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Jan. 22, 2021

Get That Outta Here! NBA Edition

Get That Outta Here! NBA Edition

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On this episode of Missing the Point. It’s time once again to GET THAT OUTTA HERE, NBA EDITION! 
 
Our teams of hooligans try to rectify the sins of the NBA’s past by banishing NBA franchises. Championships, and Trades so bad that they don’t even deserve to be mentioned in the history books.

It’s time to hop back in the MTP Delorean and fix the travesties that have befallen the National Basketball Association.

Tweet your questions to @MTPshow with hashtag #askMTP, email us at Craig@MTPshow.com, or leave us a voicemail on our website to be featured on the show!

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Transcript
Craig D'Alessandro:

On this episode of missing the point, it's time once again to get that out of here, NBA edition as our teams of hooligans try to rectify the sins of the NBA is passed by bashing NBA franchises, championships and trades so bad. They don't even deserve to be mentioned in the history books. It's time to hop back into the MTP DeLorean and fix the travesties that have befallen the National Basketball Association. But first, some housekeeping. missing the point is a one hour podcast recapping the biggest stories in the world of sports what they're doing to flavor. The show notes and transcript from today's episode can be found in the description box below, as well as on our website. www dot MTP show.com. If you're new to the show, consider subscribing. It's the easiest way to see we publish new episodes. We are on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google and wherever you get your podcasts. If you're listening on Apple podcasts, make sure to rate the show and leave a review for a chance to win a free missing the point t shirt. Be sure to follow us on all of our social medias. All of our links will be in the show notes and check out our brand new website WWW dot MTV show.com that's MTP show.com. And now this is basically the point Episode 35. But it's all relative.

Dave Clarke:

Hello and welcome to missing the point the only podcast where you not only get amazing sports content, but also a free back massage from our producer upon request. I am DK sizzle Dave Clark and the name of the game is get that out of here. In the local MTP lexicon, it's often referred to as the banding show. And that's because we are split into two teams. And those two teams are going to try to convince me your handsome and charismatic host what particular thing you should get banned, or we should ban from history in a particular category. Tonight, the sport is basketball. More specifically a banding show of things related to the Turkish Airlines Euroleague. Wait, sorry, I wrote that down wrong. This one's about the NBA. The three categories that we need to get something out of here for tonight are as follows one franchise to banned permanently going forward and in history. One final series to delete from the annals of NBA history. And finally, a successful trade between two or more teams that you would like to see erased from this particular timeline in a particular one of the many universes we happen to exist in. Before we start the game. Let me introduce your contestants. I have taken the liberty of naming the teams for today and picking the team captains which doesn't actually mean anything. The members of each team are always the same as we like to keep our competition lineal here at missing the point. First, we have team Bilbo Baggins and Team Captain rayshawn. Buchanan reached out to me before the show that if he had to listen to one more extended witticism during his introduction, he would and I quote, just slapped me silly like a bag of cheap wine. So I'm going to cut right to the chase rayshawn if you had to keep just one of the major fast food chains Wendy's Burger King McDonald's or Taco Bell? Which one would you choose and why?

Rayshawn Buchanan:

You gotta go with Wendy's that 444 hates Every Time

Dave Clarke:

Square burger man a man after my own heart. Good answer it. There's a lot of nods around the room. A lot of nods around the room. Nice family here on this point. That's right. That might be the thing we've all agreed on the most in the history of

Joe Malkin:

this podcast. Pretty much

Dave Clarke:

all on site to start things out. All right, love it. Next as the star fluffer of team Bilbo Baggins we have Joe Malkin, Joe, I was interested in the entomology of your name, so I looked it up. Do you want to hear it? Absolutely. English from a medieval female personal name a diminutive of Mali, a pet form of Mary, the Hippocratic suffix Jewish from Bella Ruth's metronomic from the Yiddish female personal name melki of the Slavic metronomic sub. Well, anyway, as a Jewish Queen named Mary, I asked you this. If you had one board game to play for the rest of your life when stranded on a desert island what board game would that be?

Joe Malkin:

What would have happened if I said no to I know the epidemiology of my name,

Dave Clarke:

I would have read it out any wrong word.

Joe Malkin:

Otherwise, just because why not? Okay, so I'm actually not sure which background My name actually comes from. So I really can't speak to any of that.

Dave Clarke:

Okay, but if you had to pick one board game that you went to a desert island with for the rest of your life, which

Joe Malkin:

board game would it be? Oh, parcheesi without a doubt

Dave Clarke:

parcheesi interesting. Not as many in agreement then. Then we have with the Wendy's. They know what it is. But um, I'm sure it's interesting. I've never played it. I've never played it, but I might

Rayshawn Buchanan:

just have monopoly on it be like, yeah, let's get it.

Joe Malkin:

There's too many pieces on a deserted island. They'll all blow away.

Dave Clarke:

Yeah, that's true. That's true. That's why monopoly is a bad choice. Now, that was team Bilbo Baggins over to the next team, a team I fittingly named dildo Swaggins. team captain of dildos Swaggins is the real BK Bob Kelly. Bobby was also anticipating a fun introduction it seems and wrote me a note to read out before we started, it says in big red letters, Please read before we go live before it's underlined a couple times, but I wanted it to sound organic. So this will be my first time reading it. It says, Dave, I'm okay with the fun jokes on the show, but whatever you don't say out loud that thing I told you about having a third nipple. Oh, shit. Sorry, Bobby. My bad dude. Well, it's on tape. Now. Nothing I can do. should have read that prior. Well, Bobby, if you had one, if you had to pick one of the following two superpowers, what would it be flight or invisibility?

Rob Kelly:

I think we all know the answer to that one.

Dave Clarke:

Well, we have to wait for you to say it's over the answer to that.

Rob Kelly:

It's in visibility.

Dave Clarke:

Why is it in visibility?

Rob Kelly:

For not creepy reasons in any way? And the least creepy

Unknown:

thinking that so you said it just say

Michael Marcangelo:

that's my teammate,

Dave Clarke:

like bank robbing. You could rob banks really easily.

Rob Kelly:

we all we all know that I say the things that we're all thinking. So yeah, it comes down to Yeah, no, no. Visibility, no matter what. I'm already flying high. Listen, I already fly high in life. I don't need to fly high because I do it all day already. All right,

Dave Clarke:

I think I think that's a great time to move on. Finally. We know him as Mike. We know him as we know him here. I'm missing the point is Mike but the state of Massachusetts knows him as the Boylston Street flasher. I assume because he's so fast. Ladies and gentlemen, the Duke of spook the doc of shock Mr. Mike Mark Angelo Mike. Fuck marry kill. Barack Obama, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton.

Michael Marcangelo:

Kill Bill. Buck W and Mary Brock.

Dave Clarke:

Oh, wow. We're gonna have to dig into this. Why did you kill bill? I feel like he'd be the best in bed. I will I marry Barack to he just he seems like a good husband. Yeah, I'm out. I'm

Michael Marcangelo:

out on I'm out on the clinton dude. Can't be there. But Baraka that's another, you know, that's good life. All hypothetical

Joe Malkin:

death is not a sponsor of MTP.

Dave Clarke:

All right, well, we did it. We got through the introduction somehow, but I don't want to leave out everybody's favorite niche only fans model, the man who puts the pro and prophylactic I mean the producer, the man behind the curtain, Mr. Craig D'Alessandro. Craig in your brief on my participation today. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the complicated geopolitical stance on renewable energy. Please explain it no less than 1000 words. What the United Oh shit, this is the wrong card. Sorry, Craig if you could only have one cereal for the rest of your life what would it be Captain Crunch

Craig D'Alessandro:

oops all berries what kind of a foolish question is that?

Dave Clarke:

Wow, I'm really glad you had that ready to go that's the wrong answer. We were obviously look we're obviously looking for Count chocula put like moving on. All right, let's start the show. I don't know if you remember from back at the start but we have a banach show to do. I have with me here. A genuine Susan B. Anthony silver dollar. I'm gonna say the team Bilbo Baggins is heads and team dildo. Swaggins is tails. And whoever wins Can I guess choose if they want to go first? There might be some strategy there. So let's do it like that. Ready? flipping its heads team Bilbo Baggins goes for Well, do you guys want to go first? Or do you want to defer? Yeah, right.

Joe Malkin:

Let's go first.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yep, I'm here for it. Let's do it.

Dave Clarke:

Alright, so obviously the very first category, as we already discussed, is a franchise to banned permanently from history and going forward in the NBA. Gentlemen, what's your franchise?

Joe Malkin:

Well, from the basketball Super League in Turkey, we're going to ban fruity extra bursts for just because they're named after bubblegum. But in the NBA, the team that we are going to ban it's not so much a banning is it re it's more of a if it's not, then you've already lost. It's all it's more of an unreal locating but we're gonna ban the Oklahoma City Thunder. And here's why. The Seattle SuperSonics began play in 1967 68 season and were beloved by the City of Seattle. The biggest reason they moved was because the state of Washington failed to provide $220 million of taxpayer money to update Key Arena. The group that bought the team from the previous ownership group had a condition in their sale to make a and this is in quotes. good faith effort to secure a suitable Arena in the Seattle area. But the new ownership group professional basketball club LLC, failed to do and then failed to persuade local governments to provide $500 million for a new arena. So they just up and move the franchise out of the city despite having to pay $45 million to the city of Seattle to pay off the team's existing lease a Key Arena 20.5% of the money the original ownership group was asking for from the state of Washington, so you're gonna have to pay this money anyway. Let's find more money to keep this team in Seattle. The team couldn't find an arena in Seattle, but now they play in an arena named Chesapeake Energy arena. And while the company is headquartered in OKC, they are now no they are nowhere near Chesapeake Bay and the company recently announced that its bankrupt in 2020 and They're delisting the stock. So clearly this franchise whether they're in Seattle or Oklahoma City can't find a place to play. The thunder have won just one conference title since moving from Seattle and even with players like Kevin Durant, even though he was drafted by Seattle, Russell Westbrook and James Harden, the Seattle SuperSonics actually had a history and ever since this franchise moved to OKC. While they've been good for some years, they haven't been able to get over that hump of winning a championship. And to me, just out of principle, we need to get rid of the terrible uniforms and Okay, see, and bring back some of the most classic uniforms. And one of the most well loved franchises in the NBA.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Just think think about the players that you know came to the organization to arise you know, TJ already talked about Devin and Westbrook but, you know, you think about Ray Allen was through there, Rashard Lewis, you know, Gary Payton, Sean Raymond camp, you know, Detlef shrimp, you know, that's how Freddy brown won the championship back in 1979. A blue when they won, what was form of Celtics great, Dennis Johnson. Gus Williams came through there, right? You know, there's so many players in that city gave the NBA and a lot of us a lot of great basketball, right? So they made a conference finals numerous times, they won a championship, you know, that's the team that should come back. And once again, like Joe said, you know, the OKC franchise? Yeah, I mean, the fans in the self are great, but the team really hasn't done much since being in existence from 2008 to now. So, to me, that was really the easy choice for us to make and letting them go and bring it back to Seattle. SuperSonics.

Joe Malkin:

So basically, what we're saying is Oklahoma City Thunder, get rid of the ass.

Dave Clarke:

Interesting, interesting. Now, this is a good time to remind the listeners that I as the person you're trying to convince in order to win the game should not be bringing my personal biases into this insane that's not always easy to do. And I have a strong personal bias against the existence of the Oklahoma City Thunder because I love the Seattle SuperSonics and mainly because of their uniforms. And also all those players that Ray mentioned, but I did have unis and I do think that the city Seattle does deserve a basketball team strong start from Team Bilbo Baggins. Gentlemen, I'm going to give you a minute to talk about their at Seattle SuperSonics. Pick before you say yours.

Michael Marcangelo:

Well, the okay. Yeah, it was the thunder. I think, you know, it's hard for NBA fans like

Unknown:

we got off to a great start. Good luck in the rest of the fucking show. I was

Rob Kelly:

really hoping we could just flow past that, you know? Oh, shit. Yeah,

Dave Clarke:

I'm sorry. You're right. You're right. Mike. I misspoke. Sorry. They the thunder again, my biases can't be put in here.

Michael Marcangelo:

all I'll say is how often do you see like a new franchise either relocate or start up and they just have lots of losing seasons for a long time. And for the thunder? It was one right. I mean, they started out 2359. And then they won 50 or more games out of five of the next six seasons. So they've been a pretty successful franchise. They brought us harden Durant, Westbrook, and you know without the OKC, one of the thunder direct doesn't go to the warriors. Right. And he doesn't have this for his first championship. So for me, I think it's a tough one. I think it's controversial, but I can't understand wiping them off the face of the earth.

Unknown:

Yet no. So

Rob Kelly:

I just see. This isn't you're not banning, you're banning the moving of a team. You're not actually banning a team. If you put them back in the Seattle that team is still technically Bobby's trying to get right technicality guys, I'm just saying. I'm just saying like, if you think about it, you're saying we're banning a team. It's still you're just putting them back. And so Gretchen I love Seattle basketball. So I'm with you. I think Seattle should have a team. So like, I'm with it. But you didn't really bad a team. I'm just saying, you know, I'm just saying it's a bold strategy. That's all I'm gonna say. We'll see if it pays off cotton. We'll see if

Dave Clarke:

good rebuttal. Good rebuttal by Mike and moving on to your guys's pick for a friend franchise to ban talk me into it. And I'll try and keep my personal feelings about Mike out of it.

Michael Marcangelo:

So we're gonna ban the New York Knicks. I mean, just flat out they are a they've been around for 75 years. They're 28 2800 wins and 2900 losses. They have a career 44 win loss percentage, 42 playoff appearances and 75 games. But I think for me, the most damning thing is you have one of the if not the greatest center in the history of the NBA, and you cannot put a serviceable team around him to win a championship. You can't excuse that inability also, they've had four winning seasons since since 2000. And that one was 2011, which was a straight short year they went 36 and 30. They've had 10 since 9495, which if you remember was Patrick Ewing's, like prime. They also in my opinion, cannot be forgiven for our Houston's $100 million contract. If you remember, he was really he was a really good player, right? 2001 they offered him six years $100 million, not one other team offered him more than 75. He couldn't finish out the last few years of his contract. That contract was so bad that the NBA actually instituted a rule named the Allan Houston rule. Giving teams a chance to release one player without his contract counting against luxury tax. There they are worthless franchise. worthless ownership right now, so I'm out on them. Good, Bobby.

Rob Kelly:

Yeah, to add on to that. So not only did they waste the career Patrick Ewing, the most memorable thing from that entire run, when you look at that entire Patrick Ewing run was Jeff Gan Jeff Van Gundy hanging on to Alan Houston's ankles at the bottom of a pile in the Eastern Conference Finals. You're telling me you're gonna have the best center that we've seen throughout the entire 90s besides Shaquille O'Neal, so the beginning of the 90s that we've seen throughout the beginning of the 90s, and that's the most memorable moment you give him. Plus, we've been the next, the most abominable, worst owner, the worst thing to happen to the NBA doesn't come into the NBA and James Dolan. Alright, so you'll automatically eliminate James Dolan out of the NBA. So to me that automatically takes the entire league up another peg. All right, they wasted Patrick Ewing, Carmelo Anthony. They hired Isaiah Thomas and put a black smudge on his name as the GM when he was one of the best point guards ever. Phil Jackson and other black smudge no matter what this team touches, it turns to garbage instantly. So yeah, new next year out,

Dave Clarke:

man. I mean, I thought I was going to be biased swayed by the thunder. The Oklahoma City Thunder Mike pick, not the Seattle SuperSonics thing but I don't know I fucking hate the Knicks. Jesus Christ. that's those are some good points. All right. Let's go over to Team Bilbo Baggins in here. The rebuttal to those points.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yeah, damn.

Dave Clarke:

raisons picturing a world where the Knicks are no longer.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Right, right. Right. Right. But as I totally understand, because like you said, James Dolan definitely is the worst owner really, probably on all the sports now that Donald Sterling is gone. Right. So I to me, he's been awful. But however, you know, they did give us players like Willis Reed, it did give us a coach, I read holsman You know, one of the best point guards in the 70s if not all in the NBA of all time at Walt Clyde Frazier, Dave de busha, Jerry Lucas dig bar Next, you know, Patrick Ewing, Bernard King, you know, you name like they gave us so many great players that come through that town, a microwave richeson. That might be where he played for the net. Sorry, but but all these other gods I named, you know, play from New York. And once again, those guys that are named in the 70s, they brought two championships to New York, you know, New York was known as the mecca of basketball, whether it's professionally called not because of what I'm saying. But there was a time when it was that they're, you know, saying so not maybe not now. But it was a time when that was that, once again, they made, you know, a document you're saying when the gardener was eating, because there was a time when he really was the supreme French. And obviously, it's been 40 some years since they won. So it makes sense to say, you know, there's, you know, we can do without, but they've had so many great players that come through there. And far as the island used to point. It's funny, like, at the time it was it was not the second contract we got but when he left from Detroit, and he was playing for Grant Hill, that Detroit team was really good, you know, New York prize amount of Detroit, he comes to to New York, and you know, he hits the game winner against the against the heat, and it's the conference finals when he beat the one which was that, that at that time, that's the only time that it happened. Besides, when the nuggets would be two songs back in 94. With the campaign matumbo. You know, there's a lot of things, a lot of moments, I feel like they gave that the sport of basketball. So like, I understand why people would want them gone. But I can just think of so many moments more than what I just named as to why they should still be around. But I do need to turn around for sure.

Joe Malkin:

Wait, you can I mean, you can go to the coaching ranks to right, and you can go you can talk about Mark Jackson, who played there, you can talk about Pat Riley. And then one other thing. And I've always believed that if you change one thing in history, you change everything after it right. So if Ray and Bobby don't start talking to each other in June of 2020, this never happens. Okay, but did you know that the New York Knicks also traded for Doc Rivers. So maybe if Doc Rivers never goes to the New York Knicks, he never becomes a coach for the Boston Celtics. And he never wins a championship in 2011. I mean, we can get rid of them. But if you get rid of the New York Knicks, you very likely get rid of the 2011 Boston or I'm sorry, 2008 Boston Celtics championship. I

Dave Clarke:

was mixing them up with the Bruins, but you very likely could get rid of that with a solid recovery route the rebuttals after Ray was floored by by the initial Nick's chat. I'm mixing it up. I didn't tell you guys this prior to the show, but I'm mixing it up. I'm gonna let you know my choices for all three categories. At the very end. I'm by myself time to mull it over because that was kind of hard. You both made some good points. While that's mulling like a fine wine. We're going to move on over to a final series, final series in the history of the National Basketball Association that you want to see deleted. You will never have happened it'll be gone. Those players will never have played no one will have won a chance have been shipped that year, and the repercussions there in. So, since Bilbo Baggins started last time, let's hear what you got dildo Swaggins

Rob Kelly:

Alright, so we are going to delete what is, in my opinion, the least interesting and possibly worst put together a team in the history of the NBA known as the 2004 NBA Finals between the Detroit Pistons and the Los Angeles Lakers. To me this series, just it was just dragging basketball, right? They went five games. And throughout those five games, there was one time where someone scored 100 points. One time that was in the clinching game five. All right, the field goal percentages. So I just want to read off some comments are some stats from this series. All right, we had the two of the greatest players that we have seen throughout the 90s and Karl Malone and Gary Payton. These two average five points a game and 4.2 points a game in this series, right? Three point percentage for these two teams, the Lakers shot 24% from three and the pistons shots 31% from three balls team shot under 42% from the field and under 70% from the free throw out. All right, this series was just garbage basketball. I know that pistons team was awesome. And I would never say that, like they didn't earn what they did, because I love every single player on that team. But if we're looking at the quality of basketball and what happened in NBA Finals series, this just didn't meet that level. We had Luke Walton from the Lakers playing 19 minutes a game, Slava meta vinko never even heard of this dude. And he was averaging 16 minutes a game in this series, as the people that were playing significant minutes in this NBA Finals series did not deserve to be on the court in the NBA Finals moment whatsoever. All right, Karl Malone and Gary Payton deserve better than what they were given from this series.

Michael Marcangelo:

Also like pardon my language, but fuck Larry Brown, like I I don't I'm not a big Larry Brown guy like you have the greatest coach of our era Phil Jackson and you he puts out the the bones and the skeletons of Gary Payton and Karl Malone. He has to end he has to watch Larry Brown hosted trophy instead of him. I just think if you remove this finals, your lasting image of Gary Payton and Karl Malone is better. You remember you think back fondly on them. You don't remember this train wreck of a finals after a pretty good season. But yeah, I think this is the most ridiculous and the most boring finals that I could ever imagine. And I also knew that it was gonna drive Raytheon crazy. Wow.

Dave Clarke:

Yeah. I mean, there was some hard there was some hard stuff to take in there for me. I do love the idea of deleting a Lakers and the Lakers even being in the finals because I hate them so much. But I don't know if Okay, well, let's see what the rebuttals have to say. Let's go over to Team Bilbo Baggins

Joe Malkin:

so right before you go because I know you're gonna go off for a while. You guys talked about the amount of minutes that some of these guys played in this are you even I can remember and I'm not the I am only the of the four hosts of the people actually on the show. I am the least versed in national the National Basketball Association. But I can tell you that I know rip Hamilton Chauncey Billups Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant, Derek Fisher, Gary Payton, Karl Malone, I don't care about the guys that were playing 16 minutes. Those are the guys that really mattered, right? And I can name every single one of them and new every single one of them are on these teams. So to delete that when you have to ban that when you have that much talent and that much star power, and how many of those guys are Hall of Famers? That's pretty bad to delete that even if it would make maybe how people view Karl Malone and Gary Payton. I mean, it was during a time when the Lakers were dominating. And that's why Dave mentioned he likes the idea of deleting the Lakers in the finals all together because we're all Celtics fans in some way, shape, or form. So of course, we want to get rid of the Lakers, but I just can't see deleting that much history and that kind of those kinds of names from NBA lore.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yeah, all right. So I'll start with Karl Malone because that's where you know, Mike kind of took his biggest shot during his little soliloquy over there. I mean, I wonder what last thing moment were you thinking of? Were you thinking of when he missed I'm saying the the final cut not overall in his career, but in the final so are we thinking about and you know, you know, game one in 97 him missing free throws to lose in the game? Are we thinking about Michael Jordan's game winner in game six and 98 you know, just pick one pick pick one have a moment. Oh, we're gonna remember says he didn't do much in 2004 right. We're on the tail end of their career. They were rain tasted before we taste it became the thing right now that's the social media. Oh, you're chasing? Listen, Karl Malone Gary Payne listen don't those guys were awesome players but that has to me that had nothing to do with them. And that listen to the Detroit Pistons we spoke about a team and once again Bobby loves that aspect of team I can't believe Bobby of all people chose the probably the best team not best individual players. Now guys that had loaded hot loader team loader Hall of Famers a team TM team. Hamilton Billups Rasheed Ben Wallace, tayshaun Prince, I'm probably missing out on nemmeno core at the time, like they had, they had this they had a team and that team defended. So yes, where everything now was 147 to 141. Just like it was in the 80s and like how it is now? Yeah, I want to see someone lock them to hell down. And that's what Detroit did. The only thing you remember in that series is Kobe Bryant in the game winner in game two, and it was an old man Lakers are back and then what happened? They got back to Detroit and Detroit beat their ass through three games in a row. And they beat them four to one so that's what I remember. I remember getting pain and and Luke Walton you know who's often coached out of Sacramento playing 90 minutes a game Who cares? They got smoked, and I'm happy they got smoked and Detroit shouldn't go nowhere. repairman says that the best five alive that's my guy shout out to you calling out to rip Hamilton. Shout out to Kosovo. That's where he's from is also my best friend's you know grandpa that's where he's from. So so that's why you know I'm a fan of of Hamilton too. But now man you were talking Bobby you love teams man. I can't believe that she went there but hey, it is what it is I get it but I said Detroit was an awesome team and I just to me dead they're not going anywhere. Get out of here.

Dave Clarke:

I mean, it brings up some interesting points because it's all coming back to me now like Chauncey Billups being a Finals MVP was crazy not knowing would have seen that Come on, but it was like the best guy on a team full of good guys. And then they ended the the end of the Kobe Shaq era. You know, like that was the end of it. They repeated and then it was like the pistons stopped him short. So all Celtics fans should have been happy about that because I know for a fact I've been listening about listening to fucking three P talks for the you know 15 years since or whatever Imagine if they want four in a row Jesus Christ Thank you. Thank you But Detroit Pistons plus, Jesus I we pick on the city Detroit a lot in this show, man, they don't have a lot you know, you're taking away their basketball championship Jesus fucking Christ. They barely put pistons in the fucking Hall of Fame. I you know, Joe made the point how many Hall of Famers are playing? I'm pretty sure every Hall of Famer that played in that series was on the fucking Lakers

Rayshawn Buchanan:

correct outside of Larry Brown Dave you're right there Yeah,

Dave Clarke:

I don't think and which is not fair. I think rip Hamilton and Chauncey Billups and Rasheed Wallace. Maybe not Ben walls are all Hall of Famers at least. So I should be or will be eventually. So. That's maybe not fair. That's maybe not fair right

Rayshawn Buchanan:

now. And I'm not.

Dave Clarke:

Yeah, right now they're not doing I think there was a lot of Hall of Famers on the Lakers team and it was, you know, it's A True Underdog Story. I feel like this is a mic pick. I think Bobby got talked into this one is am I right about that?

Rob Kelly:

No, I fucking hated that Lakers team. And that's why I actually lost Why would you hate but just even the way they were put together from day one just pissed me off. So when I saw I could ban that entire fucking, I just don't even want them in my existence anymore because that team just fucking pissed me off from day one.

Dave Clarke:

that's how that's how the Lakers have always been formed.

Rob Kelly:

I know but it was that was different though because they didn't just take it was worse than the star chasing we see now because they literally took guys that were on their last legs and they put them out there like they were going to be a championship team and they deserve better than what the Lakers did to them that year. That's all I thought was like fuck the Lakers were doing that to carbona Gary Payton they didn't deserve to be on that big stage and look like shit cuz that's what they did the entire series like they were any basketball players anymore. They literally they both average less than five points a game and their Hall of Fame.

Dave Clarke:

No, Shaq was so dropping like 38 times so much fun to watch

Rob Kelly:

all that was that's all that was so it was just like, are you guys kidding me? Like that's what you're gonna show me. That's the Karl Malone and Gary Payton. You're gonna show me how to chance to fucking win a championship the fuck out of here. Sell me on that shit all year.

Dave Clarke:

You know what's crazy. Karl Malone was like number two.

Joe Malkin:

Karl Malone was 40 though. That's right. I mean, what

Unknown:

the fuck were they do 40 and he was I know you're getting

Rob Kelly:

a disgrace to the NBA Finals. If you go back and watch those tapes. It's just a disgrace to what you expect from the NBA Finals.

Dave Clarke:

I'll say this. If you watch if you watch those those like any old final series, like pre 1998 it's shockingly different than watching the NBA now. There's a lot of like around the rim play all that stuff. And I will say to your point also Ray about ring chasing it is an absolute fucking myth that it started recently Wilt Chamberlain Dude, that shit. Will Chamberlain demanded a fucking trade to the Los Angeles Lakers like people just because the social media era people go like oh, what the fuck Kevin Durant I agree because it's like they've been doing it for years small market teams the

Rob Kelly:

NBA can't win for that reason. It today didn't feel like a rich case to me. It felt like the Lakers. It felt like a Lakers ring chase to me. That's what it felt like from day one. It didn't feel like what

Rayshawn Buchanan:

do you want to go for four straight though? Yeah, of course. But like, what actually matter of fact, if

Michael Marcangelo:

it wasn't for straight, was it It wasn't gonna be four

Rob Kelly:

or five years because then it Tony Horton five because they lost that one.

Dave Clarke:

It was a it was Oh, it's 2000 2001 2002 and then they lost to no three. That was the three peat Okay, cool. I don't know because fuck the Lakers.

Joe Malkin:

If you have the opportunity, if you have Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant, who we know that they had a rift between them. If you have Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant and Derek Fisher, and you have the opportunity to bring in Gary Payton and Karl Malone. Are you saying no. But you know what I mean? Like, are you would you actually say No, and I understand your point. I don't disagree. But are you actually going to say no to bring them in even though they were 35 and 40? respectively? At the time like, yeah, you bring them in? And if your ring Chase, and that's fine. I mean, that is what the NBA has always been about more than any other League, except for maybe now the NFL this year with what Tampa is trying to do.

Rob Kelly:

And if it means that when it comes down to this shit and grind down to game five when a clinching game, and you have to try it out there as two key pieces, Luke Walton and Slava. medvednica. Yeah, I think I passed. I'm sorry. I think I would. You know what, I'm just like, there's so many other pieces that could have built that team and like, Listen, we always say we have to remove ourselves from our fandom. Alright, and I'm just saying that was that was a disgrace. I tried to get high and mighty Alright, fine. I'm just saying like, it was just a disgrace to what I expect from the NBA Finals. I remember watching and being like, this is fucking I love was I love rip Hamilton. I was UConn fan from day one. So I love I it shames me or changed me. It pains me to take away a championship from Ray Pamela Here we go. But that was not a display.

Dave Clarke:

Mike's like it. Here comes Bobby making a point for the other team. All right, I

Joe Malkin:

know we should probably move on to the third category. But let me just throw this out there because this was always Shaq sting. Right? Shaq in this Siri series shot 49.1% from the line.

Dave Clarke:

Wild? That's so bad. You guys didn't tell me yours yet, though. Right? We got bogged down in that. All right. So we're going back over a week we got bogged down in that and you know, I'll save it for the end but doesn't look good for you guys. Moving over to Team Bilbo Baggins, tell me what final series would you ban?

Rayshawn Buchanan:

So we actually, you know, got into time machine and just went two years further back. We're canceling the 2002 finals between the nets and the Lakers. And maybe not for a reason that you think but if you remember that's the team that are actually the 2001 sweater two season was the first year that the Celtics one of the pole pairs ever really started to have some type of problems right like you know, it's time a little bit climb a little bit you know, routine is finally gone. You know, Jim O'Brien was assistant takes over. And you know, they go 49 to 33. They smack Philadelphia in the closing game in the first round. They beat Detroit who had you know, Chelsea believes in that time and Joe Sacco they beat that team and then they you know, they face the next right but the next guy swept in that finals. It like said we lost him at six games, but I just I want to catch that finals because I felt like there should have been the Celtics there. Right? And once again, I get it. Jason Kidd was probably the best player in the East at that time. And then we you know, you pair him with kettles. And you pair him with a hate Martin and Richard Jefferson and Aaron Williams and you know, Lucious Harris. I get it but to me, you know, I'm forever pissed about this series because I wanted Boston to get there. Were we have been encoded in Shaq. No, but as Bobby knows that we talked about this off the air. There was a game that year in Los Angeles that same season, that la was just annihilating the Celtics, you know, Tommy highest and God rest his soul. Good on there, Mike. We're gonna win this game. I'm telling you, we're gonna win this game. I love Walter. And that's, you know, he was saying I'll never forget that. And that's all Walker hits about 1.5 seconds left on the clock, hits the hits a shot off the glass, you hit my bike, Garmin, got it. And it's a walker on the glass. 1.5 I'm going nuts to my grandma's living room. Right so I wanted that moment in the finals for anthem and I wanted that moment in the finals for Paul Pierce. I wanted Kenny understand, you know, who would got there you know, before what some other teams but just never got that chance to be on their stage. Like I wanted them to win, you know, as we bring them along. So we want to ring the alarm and bring the Celtics to the NBA Finals and get the job done so the Nets can get out of there. And once again, if you know maybe we might break up the three p two if we get there too soon, though, so you know that 2002 finals Get it out of here.

Joe Malkin:

I mean, Jason Kidd was best part of that team in my mind, right? I mean, we at least Detroit had a better I mean, granted New Jersey finished first in the East that year, but there was so much to look at that year and have the Celtics gotten there. There's no way they get swept. So, I mean, why not? Why, let's just get rid of it. And, you know, another one of our favorite Celtics of all time was on that New Jersey team. And, you know, I just feel like we need to take away his pain of getting swept by the Lakers in the finals. And that's Brian scalabrini. Let's just let's just take it away

Rayshawn Buchanan:

the white Mamba. That's right. That's right.

Joe Malkin:

Exactly. And let's you know, the white mama got swept by the black mama and that's just the way it goes. And again, I mean, we all want to see the Lakers have a series taken away have a ring taken away. So let's take this one away because that that next team didn't deserve to be there.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Right and either year. Oh, two or three?

Dave Clarke:

Yeah, yeah, I don't I remember that final series for that Pierce run because Celtics run because it was the first year I ever watched the Celtics. I was living in Chicago at the time. Mostly watching the Chicago Bears. My brother came home from college and showed me the showed me the Boston Celtics before I even knew I was going to move to Massachusetts so that was a magical year you really really touched the cockles of my heart breaking that year up the rest is history as they say. I haven't decided yet Bobby I haven't decided yet but I'll let you guys know at the end of

Rob Kelly:

it Really? Sounds like you haven't decided Yeah, we just went different routes on that one. All right, you got you played to the heart. I just played to the basketball nerd myself but I just

Unknown:

Bobby that someone said they went the winning route and we went the losing route so we might as

Dave Clarke:

well what that we haven't decided that yet.

Michael Marcangelo:

It's been decided. I mean, we

Rob Kelly:

The thing is like I I really like I wish we went to the finals out here too. So I couldn't eat. Like, I'm not going in but I'm just saying that would have been fucking awesome if that team went to the finals. We just talked about that the other night. That's bullshit. Why

Michael Marcangelo:

before we move on is like typically what happens is we articulate our point and then they will and they'll be like, Oh, yeah, like you're right. This time. We were like okay, well, Bobby was like this is going to be a winning one this finals was so bad. This is the only one and then within 30 seconds of rayshawn saying what he said I get a little message from Bobby saying, Well, that wasn't enough for us. He knew that was just trying to

Dave Clarke:

Bobby's the equivalent of the guy who doesn't know which way you're playing so he runs and started scoring points on his own basket true Wait,

Rob Kelly:

you guys know me you guys know me you even appealed to my Celtics heart You know my Celtics are bees 10 times bigger it's fine Fuck you. Fuck you. It doesn't matter everyone everyone listens Celtics fans too, so they're just gonna appreciate it when it comes down to it

Joe Malkin:

all right, Bobby, see how much we like you when it comes to the Celtics but when it comes to the Cowboys

Dave Clarke:

moving on moving to fight to the final category trying to try and wrangle these cats into a bag at this point Bobby I thought it was a great performance otherwise before you started scoring their points for about otherwise I thought your points were very passionate and it almost has me swayed so let's see where it goes. I don't know yet. Okay, give me Yeah,

Michael Marcangelo:

I deserve to Manny does DK like Why don't you he's already given them the point why cuz

Dave Clarke:

that's not how the fucking game works, guys. All right, try not to bring down the whole goddamn House of Cards. Moving on to the last category.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Till all Kevin Spacey over.

Dave Clarke:

trade is the final category. I'm going to go over to Team Bilbo Baggins because they've been better behaved on this podcast. And I'm going to ask them what is the one trade in the history as it is actually? What is the one trade in the history of the National Basketball Association dating back to its creation that you would ban from history? Tell me go alright.

Joe Malkin:

There's so many trades in the NBA that have been one sided lopsided, but this one has more controversy behind it. Because this trade alone started something none of us like again started it again. And then, well, let me just read you through it. We're gonna go with the power cell trade to the Lakers on February 1 2008. It's considered one of the most lopsided trades of its time not in the history of the NBA, but of its time, as Pau Gasol was acquired for him and a second round pick for Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton, Aaron McKee, the rights to his brother, Mark. I know Ray, I'm just going off what I got Marcus Saul and two first round picks. All right, that's pretty lopsided. Because Three years later, there was another trade conversation involving Pau Gasol with Chris Paul. The Lakers wanted to acquire Chris Paul and Dwight Howard in 2011, but and ultimately sent Pau Gasol to Houston. The trade was ultimately struck down by David Stern as it was not in the best interest of the league, but the Trade involving Gasol in 2008. led to the team winning two championships, and then essentially running the league. But the 2011 trade wouldn't have been in the best interest of the league. But it probably would have been more lopsided hadn't been allowed to happen. And that probably would have been what we would have been then. So let's just get rid of this one and get rid of two more Lakers championships, right?

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yeah, absolutely. And like, every time I hear about that trade, like, I laugh because I'm like, you know, divorce credit is funny, cuz I've read on nba.com I've, like, I read the press release of the trade. And it talks about, you know, yeah, you know, the Lakers already have guards like Farmar and Fisher and somebody else but it was like, Oh, you know, a crane is a is taller, you know, he's gonna be more versatile. And I laughed, because if you don't know anything about Jabara crane, and he's someone I end up getting in trouble in Washington for Gilbert Arenas. And you know, it's like, it's a slam dunk to make jokes about that, because he has more gun charges that he does NBA wins, probably, you know, it's unbelievable to see that he was really that's how it peaks in that spreadsheet in 2008. And I mean, like you said, I mean that 2011 a pie would have been would have surpassed us but I mean, my God, you basically gave Paul was all up for a bag of chips in you know, a Diet Pepsi. And it was unbelievable to me that they say here You know what? Kobe you guys are number one in the West. You know, you came off for a year where you had 35 points, even though you guys lost this seven games to finish the year before you know what you guys are doing well, this year, let's give you another crack at the ring. You know, thank God is Alexander winning that year. But you know, you know, the next day giving them back to back championships and giving them another run, like Joe said, really is is unforgivable. So for that I forever and was pissed off at David Stern god bless his soul even though you're the best Commissioner this league that League has ever seen and really sports has ever seen in my opinion. I was really mad today. Let that happened at the time and still Lord, because like I said, it went from Kobe having three rings and having five and yeah, so that just further, you know, helped the Lakers narrative to help their franchise so that pissed me off.

Dave Clarke:

Good rebuttal. Although two things have been said tonight that I categorically disagree with you just said David Stern is the best Commissioner in history of Miami basketball. I think Adam Silver's better and Mike earlier said that Phil Jackson is the best coach in our lifetime and it's definitely Gregg Popovich. So just wanted to make sure I called that out moving over to the

Rayshawn Buchanan:

top so I'm here for that.

Dave Clarke:

Yeah, there you go. He's buttering me up that's trying to get this last one. Moving over to the rebuttal of that of that Pau Gasol trade What do you guys think? Why is it important? Why should we keep it

Rob Kelly:

so it's not that we should keep it's just it's you're telling me that's the most lopsided trade like it's this crazy lopsided trade but yet now we see people get traded for like 14 first round draft picks, but those are okay. So you're telling me that just two draft picks indicates that like, this is the most lopsided like, No, listen, they got Pau Gasol. And they got back to draft picks Kwame brown and some good role player on a team and Marcus Aw, who is still in this league making an impact to this day. So they got back honestly, one of the most in that deal the most the player with the longest longevity out of everyone. So in my opinion, that deal wasn't that lopsided. I don't think it meets the criteria. It's not fitting, changing the league in any way. Like you're just taking away a couple championships in the Lakers who says Kobe Bryant's not gonna win those championships anyways, it's fucking Kobe Bryant. He's one of the best basketball players we've ever seen, man.

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, I mean, you guys just pandering you just just know Dave hates the Lakers. Like I applaud it but like that's not a that's not an earth shattering trade to

Dave Clarke:

not to not to interrupt you, Mike, but I put I am gonna interrupt you. I'm sorry. But it doesn't pander to me. Because the way I view it if they don't trade for Pau Gasol and the Lakers don't go to the finals and we don't get to beat the Lakers in the finals.

Michael Marcangelo:

I that's how I view it. So don't worry about me. Like this trade doesn't even crack the top 10 for me, like I don't think that this is ultra league altering at all. But I mean, it's good for you guys for arguing for it. I can't even argue against it. It's that not important to me. What a dick.

Joe Malkin:

It was, but it was precedent setting instead of precedent because again, then, a trade three years later was struck down with this trade in mind because they felt it directly led to two championships.

Rob Kelly:

But if that trade happens, Chris Paul probably makes a bigger impact on that team than fucking Paul Casal would you know what I mean? Like you take away this trades and they get Chris Paul.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Hey, man, listen, they don't win without Congress all night. 19 and nine and two first career no way that he that was the big man he needed what he did. He didn't think he needed enough to know for but when they got the sole that gave him the guy in the middle

Rob Kelly:

because Andrew bottom, but if Marcus all develops into the player that he was supposed to be, they might

Rayshawn Buchanan:

know he's paga sounds better than Mark though.

Rob Kelly:

Yeah, but I'm just saying like,

Rayshawn Buchanan:

what happened in Memphis though? Nothing. No, I'm saying what you're saying is right. But what happened in Memphis because he played with Memphis, but what happened with him was Zach Randolph,

Rob Kelly:

you have Kobe Bryant and Memphis It was not Kobe Bryant bro. Kobe Bryant makes centers look magical.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

They made it was to come as far as about I think two times, right? Just like us. Okay, but but a loss I mean he

Rob Kelly:

is still there. Yeah.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Hey man he was he was a pal. It was a pal. He was good, but he was a pal Just saying.

Dave Clarke:

And yeah, it took him a lot longer to be good mark. Like the marks trade stock wasn't super high when that trade went down. But and to Dan's point earlier,

Joe Malkin:

just the last point to this point earlier is that so many players and why that 2011 trade was struck down. So many players move from small market teams, meaning that they're likely not going to win a championship. So if Pau Gasol stays in Memphis, maybe Memphis is able to build something instead of that trade going through and maybe Memphis wins two championships down the line and La doesn't

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Yeah, I mean that no, sorry last point to that so cuz that's he I think that's he made the playoffs maybe two years before that traded happened. You know, people forget that team had Mike Miller show miles swift damage, Stottlemyre. You know that those Grizzly teams were pretty decent in the mid 2000 was up brown took over and became the coach. So I don't know, like I said, I mean, do they get to the finals? I mean, that that would have been would have been great. Because, you know, that'd be great for Memphis to be known for something outside of their great ribs. But to me, I like that. I just think that Trey really did help Trey. So that's funny that Mike would even say that it's not even his top 10 that's fine. I can't wait to hear what they say. So I can say it's not important to me either. So let's hear it.

Dave Clarke:

Yeah, I guess that's as good a transition as any guys let's hear who what trade you're gonna ban.

Michael Marcangelo:

Thank you, Mr. sizzle. Team Hollywood, Broadway. I didn't know about the name change before the show and our fellow listeners on July 17 1992. a travesty occurred. The Philadelphia 70 sixers dealt their best player Charles Barkley to the Phoenix Suns for Jeff hornacek Andrew Lang and Tim Perry. It's a trade that then GM didn't lineham said he still regret to this day. A few questions that can be asked what could have been? How would the Sixers have fared if they had kept Barkley? Well, with the Bulls pacers, Knicks and magic all looming in the east and NBA championship, or even the conference title looks improbable, but instead of having to wait until the 98-9 season to make the playoff again, the Sixers would hav stuck around in the postseaso mix. They would have picke lower the number two in the 199 draft and therefore would no have made the infamous decisio to take Sean Bradley over Penn Hardaway and Jamal mashburn an 95-96 seasons Bart Barkley turn d 33 years old but still averag d 23.2 points and 11 rebounds p r contest making his 10th All St r game, the Sixers probab y wouldn't have had a gre t season, but they definite y would not have lost 64 games a d won the opportunity to dra t Allen Iverson. Nevertheless, a d one of the best drafts ever, t e team still might have snagg d Kobe Bryant 13th overall r Steve Nash 15th. Overall, eith r one of those Hall of Fame s paired with Barkley would ha e dramatically altered the dynas y of the Chicago Bulls, and t e NBA, as we know it, for the e reasons and others that you wi l hear we call for the immedia e dismissal and permanent banni g of this trade from the histo y books. I yield the floor o Bobb

Rob Kelly:

So beyond the Kobe Bryant portion, the thing that impacts everything the most is that what we do is we take a piece, we put Charles Barkley in the Eastern Conference for Michael Jordan to have to go through every single season from 1992 until he retires. Okay, so at this point, there is no way. So you think about the competition that Michael actually had to get out east throughout that entire run. The best teams are the bowls, and the Pacers. If you put Charles Barkley and Kobe Bryant or Charles Barkley and Steve Nash, or any of those prolific players from that 96th draft with Charles Barkley, that is a force to be reckoned with. And you change everything about the NBA. You don't just trade change, Michael Jordan, you change how we look at LeBron James right now you change how we look at so much of the NBA right now. Because I guarantee you there would have been at least one or two years where the Sixers beat the bowls and seven, and we're seeing sixers jazz. Are we seeing sixers rockets instead of bowls every single year? I'm just saying you look at the competition. It's just is just so you see it. Reggie Miller, Allen Houston. Those were the biggest pieces he had to get buy in the east. And now you're gonna put Charles Barkley and possibly Steve Nash, Charles Barkley and possibly Kobe Bryant, Charles Barkley and possibly Penny Hardaway. There's so many options in that 96 draft, that you could have built a powerhouse coming out of that yeast to stop Michael Jordan, and it would have changed so much. Maybe he stays a little longer. Maybe he doesn't retire after six. Or maybe he doesn't even get that six and all sudden it's not Michael. Coming back to the wizards. It's Michael playing for the bowl. Until 2002. You know, there's so much altering history that takes place if Charles Barkley never leaves the Eastern Conference.

Dave Clarke:

Wow, compelling stuff. I especially liked the thematic. Senate read off by Mike mark. Angela. That was that was definitely that definitely hit the spot for me. All right, guys, what do you what do you have to say? Why can't we ban that trade?

Rayshawn Buchanan:

Okay, can you tell me the date of that trade again? My

Michael Marcangelo:

July 17 1992.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

I guarantee you No one's heard about that trade. Tonight.

Michael Marcangelo:

We just talked about it.

Rayshawn Buchanan:

You just don't say but nobody, no one talks about it. So now, right. So Charles Barkley wasn't the reason that Jordan was going to not make it through the east, right? His he went seven with the next he went to seven with Detroit. Those teams lost. Some of those teams lost the Celtics early on. They lost the Cleveland early on before they started being Cleveland. Cleveland was more formidable. New York was more formidable. Detroit was more formidable, you know. So there's other teams that would have gotten it before you even thought about Philly, right. And Philly was in transition mode after losing Moses Malone. After losing Dr. J. Murray seeks you know, Andrew, Tony, you know, you might go Verona you name it, they lost a lot of people. So by the time Charles really in his prime Philly wasn't making in the first round, but I know I remember. The Knicks swept them in the late 80s. They just really wasn't a good team, but Philly so my thing is, even if you do get to 96, and you know, you guys forgot one part, which is okay. You know, that's why I'm here to help. The year before they drafted Jerry Stackhouse and 95 out of my favorite college team University, North Carolina. You know, Stackhouse, as I was saying, was a pretty good tandem, or at least for two years before they traded Jerry Stackhouse. But a trio of Stackhouse, Barkley and Iverson, at that time wasn't going to do anything in the east. And honestly, Allen Iverson, if you go back to the tape, he was the consensus picker. Number one, he was the right picker number one. So you know, it wasn't you know, you know, I get it. Ray Allen was in that draft. You know, Kobe was in that draft. Nash was in that draft. Jermaine O'Neal was in that draft pages. The octopus was in that draft, you know, so there was that's probably outside of 84 and two out of three. That's probably the best draft really of all time. So I get it I that it adds to your narrative. And I completely understand that. But I just don't think at that time. Seeing a trio of Stamkos Barkley and Iverson really gets the job done. Because mind you 96 the boulders just came off and 72 in 10 win season. There was no one beating them once they got Rodman and Pippen to add to that team, but Ryan Harper, and you know, Luke Walton, those guys like they were just so cohesive, you know, Steve hurt during this thing, like that team was not losing Jeff hornacek, who end up being, you know, a guy that the bulls and are facing later on, but I mean, Jeff hornacek wasn't someone to write home about. He wasn't a Phoenix, he wasn't at Utah. He You know, he gets you 15 points a game. But you know, that was that was so good. He would have helped out your boy, Karl Malone. You know, we talked about him earlier in the segment. And he didn't, you know, chose our force. You couldn't get the job done. But, you know, was it outside of trade? Sure. It is something that most people talk about. Not really, in my opinion. I said, I haven't heard about it really until we talked about it now. But to me, I don't consider that the most lopsided trade ever. Because it wasn't something that was again, it didn't change the whole landscape of the NBA. It just gave us a really good team. And they still fell to number 23. Michael Jordan.

Rob Kelly:

So we we care about the robot real quick?

Joe Malkin:

No, you can't because I got a robot. I got it. I got a robot, the robot of the robot. Charles Barkley had, he was 30 years old at the time that he was traded in, in 1990, the 9293 season, okay. He he had a number of issues while he was in Philadelphia. And everything that you see when you look into this trade is that Philadelphia was looking to move in a different direction. So really, all Philly was trying to do was unload this player, regardless of who it was, they were trying to unload one of the best players of that time to get a number of pieces back in order to revamp their franchise, and Phoenix at the time had those pieces that they wanted. And that's what they went out and did. Which you can't really blame a franchise for wanting to do that. And you can look at it and say, Well, if they had kept them, maybe they would have done this against Chicago. Well, Charles Barkley was big and lumbering and slow. He wasn't going to keep up with the pace of the teams in the East that you talk about what the Pacers and the bulls, so they did what was best for them at the time, and it allowed a small market team like Phoenix to get really good, really fast. That's one reason why I think it's a great trade. And it was on the other end, and we usually say teams get fleeced by trader Danny I think the sons fleeced Philadelphia in this trade without a doubt, but you can't say that it's one of the I mean, we all are passing over probably one of the worst trades of all time, and that's when Charlotte traded Kobe Bryant But this trade was not nearly as bad even though you can. But if you look like two or three levels deeper, you can understand why it wasn't a bad trade.

Michael Marcangelo:

I just have two points. It's just because they were just directly mentioned Bobby, I'm sorry. And I'm sorry, Senate president. But to your point, Joe, actually, Jim,

Dave Clarke:

Madam Speaker, from now on, please. Thank you,

Michael Marcangelo:

Madam sisal, the, the general manager at the time. The gentleman was on a podcast this year in 2020. In St. Charles from him from his perspective, he made it known in no uncertain terms that he didn't want to be here. And I would say in hindsight, this is just me my own personal opinion. We made a big mistake in listening to him. I tell Charles this to this day, they didn't want him out. He wanted out, because they were unable to build around him. This is still being talked about that podcast happened in May of 2020. So they still feel it. It's still relevant, and it could have brought it could have just altered the league. But God, Bobby.

Rob Kelly:

So you guys say that, you know, Charles Barkley wasn't in his prime, he wouldn't have brought them. You he won the MVP the year after they traded him to the suns. He won the MVP the next year. So you're telling me that? Yeah, I brought out the you're telling me That's

Dave Clarke:

right. It's like the eighth time you said it on this podcast

Rob Kelly:

just for the record? is it's a debate. It's a debate at me, you know, so you take him and you put him on the Sixers team? Yes, they're not as good as the songs were. But like we said, they're right in that 500 area. They're fighting for those playoff spots. They happen to miss out on the playoffs. 96 they're right there for one of these guys. And if Barkley is there, and he is his prime Barkley, like I think you guys forget what Charles Barkley was when he was a player. He wasn't a slow, and he wasn't a guy just, you know, a big lumbering guy down the court. No, he was an athletic 610 power forward, that would out athleticism setters to rebounds, he was getting 21 rebounds a game, because of how athletic and how strong he was, not because how big he was. It had nothing to do with his lumbering, you know, ridiculousness? No, this dude knew how to play basketball. He knew how to get rebounds, and he knew how to score. If he's in that Eastern Conference. It's a whole different element throughout the whole 90s. It adds a whole wrinkle that no one that that Michael Jordan, and that team wouldn't have been built for is a whole different element in that whole dynasty. Right? But that's why

Rayshawn Buchanan:

we said 96, though, because I said 992 done. Like you said, You said you want to give up that makes sense. But 96 is actually when he would have been the year he got to Houston so that 9697 year when he dreamed he teamed up with Drexler who teamed up with a came a larger one, and really formed a super team in Houston. He still had a really decent year playing with those guys. But Matter of fact, you know, who put them out? Jeff hornacek and, and Utah, john Stockton hit a game winner to send them home in six games. So it's just like, I'm not he would have had good numbers once again, they would have been entertaining. I just don't see. I don't see them getting to that next level. Even at age 33. They wouldn't make their players like you said but my thing he talked about contending and beating Mike 996 9798 Mike even though the bulls are on their last run, as we saw on the last dance, I don't know them guys was just different at that time, man, Mike was Scottie was the best duo. And everyone was underneath. That's my take on it. But it could have happened but like I've made

Dave Clarke:

my choices. I'm going to go in reverse order. Since we're talking about the How to Sell trade versus the Charles Barkley trade in 92. I'm gonna I'm gonna let them banned the Charles Barkley trade. It's for a few reasons. One is I do agree that it's more interesting landscape of Barclays stays in the east. I was thinking before Bobby said it. I was thinking I think he won the MVP right around that time, so it's kind of a dumb trade for the Sixers. I like I think about Barkley as the 76 or like his attitude, his whole thing I know that his most famous highlights he's got that Phoenix Phoenix Suns jersey on because his most famous highlights involve him getting in a fistfight with Shaquille O'Neal. But But otherwise, I just I gotta let them end because the whole thing like I said, he gets the Lakers they're losing too they're losing series. He's also kind of responsible for their winning series to along with Coby but I'm gonna let that trade let that trade go Charles, if you're listening, you stayed on the 76 or so stop telling people you play for the suns going back one more category. What final series Am I going to allow? banned? I think that we said that was sort of everybody's looking I think we already know the answer to that question. But the Bilbo Baggins team does win that one I do need a reminder give me a quick refresher would you guys pick?

Rayshawn Buchanan:

oh two series right? Lakers

Joe Malkin:

It doesn't matter what it is cuz you already got rid of it. Right?

Dave Clarke:

Well, that's why it's probably it's already been deleted from the from my brain. And it definitely isn't the alcohol abuse that made it maybe not remember. The shit really works. Yeah, dude, really, man and stuff. We're changing lives over here.

Joe Malkin:

Alright, Dan Campbell was not named the head coach of the Detroit Lions Yeah, don't exist.

Dave Clarke:

So call back. So as it's tied at one one, I'm gonna go back to the first category, which I did think was the closest team Bilbo Baggins wanted to ban the Oklahoma City Thunder because they thought that the Seattle SuperSonics deserves to deserve to still be a franchise and team dildo. Swaggins wanted to ban the New York Knicks because of all their shitty Nic related, you know, shenanigans in the past probably two and a half to three decades of our lives. You can't ban the Knicks you just can't it's not it. You can't do it. It's I know

Rob Kelly:

Dolan bro, how much do you hate James Dolan

Unknown:

have? You know that?

Dave Clarke:

out of it and I just think of course he does on pure Spike Lee. You know, I just wouldn't want to rub him the wrong way. He's one of my favorite directors to five bloods is great. And he sees

Rob Kelly:

their stadium is famous because opposing players go off in their stations. famous, famous for its famous because Michael Jordan scored 60 All right,

Joe Malkin:

Michael Jordan is one of the greatest basketball players of all right,

Unknown:

Bobby scored. You changed my mind? I don't know. Swaggins wins. Now. I'm just kidding. You

Dave Clarke:

guys lost? Sorry. No, I just it's honestly, it's honestly just like the Knicks as well. And it was raisons point that swayed me. I was very down to ban the Knicks when you guys brought it up, but they are important, you know, they

Michael Marcangelo:

are important. on them, they were important in the 70s. And they were important

Dave Clarke:

means are important, you know, and the Oklahoma City Thunder unfortunately, we could lose them and like nothing. That bad would happen. You know what he was anything related to time travel, and they always say like, don't go back in time and change anything. And then like somebody steps on a fucking twig and then they go back and all their families have like acids grown out of the sides of their heads. I feel like if we did we if we're safer to delete the Oklahoma City Thunder because nothing bad's gonna happen if we delete the Knicks like something's gonna get fucked up. You know, I mean, like, and it's in the space time continuum. Too much has gone on you know, like it's the

Rob Kelly:

end game time travel theory it's not a separate we're not going separate time time line. Oh,

Dave Clarke:

yeah. Like Like all movies that I'm traveling are banning show makes absolutely no fucking sense. Because we don't know how time travel works. Anyway, I'm gonna play us out with a rendition of Johnny be good as Marty McFly does, at the end of the first Back to the Future trying to get his parents together at the end champion of the see dance. That's and Back to the Future trivia for you all are pretty basic. That's it. That's it. Um, congratulations to Team Bilbo Baggins for winning. That about does it for get that out of here. I appreciate all your participation in this week's game show. Congratulations to the winners. They get a bonus point toward their NBA predictions for this season. Go listen to that show. If you haven't listened to it and get caught up on the context. If you haven't listened to our recent shows, we have a great NHL preview that the guys did came out last week or this week. Well, it's out and Mike and I interviewed mixed martial artists in front of the show Hillary rose about this weekend Conor McGregor, Dustin Poirier UFC 257 clash I will be watching that I have a passing interest. And that'll do it for this lovable band of rapscallions. That makes up this podcast for the whole band producer Craig Broadway Joe Malkin, hollywood Ray Shawn Buchanan, the Boylston Street flasher Mike Mark Angelo the real BK Bob Kelly I MDK says Dave Clark. We tried and failed to get to it but as usual we are missing the point.