening. They seized it. And now we're here, man. There we are. And just a

Michael Marcangelo:

little disclaimer, those two teams did those moves while you still had to lock down corners on your roster. You had JC Jackson and Stephon Gilmore. And they still went out and did that. Now, now you have a Malcom Butler and Terrence Mitchell.

Rob Kelly:

They lost both of them for a third round pick in total.

Michael Marcangelo:

Right. Right. I can I flipped by a little like a, I think I think that this is the longest of long shots. And it could easily be disproven and not true by the time of this makes the airwaves and you're listening to it on your on your way to do whatever you're doing. But Gronk not committing to Tampa Bay. And all the moves that Miami has made. And with a certain person's linked history to Miami ownership, it got me thinking what if, what if Miami trades to their first round pick because they still have the first round pick to be acquired from from San Francisco for trade lands? all the

Rob Kelly:

way round? They traded the same framework. True. Yeah, they traded 29 They kept their whatever it was 2020 they still have a first round pick yet.

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah. So you get a you get a first round pick. Maybe it first round next year and a third. You trade that to Tampa Bay for I what I would do is trade it for Kyle Trask and all you also have to give up Mike kiseki right, do that too. So you're gonna trade to a Iseki to first and a third. For Tom Brady. Kyle Trask that's it, I think Gronk signs there and now it's pretty Gronk Tyree kill Jaylen waddle Devonte Parker. Just just just to shove it up Bill's sphincter. Two more times. Is that possible? Bobby,

Rob Kelly:

I love it. I love it. I love every second of it. Not not only just because you know, Patriots fans would just have an absolute aneurysm if this happened, Jackie O'Donnell, I swear to god would roll over in her grave and die on the spot, man. Oh, yeah, but I just want to see him with that offense, man. I think that would be so fun to watch. I mean, besides making the eyes bleed of you wouldn't have wouldn't that be

Michael Marcangelo:

extremely fun to watch? You're gonna make my eyes play.

Rob Kelly:

You're not gonna make my eyes but what Brady and the dolphins jersey? I know. It's like, like Florida Vikings jersey to the Packers. You know what I mean? It is it is anti christ. Like it couldn't be a worst case scenario than seeing Tom Brady wearing the turquoise and white whatever it is. But that would be the funnest offense mate. Would that? Alright? Let's compare that right. Compare that versus the Tampa offense? Which one is better? Which one is funner? I think I would lean towards Miami man. Model Hill kiseki case admins versus Evans and Godwin and he's, that'd be so fun. Man. I would, I would say it makes sense. It makes sense.

Michael Marcangelo:

Three reasons why it wouldn't make my eyes bleed. Number one, all you have to do is pay the guy because you had the money to pay him 2020 Was gonna suck anyway, with a better if you just locked him up for three more years, you could have done that you chose not to number two. If he goes to Miami, and in this in this, you know, alternate universe and does in one season, what Dan Marino couldn't do in 15. That just furthers my argument that Dan Marino should not be in the NFL Hall of Fame. Right? Right. Right. So I am I am beholden to the take. I love it. I love it. And also a big fuck you to Bill. I still love you, Bill Belichick as a coach, I really do. But this notion that you are so good that you can just win with teams and players and choose not to build around your, your rookie quarterback, who by the way, if he stays upright this year, and gets nine wins, he's better than I thought he was. Because it's going to be an uphill battle now to get nine wins, especially when you have to get four of them against the dolphins in the bills, but you just can't beat up on the dolphins anymore.

Rob Kelly:

Now, that's a fact Ben, that's an absolute fact. And not only that, I just was I know you know, I haven't even brought it up yet. So just a just fans to me are one of the most entitled I'm not saying you guys. You are he just says I am. So patient says to me off are some of the most entitled people a fan bases in the world. Man. We've gone through this time and time again. I'm not going to get into it. We're not going to start a fight tonight. Have

Michael Marcangelo:

we done it on the air though?

Rob Kelly:

I think so. I don't think so.

Michael Marcangelo:

But seeing their

Rob Kelly:

Lord and Savior for so many years, in that dolphins jersey to me would just bring so much art. So it would bring so much. What's the word? I'm looking for? Joy, humble humbleness and joy for me. Yes, but it would just humble so many ideal set like listen, we are the Patriots. We expect winning, we expect 13 wins a year, it is a failure. If this team doesn't get us 12 wins. What are we less? This is the rest of the NFL guys. This is this is the world most of us live in. Okay, when we're happy with a 1011 win season. Okay. This is this is where the rest of the NFL lives. And I just think seeing Brady, beat them up in a dolphins Jersey would just bring them back to that level a little closer. You know what I mean? Like we when we have these arguments next year, I wouldn't expect well, you know, it's not acceptable. If we have 12 wins, well, not Brady grass twice a year, and then come back to me next year. Tell me how many wins you expect.

Michael Marcangelo:

I mean, the mere notion of that, just like it gives me a little TD ate my shorts, if you know what I mean. Like it's that is what you need to see it. And by the way. He he never had to have left. He didn't he really didn't want to. He wanted things to change. Just pay him. Just pay him and this would have never happened. Because now what you've seen is you could have called him on his bluff. I mean, Tampa has so far. Oh, you want to retire? Great. Well, if Tom wants come back and play like we'll be ready for him. How much would it cost you to get rid of them? Five first rounders. Like Ariens say what you want about him? He's not He's not letting this guy off the hook off the hook. And I would love it. Trust me i i I would absolutely the the sports with the Patriots fan and me would hate it. But the but the sports fan me would say this is what you had. And you decided that you could win without them. Now the other thing that I think the more realistic take on because we're focusing a lot of the Miami Dolphins here because my team the Newland patriots, your team, the Dallas Cowboys. And for the most part, I think even the Chicago Bears have really done nothing when the last season. So except subtract some tracks. So the rest of the league is getting better. And I think what's a more realistic scenario, though? I just want to throw this out to you, Bobby. I mean, why wouldn't you if you're, if you're a San Francisco trade Jimmy G there. You get to it's trial and error. So you have a good backup or two, we can start whatever you need to do. Jimmy G can throw the ball down the field. If he has targets and I think you'll have targets down there we just went over this or that the more realistic option is that turns into the quarterback that nobody thought he would be in the NFL. And he becomes a 4000 yard passer. And now you're really in trouble because you could have done Mack if if two can do it. I think Patriot fans would say well Mack Jones is better than two. So why wouldn't you give him the same options and build around him like they did to it? Now you're screwed you the Patriots will be playing catch up for a very long time. If this is the opening day roster Yeah, agreed agree.

Rob Kelly:

They're they're playing they're eating cereal with a fork everyone's eaten with a spoon if the opening day roster 100% Because you're right man you have an opportunity here with a rookie quarterback right so you look at all these other teams that have just been dying for quarterbacks, right the Indianapolis Colts are the best example to me where you have a team that has every other piece available right they have wide receivers they have the running backs they have the defense all they've been missing as the quarterback for five years now pretty much since block left all they've been missing they bring a Matt Ryan shirt up that spot the Patriots have the hardest part of the equation figured out to me I said the 200 when they great when they drop the coach and the quarterback guys is so in I said this to you guys when they drafted Mac like Listen Max Max the real deal man that you can make throws not many quarterbacks can make but you still you have to surround them with weapons that are better than your best weapon being Hunter Henry. Okay, listen, Hunter Henry's awesome, great tight end. Great tight end. He cannot and will not ever be the number one option on the Super Bowl team. Super Bowl team, not even a good team. You know what I mean? I'm actually contender, an actual contender. He can't be your number one option. You got it. bring someone in there and even even Brady man, even Brady back in those patriots days like, listen, we've been here we've done this, or a Patriots. You've done this before. Alright, we're Shay Caldwell was your number one wide receiver in 2013. How did that work out? Right? God rest his soul. How that workout? No, very great. So it's just it doesn't to me it doesn't matter who your quarterback is. And you're not surrounding him with the weapons that it takes to win a NFL to be a great team, the NFL to be contender for a championship. What the hell are you doing here? You know what I mean? You have you have what you need. It's there.

Michael Marcangelo:

Just to be clear. prosze Caldwell was our number one wide receiver in 2006. And it got us at 24. I gotta say 2043 lead against the Annapolis colts on their own turf, which we subsequently lost because he couldn't catch a ball. Brady went to the SEC title game and the Super Bowl with the likes of Ben Watson the second time and the Patriots uniform.

Rob Kelly:

That was the cat was that the camera Tompkins here?

Michael Marcangelo:

Oh, no, no. Ben Watson was here the year that Gronk held out. So what was that? 2019? I mean, so we made a playoff berth, and got our asses handed to us by the Titan. So like this. All of that.

Rob Kelly:

Watson was in the he was on the lead engine Team 2019.

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, he was getting he was collecting your Social Security. And just think about this man. All in all those years where you went where we went to, you know, 10, or yet 10 Straight AFC tower games. The one common denominator was that you had the greatest quarterback in the history of the sport. There. Now you don't. And what we saw last year that that equals probably three wins the regular season, and definitely one of the postseason. So, to wrap up. This, this little thing that we're doing here about the NFL offseason, I have two things that I want to say The NFL has done a great job with everything that's happening in, in, in, in sports, staying top of mind when they're not going to be on the field for another six months. So he wasn't there. That's I mean, they they dominate the sports world year round. And to all the Patriots fans out there from from one Patriot fan, who, yeah, I'm not I'm not part of the old guard, right? I wasn't I didn't, I didn't I didn't love the team in 76. Because I wasn't born yet. Didn't see the Superbowl 85 Again, because I still was not born. But I do remember. I do you remember what it was like, when you were building something, and 9596. And then what it looked like when you were losing all of that, and 9798 and 99. And I remember what it was like to be five and 11 and 2000. But there was always something next that you were looking at, you're building something. Bill Belichick needs to have the draft of his NFL career 50 or 48 years into his NFL career? Because if he doesn't, the scene isn't building anything. And you're now going to be in this purgatory, where you are in a nine and 889. Team. And you're just not good enough.

Rob Kelly:

Yeah, yeah. I think that sums it up pretty well, man. And so that's what I go off on like that. Entitled real quick, right? That's why the Listen, that's why most Patriots fans don't have that mindset. And I would implore all of them to please remember those days because, because it's, it's yes, it may have been so long ago, okay. But five and 11 and six and 10 seasons are more the norm in the NFL, than an 11 and five, and, and 12 and four, I guess those won't be the norm anymore. 11 and 612 and five seasons, okay, it's more than norm to be mediocre than it is to be great. So I just implore you all to like, just please appreciate what you have. Please appreciate mr. Bilbo check. And yes, you may go 10 and eight this year, but you still are going to go 10 and eight or nine and eight with a rookie quarterback that a lot of teams would love to have. Alright, what you need to do is import his bag, your coach slash GM to get him some damn weapons because if you don't, you're going to be stuck here for a while. I promise you that I've been I've been in this mediocre hell for my entire life. Okay. These are all the signs of it continuing. And I'm seeing them all from the Patriots. So we'll see what happens moving forward. But if things don't change when it comes to how They operate, how they do business in the offseason.

Michael Marcangelo:

Right. I don't see things. Right. I mean, I don't think that there's anything left that we need to say about the Patriots and the wild NFL season and just the other mediocrity that they are living in. But before we get over to the NBA and the and the Celtics, speaking of mediocrity, golf season is upon us. And I would be lucky to be a mediocre golf player. But I, I do think that if you want to be you should try out skill list. So what is skill list skill This is affordable on demand golf lessons anywhere, anytime. You get to stay connected through with your coaches through chat and zoom. And these aren't just your average driving range range coaches. These are coaches that have worked with Tiger Woods, first Kappa, and Steph Curry of the Golden State Warriors. All you need to do is type in code MTP at checkout for 20% off of your first lesson. It's skill list available in the Google Play app store. And on the I think they call it what the iOS store or online@skilless.com skill list. Our sponsor stop sucking a golf. I liked that.

Rob Kelly:

It was good. They helped me they helped me with my drive. I didn't even tell you man to help me with my drive. I can drive the ball though. So okay, hit that. Is that true? No. Still can't drive the ball still can't drive the ball. That was a lie. I have a good iron ganda suck. You bet.

Michael Marcangelo:

That's all you play with you.

Rob Kelly:

You have to teach.

Michael Marcangelo:

I love to teach Alright, getting into the NBA and more importantly the Boston Celtics the Celtics right now. It is we are recording this on Wednesday, March 23. The Celtics are are up by 27 points over the Utah Jazz 101 74 Another the defiant when which I will I'll later say it doesn't matter. But we'll get to

Rob Kelly:

that he's only gonna say it doesn't matter just to spite us with

Michael Marcangelo:

known and and others. There's a lot there's more to that. This is very passive aggressive mind. But we'll we'll get to that. But with se right now are basically they're they're in it for the three seed and the two seed is up for grabs, too. I think since the last time that we spoke, they've just continued this run Bobby. So is Is this the the actual 22? The 2022 Boston Celtics? Are we living in it like or is this all just other teams are trying to figure out their seating? Maybe they're not playing as tough against the Celtics? And we won't actually know until the playoffs?

Rob Kelly:

Listen, you're asking the right person for that. Because my heart my heart definitely tells me that this is the team that listen, when you're going up against the best competition that not just your conference has to offer. But both conferences have to offer. And you're not just beating these teams, man. We are absolutely shutting them down. I mean, you look at tonight, right? So we're playing the jazz right now. I don't even know what the jazz rank right? I think they're like, third or fourth in the West. And we are beating we're holding up to 70 points at Midway through the fourth or beginning of the fourth. And then you have the other night. What's the nuggets, Nikola Joker, perennial MVP candidate, shut him down and had the starters out of the game for the nuggets. By the beginning of the fourth quarter. We were beating him so bad. It's just we're not only beating these teams. We're beating them convincingly. Now, I already know what you're gonna say what about the other night where we blew that lead? Listen, I'm not worried about that as much. Specifically if we blew lead right to the nuggets, or to the jazz, like let's say tonight, right? The Jazz come back and ends up being like a three point game. I would be more worried about that than I would be doing it against Louisville was it against

Michael Marcangelo:

Oklahoma City Thunder.

Rob Kelly:

Western Conference, right but it's much easier. I know this shouldn't happen. I know I get it. But it's much easier for you to let your guard down when you have to your best players out when you're playing back to back against one of the worst teams in the NBA. It's just the recipe for letting your guard down is there you don't have to trap game signals. Everything is there. But they ended up winning the game anyways. And if you're doing this against the best of the NBA, you can't keep your your compete level up. Fine. We can talk about issues. But at that point man is like alright, we got this game this team socks. Let's wrap it up. Once they realize it wasn't wrapped up. They're like oh shit, they still ended up winning by 10. So all right, even even the one red flag though so like talking about that right? That's the one red flag of all this run. The one red flag is a game we won by 11. I'm okay with that. Okay, I'm okay.

Michael Marcangelo:

I'm okay. Yes, I understand that. That is that that's that's the end result. But that's not the context. Right? So what you're saying is my contact? Yeah, well, it's for it's fraudulent. So I tried the whole trap game scenario, was it I could have lived, I would have been able to live with that if they if, if they played them close the entire time, or if they were trailing. When you're up 28 points, with 14 minutes left in the game, to a team, that is night and 35 on their home court, who was also playing the second night, have a bit of a back to back. You don't blow that leap. And if you do, and you still win, great, because that's the most important part. But you deserve the criticism. Because you, you can't do that you, you can't, it doesn't make sense to me, we're celebrating I'm doing it, which is why I'm trying to hold you to the same model of consistency that I am holding myself to Bobby, if we're going to celebrate the utter dominance of them against Golden State, or against Denver. And if those when mattered more, because they they won by a lot, then not winning by a lot against a terrible team, when you were almost up 30 is a red flag. Now, I know they they took their foot off the gas, and they were lucky to have been playing against a team that was not capable of capitalizing or what happens when they're up 18 on Chicago on the first round. And they decide we got this in the bag, and then a run started, they can't stop. That is that that is a flaw that if it had never happened before in the history of the Boston Celtics, as they are currently built, I'd be fine. But I'm just here on March 23, or March 24, whatever you choose to listen to this, to remind you that the Boston Celtics lead every single game in the fourth quarter that they lost to the Miami Heat in the Eastern Conference Finals two years ago. So they've done it, they've done this. So don't do that. Again, as I'm saying, that is my only point. So okay, I hear you. I should have prefaced it by saying, I don't want to be I'm sure I'm trying really hard not to be negative. And then I get jumped on about oh, what's your narrative, the wind, and oh, they still won, but they beat Big. They beat better teams by a lot. Well, if you just told me that a wins a win. So who the fuck cares if they win by 100? Doesn't matter if they win by 100? Or if they win by one Vin Diesel? A win is a win, right?

Rob Kelly:

Listen, you know better than to come at a positive time. When it comes to the south except me and right. We're gonna we're gonna jump down your throat and tell you why everything is fine and dandy. Okay. But I completely hear what you're saying. I do get it. I do get it man. Because listen to precedent. Hearing you explain it like that. It makes it a lot different because you're right. The President is already there. Okay, that we've seen that from them before. I think the saving grace is that they ended up winning the game like you said in the discord the other day last year they lose that game. No doubt about it. We saw we actually saw them lose that game last year against the pelicans, you remember that? They were up 27 In the fourth, they ended up losing. So we've seen them lose that game before. The same grace to me as they didn't they did find a way to hold on to that lead, and even still win convincingly. It wasn't something where it was still in question and that last two minutes of the game. The thing that jumps out to me is the Celtics aren't the only top team that used to conference with these huge red flags going off this year. Right? So we already have the Sixers this harden MB dynamic. Not really sure about it. It looks amazing at some nights, but like James Harden does he looks awful. On some nights would they lose to the loss of the NASS by what like 64 Last week or something like that? And then you have the bowl. Do you know what the bulls record this year is against teams ranked in the top three nation conference? How many wins Do you like to have how many all year? Oh yeah three zero there. Oh in 16 against teams ranked in the top three in the Eastern Conference right the bucks I mean the box to be honest, they're gonna be a tough out regardless, I honestly can't think of much of a red flag with them except maybe health but even then, you got you got it. So

Michael Marcangelo:

don't they have a terrible they have a terrible head coach.

Rob Kelly:

Who's the head coach? Yeah, didn't they just Oh buton holder right? Isn't that buttonholes Estelle yeah to do a boon but Yeah, I mean, even still, you still got this man. And that's that's the team that scares me. The rest of the Eastern Conference I think is so flawed. Especially I know, I know you got the nets maybe. But, man, Ben Simmons doesn't play. I just don't see it from them this year was it Katie's amazing. He's awesome. But I don't know if he can do it by himself. And, Kyrie, is Kyrie I. I haven't seen anything from Kyrie in New Jersey or even since Boston days that in the playoffs makes me think he's gonna show up and be that Kyrie that he was in Cleveland in the playoffs? So I haven't been

Michael Marcangelo:

didn't he'd? Didn't he have a great game last year and stomp on lucky in our home court after he after he had a great game? I mean, it's not that long ago, dude. Yeah. So now you have Kyrie you have? Again, we talked about this last time the guy that would be in the the Ball Hall of Fame, if only that was the name of it, but because there's basket he won't be there. Ben Simmons, if he's gonna play great. I'm not worried about him, Kyrie now that the mandate in New York seems to be lifted. And he will be playing to be able to play home games. I think that yeah, I still think that Brooklands beatable, I'm not, I'm not entirely worried about them. But if what you're telling me is that they just, they've just been waiting. And now it starts really in the playoffs. Now, all of a sudden, Andre Drummond, he's gonna go out he's gonna He's going to be the guy that we that we used to want here in Boston. And that Kyrie is gonna He's gonna bawl out. We all we all know it, Katie is going to do they're going to be a formidable team. Unfortunately. I still think they could be bounced in the first round if they play Miami. I think Miami matched up really well against them. And I also I think, I think Steve Nash is a is a good coach. But I think I think Spoelstra has proven that he is the best coach in the Eastern Conference, and maybe even you know, Bill Popovich is still here. So he's, he's up there with poppin within the league. Yeah, but no, he's

Rob Kelly:

the one seed right now. Is that right?

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, the other 47 and 25. Wow. Wow.

Rob Kelly:

Okay. Yeah, Miami does scare me. So those are those are two the heat in the bucks are the two teams of me that scared me because as good as Robert Williams has been as good as Greg Williams has been as good as he was on yo kitch the other night, which he was awesome on Yokosuka night. That's, that's a piece that I don't think a lot of people are talking about is Greg Williams. How awesome. He's been this year, which is crazy, because how bad he was last year. But um, it's it's crazy. But Jonas and the heat are the two teams that do scare me. And I do think a lot of that has to do with what you were talking about earlier, man is that series in the bubble where we had to heat in that series, man, we really did. We were the better team every single game. But I don't know if it was coaching. I don't know if it was how soft we were. I'm not sure what the recipe was. But they had our number in the fourth quarter. And it was like a completely different basketball, there's three quarters, that was one game. And in the fourth quarter was a completely different camera. They just dominated us every single game every time every time it was unbelievable. So that they do scare me. But I don't know. I think me, me, to me has done such a good job with getting rid of all those red flags that we saw for so many years. So like, like we talked about, we already had this entire conversation last time. It's just, it's just so solidified to me that even since then, right? We've seen those red flags pop back up, like you said in that OKC game. They didn't say we've seen them dominate the better teams in the NBA to the point where our defense, I think we let up against the nuggets in the second quarter. 12 points. It's just we're doing defensively things that that you haven't seen a Celtics team or even an NBA team do in a very long time. So that's why I just do have a lot of promise for this playoffs. But I don't worry like no matter how much promise and positivity I have in my brain, I still hear your little fucking chirping mine in the back of my brain like well, you know, they did lose every fourth quarter lead against the heat. It's there and and it's definitely prevalent is definitely warranted. But

Michael Marcangelo:

right well, it would be different if I was saying like, yeah, I remember when in the garden. They were winning. Nope. This happened two years ago, two years ago with most of the same team there. They did it. Now again. Okay, see that that if that you already talked about the Pelican game, but that already happened that would have happened again last year. They and they corrected it? That's fine. I think what's really happening and you heard it here first. I'm starting to believe in them in my heart. But I've been so jaded based on what I've seen with my eyes lazy and all that. I just don't know if I can trust them yet. And it sucks for the for the for the content right now because everything I'm saying is true now until it isn't like I can tell you right now that salty skate the Celtics have not done anything in the playoffs this year. That's true. But they also haven't been there yet. Now, if they if they, if they sweep Chicago, are they are they beat him in five? Okay. All right. Great. And that's what they play. Right. I mean, I think that the Celtics, there's a really good possibility that they could finish third, they finished third, give me Cleveland, you mean leaving all day, that they better sweep them? If you get the nets. If you play the nets, you this is now your, your? Your year to win. There is no big three in Brooklyn anymore. So if if, what? If everything that what you've been telling me over the last I could say 10 years we'll just focus in the last two and a half months is true. Then this version of Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Marcus smart al Horford Robert Williams, they should be good enough and better to be Kevin Durant. Kyrie Irving and the rest of them. Because that's all that they are. They're just the rest of them. You have two stars. They have a perennial Hall of Famer. And I think probably one of the best point guards that we've seen in our generation. But if you're if you're more well rounded, and everything that we've been seeing recently is true. Doesn't this team? Don't? Don't we beat them? Like, shouldn't we? And if we don't, I know you're gonna say well, you know, you lose the next lose. And that's, I don't understand why what why we should be okay with losing to two Yanis I forgot that only one great person could be two really good people. Like if we value this team, as much as you say that you do. You should look at our roster compared to Milwaukee's roster and say, you have the horses to beat the book. Why do you want to score 60? Just don't let anyone else. Just don't let the rest of them score. 60 you should win that game.

Rob Kelly:

Yeah, I would disagree with that. I I like where your head's at. They're just so good. So why he took that playoffs over. I mean, he did so he was so good last year. But listen, if it comes down to it in the playoffs, and we ended up playing Milwaukee, you know, I'm gonna be the one like, listen, we will fuck up. It will take them down. But he's something that

Michael Marcangelo:

ganas went to the championship and won the championship because Kevin Durant got hurt. And Chris Paul got hurt.

Rob Kelly:

It was and because his foot was on the line. Because Katie hit that three memory hit that three, and then he actively beat. So looking at the playoff matchup. So So I know you brought that up at the beginning. We wanted to go into these matchups here. You're right, man, you look at where we're batching up right now. The Cavs are the bullseye for me. I said it last time. That's that's the team that Celtics fans you want to play in that first round because they are the young up and coming. We're happy to be here team. They're good. Don't get me wrong, but the Celtics should have no problem with them. Right the rest of the teams that we could possibly face. Kinda scare me a little bit with how they're made. I'm not scared me, but I think that it would be a tougher matchup where we have the nets like you said, KD Kyrie I agree, I think we should beat them based off of what their team looks like just with the rest of the pieces around them. But I mean, a first round matchup against fucking Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving is not something I want in any universe whatsoever. And then the other ones the Raptors to make lets you guys know how I feel about the Raptors. I love me some Toronto rapper bat raptor basketball, okay. Oh, yeah. This team is not the same rafter team as it was in years past. It's not even close. But they still play that same style of basketball that gave the Celtics fits in the bubble two years ago. So I think, well, actually, you know what, I'm gonna rewind that a little bit further actually. Because the one thing we did dominate and this Harry's thinking back to it was Pascal siakam. Anytime siakam tried to take that game over, we dominated him, and I totally got no. So

Michael Marcangelo:

that's also the series that made the Miami series so much more hurtful, right? It's because you were down pretty much in every game in the third quarter against the raptors and you've fought back to win and great. Yeah, so it's not the same players. But they say that they play the same brand of basketball. That's literally like telling me well, you know, The Celtics don't have Larry Bird anymore, but they play the same scheme so they're gonna be tough

Rob Kelly:

nuts. That's it's the same coach. It's the same goulash. Kawhi Leonard,

Michael Marcangelo:

you lost. But I mean, it's just it's just not the same. It's like It's like the Warriors without clay. They play the same brand. Why have they not been great? Since he's been back? Or until he got back?

Rob Kelly:

Well, when we played him didn't have quiet. That was just the louder year remember? Cool. I was already gone. And the bubble climbs gone wasn't yet. Cool. I left the year before that true. Yeah, yeah. Cool. I left here before I think you're right. Yeah. I mean, you're at the Clippers because he went to the clippers that year and all that was awesome. Boy doc, right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You went to the clippers? 2019. Yes. Right. And that was the same year as the bubble and all that. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, so but still there have Lowry anymore. That was the main piece of that team. Anyway, so

Michael Marcangelo:

And where is where is Lori? And he's in Miami.

Rob Kelly:

That's it. I mean, that Miami team man, they're they're scared scared yet. Me. They have nitro they look really bad. Which I feel like every team does. I mean, except for the cells like lately,

Michael Marcangelo:

but besides Yes. Okay. Say they still want by 11 they were up by 28.

Rob Kelly:

With right 14 minutes, so they didn't look bad. They look bad for like six minutes.

Michael Marcangelo:

Do you think that you actually you are I'm so glad I get to say this to you. Okay, you have told me before that anyone that says that a basketball game is won or lost in the third quarter is wrong. It's won in the fourth quarter. They didn't resolve didn't do anything to win that game. They just they I would just say that OKC didn't do anything to win either. That's it. Like they they were had they played with one against another team. I'll just say this. If that had happened against Minnesota, Minnesota beat you. They just played a team that was 20 and 51. Like that's what happened. So they got lucky. But that that that is a bad game. It's a bad one. And yes, Rayshawn and for all those listeners out there, there is a thing called Bad wins. The Patriots had nine of them last year. That's what happens. Okay. Sorry about me.

Rob Kelly:

Okay, I was I completely hear what you're saying. And and the so I just feel like I've been so stuck in cowboys offseason that it's like kind of clouding my Celtic positivity moment because every negative thing you're saying I'm like, listen, I get it, man. It all those signs. Are there. It is the same team that had deep breakdowns it is this it is that two differences. a me a DOCA is obviously doing something with the with the mindset of this team that they're they're harder, stronger, tougher team than they were two years ago. That's very evident. And the defense is the best. I send us the radio day when we were playing the nuggets. Is this an overreaction? This is the best defensive group we have ever seen as a Celtic since since we've been fans, you know what I mean? Have you ever seen a Celtics team dominate defensively? This consistently for this long of a span, bro, this isn't just like 10 games, you know what I mean? We are by far the best defensive team in the league since the all star break and it is not even close. It's I think we're at we're giving up I think it's like 90 points a game. And the next closest is like 98 or something around there. So it's like it's not even that, you know, we're we're closely the best defensive team in the league. We are dominantly by far the best defensive team in the league. And to me like ray, ray always says you always lose to defense travels, defense 100% does travel and against the best players in the NBA. The one things that you need to have a solid defense you need to be able to shut down these best scores, Navy errs, you're not going to have a chance. Listen, if you're going up against the nuggets and joking is dropping 55 on you. But you also are letting Aaron Gordon score 20 You don't have a goddamn chance in that game. Okay. But if your defense is shutting down, was shutting down, Yogesh the other night. That's not gonna happen every time. Let him get his 30 Like you said, Let him do his thing. But you got to stop everyone else. And that's what they've been doing. So

Craig D'Alessandro:

I I forget what Coach it was. But I remember somebody saying recently that if at this point, the way the Celtics are going, we score 100 on them. We look at that as a victory even if we lose this game. So that mean that teams just can't score on this team the way they're going right now. I mean, it just like I'm looking at the plus minuses right now for this jazz versus Celtics game, and Celtics are gonna win this game. They just want it by 28 points. And every single jazz is at least minus 10. It is just they are just playing bad basketball Celtics apart of just playing bad basketball against.

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, I mean, I would just push back just a little bit. I just because I feel like I have to the best defensive team that I've seen since I've been a fan is still the Oh 708 Celtics. Sure.

Rob Kelly:

Okay, but this team actually compares to them, defensively.

Michael Marcangelo:

Sure. For now, yeah, you know, they do. I mean, that team was 66 and 16. Sure. Yeah. It compares.

Rob Kelly:

A team was so fucking good.

Michael Marcangelo:

But ah, yeah, I'm

Rob Kelly:

not. I'm not saying that they're as good as that team. Alright,

Michael Marcangelo:

they're not. You're but you're also not not saying that. Yeah, I'm not saying

Rob Kelly:

that literally took the words right out of my mouth, bro. Because like, they, they just have shown us. Like I keep saying this isn't a small sample size, right? If we were sitting here, six games into this run, and we're like, oh, yeah, best effective. Brother. This is a two and a half months of basketball. You know what I mean? And a basketball isn't every week. Basketball isn't every five days. This is almost every single night. This team is putting out defensive efforts to where like Craig just said, If teams score above 100. They're seeing that as the success in today's NBA, that is insanity. That teams are seeing it as a success if they hit 100. If the Celtics don't hit 100 in the game, I'm like, bro, what is wrong with them tonight? What's what's going on? If teams are hitting 100 against the Celtics, they're like, Okay, let's go. Like it's just a different mindset from this team.

Michael Marcangelo:

You want the one I have the one stat that I'll point out, that tells me that this team is different is this others record last year when they had one day's rest was 23 and 24. So they had a losing record, when they only had one day off. This year. It's 29 and 16. So they're ready to play. They are ready to play, they're actually worse if you give them more rest. So the Celtics are six and five with two days one and one with three Oh, and one with with four. And on on the second night, or sorry, on the back end, have a back to back, three and five. So the more this team plays, the better they are, which tells you and if you are a Celtics optimist, which I clearly I think I am at heart, I just can't allow myself to be all the time with teams, this team is different. So if there's not, there isn't one team in the east that actually scares me, I'm going to be called out by all the, you know, by the real knowledgeable basketball fans. If what we're seeing is true. And we all believe that it is your team matches up it's a 5050 shot against any team in the league. Now if you get the Warriors when they're the apps of their at their absolute best. We have historically given them fits even when even when our horseshoes was the coach. So I think it's a 5050 shot and I I'll still I'll still stand by my take now. It doesn't matter if if the season ends before June. I'll just tell you right now that it doesn't look like the seasons gonna end for June.

Rob Kelly:

And, and that's such an awesome thing to say. It's great to hear that because of where the season started because of how low our hopes were at listen. Most members of this podcast Alright, had sworn off the Celtics. I was one of them. 100% beginning of the season, man, I I stopped I literally stopped watching gay I forced myself to stop watching Celtics basketball because of how frustrating it was getting it was every night it was the same thing it was last year all over again. We're 20 games in still same thing. You know, I pushed the entire first one. Oh, it's new. It's new. Once you got the game 20 It was like alright, it's the same bullshit all over again. And then it just seemed like a flip switched. And it's been 3040 games of the best events of basketball I've seen in a long time. A Tatum and brown, more Tatum Bronfman cutter, I'll Tatum showing that he actually is the star we thought he was even though we've been saying that for four years. It's great to see. I don't have anything else to say about it because it's

Michael Marcangelo:

just like a balance, man. I think this was this was a really good balance. I was I was so and still am so angry. We just saw you about what our teams have not done in the NFL that we get. We get to close it out with little positivity on the Boston Celtics. So Until next time for the real DK Bob Kelly Hi D'Alessandro this is Mike Mark angel saying thank you so much for listening to missing the point