Knicks Complete Historic NBA Finals Comeback, Spurs Collapse, and Conor McGregor’s Complicated UFC Return

Cold Open And Finals Chaos

0:06

It's Missing the Point. Guess what? Lots of stuff's happening in the world of sports, the wide world of sports, the wonderful wide world of sports. But mainly we're here to talk about the NBA Finals and the biggest comeback in finals history. The Knicks down 29 points came back against the San Antonio Spurs in, I guess, my lead-off question, what fashion? Was it a generational collapse or what is it a generational comeback? Matt Wilcox, he's here with me to talk about it. Matt, it-- was it the Spurs losing, the Knicks winning, a combination of both? Let's do a real around the horn type question to start us off I guess if I had to pick, I, I, I'll say it was both. It was the stars and the Spurs. Coward. Coward. Coward. I'll say- You know what sitting on the fence gets you? A pointy fence up the ass. You, you listen to me, Dave. I don't even wanna talk about this game. I hate basketball. I'm not gonna watch it next year. I hate the Knicks and this bullshit. I'm, I'm suffering from gambling loss, which, uh, because of you, I didn't even bet on the only game that the Spurs won 'cause you m- you made me not bet so you could win some money. I did win money on that, but then I lost money on the comeback because all my bets were gonna pay off before they fucking, they, they catastrophically lost. And then I have to go online and watch these Knick fans, these scumbag Yankee fans celebrate all across their city and burn it to the ground. So I think that it's a combination of two things. I think Wemby coming out and shooting, like, what, 8 for 30, uh, that sucks. That's... You're not gonna win a game like that when you only have a first half. It looked like everyone came out and their foot was off the gas, and when you looked at the Knicks, it looked like they were, they were very sure that there was still time left on the clock, and they pushed, and pushed, and pushed, and they got it to a po- they got to a point where it looked like the Spurs were gassed out, and they just could not hold on to that. I think it was only, there was an 11-point lead at one point that ended the game. I'm gonna, I'm gonna zag. I think the Spurs

Spurs Fumble Knicks Refuse To Quit

2:10

fucking fumbled that game really, really badly. I'm gonna preface this with a little bit of grace and kindness in the sense that they're collectively fetuses. They're, uh, I think their average age of the team is 11, and I think that the way sports broadcasting works in this day and age and the way that we're a product of instant gratification and you have a tiny s- rectangle in your phone that's giving you fucking brain damage, you sort of forget to feel what it was like to be a 21-year-old and maybe not have the ability to stay poised in the fucking NBA finals when you're mounting a comeback against a really gritty and difficult New York Knicks team. Um, maybe you don't have that quality, uh, developed yet. Sorry. The, it really fucking annoys me when the s- wider sporting commentary world decides on something like, "The Knicks are not gonna win this series. Like, they're gonna get their bell to ass. The Spurs are gonna come fuck them up. The Spurs are dominant. The Spurs are here. They're ahead of schedule. It is..." And then you get mad because you decided something that didn't come true, and I just don't understand that as a thought experiment. Like, why would you be pissed off at these kids at this point? I, I'll tell you what people are doing. They're, they're finding a way to get pre-mad at them- Because this team is still gonna fucking put their dick in your ear for the next decade. And it just is what's gonna happen. And yeah, this sucks obviously for them. And I'm, I'm-- I almost sound like a Spurs fan at this point. I'm not. I en-re- have really enjoyed watching them play basketball. I really like their guards. I really like the way they play swarmy defense. I love watching Victor Wembanyama. It's a lot of fun. I don't even like it as much as, like, watching, as far as neutral team watching goes, I don't even like it as much as watching the Timberwolves. So it's, it's It's upsetting to me that I have to watch a 23-year-old Victor Wembanyama get an egg thrown at his fucking head by, I have to tell you, the collectively worst fucking fan base I've ever seen across all of sports. New York Knick f- fans, I can't believe that you're as bad as Eagles fans. I, I can't believe it. I honestly can't believe it. When we first started talking about this run by the New York Knicks, me and Matt, Matt tried to warn me about you guys. He fucking tried to warn me about you guys, and I didn't listen. I, I, I sat there going, "But they're such perennial underdogs. They, they, they haven't had the ability to, like, sh- to, to, to win anything in, in so long. It's, it's so, it's so... It's such an inspiring story. New York is a mecca of basketball. Everything that we wanna see out of a, a team that everyone doubted. Nobody knew the Knicks were coming in." And you told me, what did you say? You said, "Those are also Yankees fans." Right? I did. I did indeed. "Those are also Giants fans and Jets fans. Like, the, the... None of those people are fans of a, of an NFL team where their quarterback, quarterback plays in the state of New York." Okay? So it's like, uh, you're, you were right. You were right. Those, those Knicks fans- Thank you watching them fucking attack Spurs fans after they won, I, I just, that made no sense to me. What are you angry about? You just won. I don't know. I don't get it. I like Jalen Brunson a lot. I, I like the underdog story there. Um, I think that OG Anunoby's having a fucking generational run, uh, for, for a guy of his caliber and position. I think that Josh Hart should buy him a fucking car for, from now, every year from now to the end of time- because that dude honestly was so fucking ready to blow the comeback. Like, he tried everything. He missed the layup, and then he was caught fucking ball watching. It, it looked, it looked like an all-time J.R. Smith award coming his way. I really thought that that was gonna happen, but it didn't, lucky for him. Um, I don't know. I, I mean, I, I don't know what to make of it. It was such a, it was such a car crash of a game, if we wanna just delve into the game. I mean, that's, that's what I have to say overall sort of about the series. Like, I'm really not celebrating anyone's demise here, but at the end of the day, like, that game, I don't even know really what to make of it, Matt. Like, it was so fucking weird to watch. Like, it was like s- it was like watching a building collapse when it, when there wasn't a planned demolition, you know? You know, it's so weird how different it feels than the Patriots' 28 to three comeback. It feels nothing like that. It feels like, like you, you beat this team. They were done. Everyone was done watching. It looked like the Knicks were done playing, and then at halftime it looked like they just stayed steady and came back. But you, you hit the nail on the head on a couple of things here. First of all, people calling Madison Square Garden the mecca of basketball is hilarious. If anything, wouldn't the Spurs' home court be more of the mecca of basketball because they've dominated the game so frequently? I think a lot of, I think a lot of great basketball players have been from New York City. Okay. So- We've got Ewing? No, no, no, no. Yeah. I mean from New York City. I mean- Oh, from New York. Okay, fine I don't mean great Knicks. I mean, I'm- But not playing in- Sure. I mean, I, I, I think that more adds to... I was just explaining this to somebody because I had the game on at work, and they were like, "Why are people kind of collectively rooting for the Knicks?" And I, uh, one of the points I made was I, I think, in theory, a lot, uh, the City of New York has pr- produced not only a lot of great basketball players, not Knicks necessarily, but a lot of great basketball players, Rucker Park, you know, basketball culture, but also produced a lot of great basketball culture. Like, uh, you know, Spike Lee has sort of e- has sort of embodied this in, in film. Uh, uh, rappers, hip hop artists from New York talk about basketball as part of hip hop culture. Like, this is a thing, right? East Coast basketball is a style of basketball. There's, there is something to be said about the City of New- of New York and basketball. We're not just gonna pretend that they're not a basketball city just because the Knicks aren't a good representation of them on the professional level, right? Sure. Like, surely. Like, we, we have to just be more, like, uh, s- culturally sensitive than that. Culturally sensitive to these animals? Are you kidding me? Look what they do. They feel... You know what the funny thing is? When OKC wins their title, they're, y- you look at their fans and you're like, "Oh, that's cute. Look at how happy they are." New York doesn't- They don't, they don't have a lot else going on. Right. Exactly. And New York feels entitled to championships, so that's why they're out there stripping people of their Spurs jerseys, not shaking hands. That's gross. It's disgusting. It's, it, we, it's crazy. And I think a lot of the country is rooting for, I think... Well, there's a lot of key hubs in the country there rooting for the Knicks here, uh, because the Spurs have beat them so many times in the playoffs and in the finals. Right. Because the Spurs are essentially the pla- the Patriots here for the last 30 years, are they not? You know what? We're, we're, I think we have a, as Boston fans, I've always been able to just sort of talk to and relate to Spurs fans because m- I haven't seen nearly as much success from my team, but, uh, my team wasn't good when p- the Popovich Spurs got good, so I don't have any resentment built up against them. I enjoyed watching Tim Duncan play basketball. Like- Right. Exactly uh, you know, it was, it was- Tim Duncan- Yeah and Tony Parker Yeah and it was an amazing thing to watch. Yeah. Like, the whole sort of like... I mean, it's ironic because it's like, you know, the, these, uh, the, the second round guys that Popovich made good, right? It's like there, there's guys that, uh, uh, that you now see in, in, represented in Jalen Brunson. It's like these second round guys that Popovich w- uh, brought up through that system and made good because it was all system. It was like if you got a player, they were the Patriots, you know? Like, it was the, there was the Spurs way. Like, if you got a player from them, he was probably gonna be really good, maybe even better on your team or, uh, because, you know, he came up under Gregg Popovich and the Spurs. It's so un-Spurs-like that, that collapsed. Like, it really isn't something that I've, I would ever see them, not a way I would see them lose. It's on Popovich. Th- this is not Pop's team really. I mean, he's not, he's not the coach of this team. I know he's got a hand in the mix but these are all kids. No, I, no, I mean, I agree. I agree. So if I can just say, it, you know, uh, I love our, I love our podcast brothers. I love them, but I got kind of shamed at one point for saying Wemby is not the scariest finals player in the league. I said that players that have been there before are much scarier, like LeBron, like Steph, because they've stood under those lights. And I think what we saw in the second half was Wemby disappeared. He went ghost. He, I think he missed, like, eight shots in a row How do you lose a 24-point lead? Well, he should have been jacking up fucking threes. I don't, like it's- Exactly there's a, there's an epidemic. Maybe stop shooting the ball with 13 seconds left on the shot clock when you're up by 29 points. But so I'm, I forgive Mike and Zach. I'm not gonna hold it against them, but clearly I was right. Seems fair. Seems like a fair take.

Knicks Fans And The Mecca Myth

10:40

I am a little bit worried about the state of modern basketball i- in that sense though, because the Celtics did the same shit, you know. Like this, this over-reliance on the three because they think they can, and then they just fall into this trap of like continually shooting that, that bad shot. I, I mean, I think they had like 50... What did they have? 30 points in the second half, like total? Yep. That's so bad, man. Awful. You, I, I, I, I'm so puzzled when I watch teams that can't adjust, you know. Especially when they're s- as good as this team, you know? Like, the coach needed to like... I, I was honestly calling out for Kelly Olynyk. I was like, "Throw Kelly Olynyk in there and just st- sort of like st- start to stop the bleeding." Like throw different looks- Hold the ball yeah, throw different looks at them. And s- like right around that 11-point lead, I was like, "Throw different looks at them, and we'll, you know, and make sure that like they don't have the ability to recognize tape on you." You know? Like, just to start to throw different shit at them because you're so up, you can experiment, you know? Like, you're up fucking 29, you can just start throwing shit at the wall. Another thing is, I gotta say, I mean, I know hindsight's 20/20, but I really had a feeling about this. I know they were going for the kill by leaving Wemby out there- Yep in the third quarter, but man, what an opportunity to rest him that was. Because I really would've said to that Spurs team, "If you guys can't win with a 30-point lead without Wemby, you don't deserve to win the game. Wemby's not coming back in." Imagine they, that he did that. I mean, I know that sounds crazy in the moment- No right? But it's like- No, it doesn't sound crazy he's like, he's like, "It's, we're up 29, dude. He's not coming back in. Go win the fucking game. I need him healthy. The star's sitting, I don't fucking care. Maybe he gets a couple of minutes to stay warm in the third. At the end of the third I might give him three or four minutes just to like, you know, whatever. But don't worry about it." You can actually let... I would, just to get in their heads, I'd be like, "You can let the lead go down to 20." Yeah. "It's really not a big deal." Yeah. "It's really not a big deal. They're, they're gonna go on a run. They're gonna go on a run. It's a game of runs. They're gonna go on a run, and you don't have to worry. Once they go on a run, you don't have to worry because you're, you're still up 20. And then you're just gonna start to get to your spots, and you're gonna start to run plays, and you're gonna start to set picks for each other, and you're gonna start to, and you're gonna keep talking to each other, and you're gonna pass the ball. Because you can win with a 29-point lead if you don't lose," right? And that's why I know for a fact the Spurs are the ones that pissed that fucking game up a wall, because you can't, you can't lose- But be- by the universe, you know? All you have to do is nothing and you win that game at that point. Hold the ball. It, it, do less. Do less. Now, I, I do have a bone to pick you, with you on that front. You were, you seemed very sure that De'Aaron Fox got fouled

Three-Point Addiction And Coaching Adjustments

13:20

and he didn't necessarily do the wrong thing. I think the wider, uh, the, the hindsight on that has, has turned to agree with me. So let me explain myself. And let me explain for the fans. Me and Dave were the only two people awake watching this game as intently as we were, so when the fo- when the shot came out, I didn't disagree with Dave because Dave went on a rampage about how it was the dumbest move he's ever seen. Immediately. I agreed. I do agree with that. It was the reverse JR Smith. It was crazy. But my point was, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna agree with you here, my point was it was clearly a foul. There was clearly body by contact altogether. But your point is correct, that even going for the shot makes no sense. It doesn't. Just- It makes no sense just hold the ball, get fouled, get two free throws, and then call it a day. I guess I'm gonna have to let you talk at some point about Victor Wembanyama wi- missing those two free throws, because you were all over him last time we were on the show about how LeBron would've missed that shot, that, that, I think it was, it was in game one or game two. Yep. Like, you know, where it was like, "Come on, man, you had a chance to win the game if you're gonna be the best player." I will reiterate he is a kid, but please- He's, he was a tired boy speak for a little bit. Speak for a lit- well, I would, I, that would be my rebuttal. But speak for a little bit- Well, it- on missing those free throws and what, what do you, what you think it means for him in the wider context of his legacy, I guess, if we're really already talking about that, but also, like, even the series. Like, can he get his, can he get up and put his pants on again? Dude, I, I think it speaks for itself. When he gets tired, that miraculous shot that we can't believe he has seems to fade. We saw it in game one. He was hitting literally the side of the backboard, like three feet up it. It, it, when he's exhausted, his shooting takes a beating. I don't think he should be faulted for the fact that he's struggling at the end of games. What should happen is the coaching staff should wake up and see that you have a window here to get defensively strong players, possession players into a game that are gonna hold the ball and stretch it, the UCLA method that just extend the game, burn the clock, and keep going. But no, what do you do? You burn the kid who is literally healthy, a freak of nature, who has had, uh, uh, stamina problems in, early in his career and put him out there on, what, 40-plus minutes against a team that's rolling. And you know what? I just wanna Here's my, to defend myself a little bit, I do give the Knicks a lot of credit because coming out of that locker room down 29-nothing and not giving up, man, that's heart that you just don't see all the time. Jalen Brunson, Karl-Anthony Towns, they literally kept this team together and pushed them forward, and that's my point. Playing under those bright lights matters. Being there before matters. Being in this league and seeing the, the chaos that occurs matters, even if it is a soft league where now even touching another player is a foul. And you know what? The Inki- So stick to my point. Jalen Brunson and KAT deserve all the credit in the world because them keeping the team together and not letting the bleeding scare them or discourage them or start saying, "You know, oh, we've got another game coming up. We're good. We still can win this series. It's not a big deal." The stick-to-it-iveness was so impressive. You know, I, I, I can't say that it was just the Spurs because a lot of other people would give up there. Most other people would give up there. I understand NBA players are built different. I understand that they're pro athletes and they've dealt with this before, but watching them just keep marching forward, knowing that the job's not done, knowing that they didn't hear a final buzzer yet was very impressive Pause That's all you had in you, huh? Dude, that's all I had in me. I was starting to panic. I got so nervous. I'm sorry. I do a whole show on Saturdays. I feel like I'm rambling. It's, it's, uh, it's intense. No, the pressure's on. Sorry, the key grip called me. I won't... I can't let him use any of his shit at this, uh, studio that we're going to, and he's like, "I can't use anything?" And I'm like, "Nah, dude, we gotta

Key Grip Call And Set Logistics

17:40

go through them. I'm sorry." Thankfully, I have a working relationship with this guy, and I've honestly, I've fucking lined his pockets over the last six months. He has made a lot of money on these jobs. It's like, "Give me one. You gotta give me one back." I feel like most of your fights are with grips. Not with Dave Riggio. I love that guy. He, he's a really nice guy. If you had've heard that conversation, you would've heard a real earnestness and a- and apologetic nature in my voice where I would've... I was like, "Dude, I know. I'm so sorry." But thank you. You did look geared up. You looked very, like- Yeah, well, 'cause I'm taking fucking 10 grand out of this guy's pocket, you know? And he's like s- It sucks he's coming into fucking... Yeah, it's, it blows, but it's just like, it's just the way this job is, you know? It's, I c- I have, I have a fiduciary responsibility to the bottom line- Yep unfortunately. Like, it's just- No, hey, listen, man part of my job. We, we deal with that all the time. The way that, that gift-giving works is sometimes you need one. Yeah, I gotta get... This is just one for me, and I'm sorry about that. It is what it is. Yeah. Um, and he was like, "Well, I gotta tell the DP," you know? And this is, this felt like a moment where I felt good at my job. He was like, "I gotta tell the DP, like, if he's looking for something," and I don't... I have my truck pretty customized for him, you know, and I can't bring it. He's like, "If he's looking for something and I don't have it, I don't want him to get fucking pissed off at me." And I was like, "Dude, I told him. I literally told him before I even told you guys where we were going." I was like, "Just so you know, the crew's gonna be hamstrung by the c- the equipment rules at this place we're going to." And he was like, "Okay, I understand." I was like, "You should reiterate it with him. It's your boss. Like, you're his crew. He has right of first refusal on him." Right. "He hires you," right? I was like, "But I have to tell you, I called him and I told him exactly that. So, like, I was, I got ahead of that as a concept, but you should also say it because we're all gonna need to be singing from the same hymn sheet on that one w- come Tuesday, you know?" So it blows, but it is what it is, you know what I mean? It is what it is. Good job. Um, but it, it's like, I'm paying you, you know? Y- y- your, your, your, your- L- listen day rate, you know? It's like you're getting paid to be a grip. If it costs you money now- Yeah sometimes you gotta pay money to make money. It happens. He knows he works with you. He keeps going. You're gonna take care of him. And now you take care of him even more. You gave him one. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I do owe him one on this one. It's just the way it is. That is honestly the, the actual kind of philosophy. You, you nailed it. Dude, it happens to us all the time. Yeah. It's like it's... We gotta just work together. We just gotta talk. Yep. If we can just get on the phone and talk, I, like... And the, the thing is, the reason I even, I just had to stop right there is he called me and I missed the call, and I had this thought in my head as we were recording the podcast. I was like, "I've never missed a call from him." Yep. I hear you. I always pick up to the key grip. I always go like, "Hey, man, what's up? I'm here. I'm..." You know, and I was like, "Now, on the day I'm giving him bad news, I'm not talking to him." I'm like, "I can't do that." Oh, that would piss you off so bad. I have to, I have to call him back, you know? You'd be like, "Oh, it's, oh, it's like that now? All right." Yeah. Anyway, what was the last thing you said about basketball? I have no fucking

Series Momentum Parity And Marking Time

20:20

idea. I was, I was complimenting the Knicks. I was saying the reason I feel like it, they deserve credit too is because coming out of that locker room beaten like that or losing like that and not giving up or not considering the fact you have the next game is so impressive. And watching them just steadily, not panic, not unnerve, steady- steadily go forward and keep doing their job and keep playing their game and not panic was wildly impressive. Yeah. But it's people like Jalen, uh, Jalen and Kat that lead them to do that. Without those guys, you're the Spurs. You're a young baby team that can't figure it out. It's interesting because, like, I was thinking about the last basketball. I know I get why you thought about 28 to 3. I thought about, uh, the Bears coming back against the Packers 21 to 3. Um, I think about that all the time when I'm rubbing one out anyway, but I thought about it in the context of this game, too. Um, I think the last basketball comeback is more of a comp. Uh, the last kind of finals comeback that we saw was the '08 Celtics coming back against the Lakers. And I, I think it's, to me it was a little bit different because I thought what that was in the context of the Celtics and the Lakers was, like, two runs and opportunistic three-point making down the stretch from guys that, like, could have hit or could have missed, right? So I appreciate them doing what they did in that game, and I do think that we had a little bit of a perfect storm emerge where it was like, okay, great, like, we have We have generational talents on our team. They do too, but they can still get a little quicksand-y when guys at the caliber of the Celtics, like, start to hit. Then there's the context of the series. The, the beauty of the seven-game series is it's like who on the team can s- can, can avoid the intrusive thought that is, well, we can lose this one. Like, it's fine. We only need to take one at home. Like, the management of the seven-game series can be such a slippery slope, right? And it's just gotta be, like, zero-zero in your head at all times, which I respected Brunson saying that going into this last game, which I- Right spoiler alert, I think is the last game of the series. And I, and I think it's because as m- like, the Spurs showed us at, they, they th- if you look at it in the context of a boxing match, which is obviously a tired cliche, it, th- that was two heavyweights swinging at each other, and the Spurs got clipped, man. Like, they just got clipped in that, in that one. Like, that was a hit I don't think they're getting back up from. That's not Tyson Fury coming back from the dead un- Undertaker style. He- Nope like, I- No, you know what it is? I think the fight's over It's, it's Foreman and, and Ali. Yeah That's what it is. It's Foreman and Muhammad Ali. That, it, that's, I felt, it felt a little bit like that, although I, I shudder to give the Knicks Muhammad Ali status, but sure. Not to overextend the metaphor or anything, but yeah, the, the bigger, the bigger, stronger favorite getting punched and put down in the way that you thought they were gonna do it to the other team is, is pretty crazy. Because the, I think the thing that I couldn't get out of my head was, like, I was fully ready for the, for the series comeback from the Spurs. Like, nobody was writing the s- series off, even though they lost two home games. Like, 2-0, recoverable. Like, more than recoverable, especially from two teams that we consider, like, uh, as much of a dearth in their talent, uh, e- as, as this matchup was. So for me, I was like, well, it's gonna be 2-2, and then we'll see, right? Like, I, I really thought that going in. I was like 2-2, and then we'll see who's got what, right? And honestly, I think if it was, if it became 2-2, the series favored the Spurs at th- at that point. Now I think it's almost guaranteed to be the Knicks. And not because it's 3-1. Outside of that context, I, I d- I think in a different journey to get here, the Spurs could make a 3-1 comeback against the Knicks. I think they're talented enough, genuinely, and we've seen it happen before. But I, I would, I would've made all these arguments about how, like, the Knicks are tired too now, and you know, like I would, I would've had all these loaded up. But now I just don't know how you find what it would take to mount a three-way, to win three games in a row against this New York Knicks team. I, I really don't. No. No. I, I just can't see it happening in my head anymore. Everyone that watch, watches sports knows, especially in the playoff and final situations, there is this force going through every arena and every game. And when it gets too overwhelming, when that- The vibes force of a team, it's vibes, and we're vibes guys. The vibes are, the vibes are dead. And the vibes are over here. I mean, don't get me wrong, I think in a vacuum that, yeah, the, the Spurs have the talent to win three in a row and take this Record-breaking teams rarely ever cough it up. They're riding high, they're not tired. The Knicks are not tired. The Knicks are ready to go. They're ready to show everyone who they are, just like the Celtics were. I think it's nine years in a row that it's a different team winning the championship if the Knicks win, which I think is a generationally good level of parity for a major sports, uh, I, like any major sport, I guess, in the world, like any, any professional sport. Because it's parity is what every league claims they want, and now I'm not entirely sure that that is what they want. Because I, I don't, I think, I think fans claim that parity is something they want, but I think I might like seeing greatness. Like I, I think I might like seeing- We like it in our own ability like generational streaks of teams. Like I, I don't know. I think that it's so much easier to mark the time in my life, as you know, I live in Los Angeles. I- there's no seasons here. I can't mark time moving. It's very disorientating. It's, it's, and I also smoke a lot of weed, and I do a lot of drugs. So I- Aw, poor you. It's... No, no, not poor me, it's just I, I live a, quite a bewildering existence. Like I sort of- That's true teeter and totter down the road of life in a, in an affable and charming, but q- quite befuddled way, man. And so when, and as I, as I sort of, uh, march merrily through my existence, I, I, it's difficult for me without the winter, the generational winters that I've experienced, to mark my year, you understand? So what I really used to love was seeing long periods of great teams play, because I could really put myself in that time in my life, because o- see, uh, different generational Patriots dynasties are different representations of periods of my life, right? The, the, um, the, the Celtics being good since getting Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum, that's, that's a period of my life. The, the Golden State Warriors becoming who they were and watching the Splash brodge- brothers emerge is like representative of when I first moved to LA, right? This is, this is all stuff, you know, the Jürgen Klopp era, like it was very like when I started really truly courting my, my bride-to-be, uh, up until now, and, and here we are in our pantaloons, you know? Humming and hawing from our old rocking chairs, Matt. So, uh, here I am trying to mark time, and I wanna see greatness. I wanted to see the kickoff of the Spurs dynasty. That's what I fucking wanted, right? And I didn't get it Well, I thi- I think we all do. I think everyone in the nation kind of wanted to see the end of the OKC threat, and people just, I, a lot of people- We felt great about that. Everybody felt great about that coming out of the West. We were really worried. For sure. Collectively really worried. It was straight up horror moose level worried about the O- Oklahoma City Thunder. Like, I, I had the Oklahoma City Thunder might be a dynasty for the next five years and basketball is ruined as one of my top worries which is- Yeah, for sure I'm, I'm coming from a place of privilege I guess. But it was a very top of the, of the mind of the list worry for me. Well- I have to say but think about how robbed we would be. Like, hold on, it wasn't Harden and Brodie and KD, it was SGA falling on the ground. Yeah, that's bullshit. That's not, no way was that- And, well, it's also, it's also bullshit because, like, I kept, s- and on this show too, I kept banging the drum of If you put Harden and Durant and Kyrie together, like they'll fuck you up. Like, 'cause I watched the Clippers- We all did right? Like I was like the- we're- like I thought the Brooklyn Nets were gonna fucking absolutely tomahawk all of us. I really thought that that was gonna happen. I was like, "This is payback for that fleece. We didn't, we didn't capitalize on it on time. They're coming for us." And then it was like, no, no, no, these motherfuckers are toxic girls. They're never gonna be able to win a championship. Literally. They don't have the- Literally they don't have the fucking stuff, you know? Um, and all credit to OKC for winning the championship that they did, to be honest, but it's b- it's gonna be remembered very, very much alongside the Celtics championship as one people collectively don't care about. Well, I think it's gonna be remembered for what it is, and that's the softest version of the NBA, that shoot around friendly, nobody touch anybody. But look at the Knicks and the Spurs. I mean, Spurs losing, yeah, but like the credit to them, they've been gritty as fuck. They've been wicked gritty, man. They, and the, the refs are letting them bang around. Yeah, but also- It's been much more physical we're trying to retrain. This is the thing, we're retraining a whole generation of new basketball fans because a lot of people just got here, and they're like, "Foul, foul." And I'm like, "You sound stupid. That's not a foul." It- when everybody was trying to get Wemby shoving Jalen Brunson as a foul, I'm like, "Guys, I'm sorry. We already decided this. We decided on this rule when giant freakish seven-foot plus motherfuckers entered the chat, when we were all knocking around in our, in our baby diapers. You don't get to whistle size differences." Nope. You don't get to whistle size differences. Nope. I agree that how Wemby shoved Brunson was a foul. Yes. I also

Let Them Play Refereeing In Context

29:50

think that Wemby was taking a foul to let Brunson know that he should not try to back him down because he will sh- throw him to the ground. Exactly. And I think that like- Just go- Charles Barkley said it really well. He was like, "That's get off me, dude." He's like, "I'm fucking- This is the finals way bigger than you." Like, don't You can't come up in here and not expect to get fucking wrecked. I'm sorry, that's just how it has to work. It, the one thing football has always been beautifully good at in, uh, almost to a fault because T- uh, Tua Tagovailoa, Tagliab- Tag- I can never do it. Tua's brain is l- um, leaking out of his ears and, you know, another great soldier and the sacrifice for my personal entertainment on a Sunday when I'm, uh, you know, two and a half beers deep and feeling a little full already. And, and, and t- credit to him, but those, they've always been gladi- gladiatorial in the NFL. They've always been like, "If you wanna be here, we're gonna pay you a lot of money. Even though, even the poorest guy, while he's here, he's gonna make a lot of money. He's gonna be really well paid." And while that's happening I think you need to understand that, like, there's gonna be some harm along the way. And I know basketball's not that, but guys, w- we really need to be thankful for these teams for playing the shit out of each other. Like, the Spurs gritted the Thunder off the court, and all it took- Literally was the refs to swallow their whistle for one or two games, which is what they're supposed to do in a seven-game series when you're, when it's the Western Conference finals or the finals. That's what they're supposed to do. Well, you know what's so funny? I felt like the Spurs actually intimidated the Knicks from the last game to this game that we just watched. Literally, there was an intimidation factor. Like, Wembanyama was trying to intimidate other players. They were really ragging on, uh, on, uh, Brunson. Like, putting, like, hands on him. They got cap for one game. They got in his head for one game, and honestly- They- that's not a bad strategy. I wou- I would've agreed with it. Right, and you know what? God bless these refs for letting it happen, 'cause it looked for a second like basketball I like to watch. And you know what? To defend your, your original point, which I still agree with you, that De'Aaron Fox foul with, what, seven seconds left in the g- with a minute left in the fin- in, uh, a game in the finals, that foul that he, when he went for that layup, that's not enough to call. It should be harder than that. Y- sometimes the game is bigger than that moment, so making contact with your chest on somebody's back as a gather The finals call for something different. This is not, you know, the beginning of the season. This is it. So go up there and make your shot Unless you hit somebody with a hatchet, I'm not whistling anything in the last 10 seconds of the fucking, of a game like that. It's the only time I, like, allow refereeing in context. Like, I really don't like context refereeing. Like, I'll give you a great example. Me either. The, the World, the World Cup is on right now, and I, I've really had this thesis for years so you've heard me say this a million times, but for the listeners. The, the World Cup is on right now, and the best example of context re- refereeing I can always give is if you see somebody on a yellow card, and they've got a yellow card for a, for a fair yellow card challenge. If they make another yellow card challenge that if they didn't have a yellow card would definitely get them a yellow card, and the referee goes, "But not enough for a red," that's context refereeing. Yep. Because it's not a red. It's the second time they got a yellow, and that's the fucking rule. Now listen, I'm not, I'm not a hall monitor, okay? I'm not. But it's frustrating when a yellow card is actually a difficult thing to play on. Great players get one early and then have great games. You know? Are disciplined, are good, right? Wemby actually showed me a lot of that, I really have to say. I think since the elbow, I think he's showed me a lot of gamesmanship. Yep. In a sense that I think he's gonna be really, really, really annoying to play against for the next decade. Like, I really do. I know, it's like our- When he figures it out, yeah. When he figures out his body type- He figures it out. He's figured it out. He's figured it out. Yeah. He's figured it out. He has. He's clearly not. You mean the fatigue? Is that what you're talking about? No, I think, I don't think he's figured out how to play the game when he is gassed, when he, when he is deep in his depths. I think it just takes time for, oh, some players, and I think where he's coming from is a big part of that for him. What do you mean? I think, I think when he's learning to adapt to this league, and God bless Chris Paul for, you know, putting him in a position to understand a lot that he might not have about how the NBA flows and how it moves forward. But when he's tired, you can't shrink like that. You have to find something that, that gets you going. And we've seen him do it before where he's motivated, but in this series, man, that was crazy, man. Missing those free throws? That's fucking crazy. You can't be the WemVP and miss those. My MVP's cool. Thank you. Trademark. In- trademark Matt Wilcox Missing the Point 2026. Um- I'm a lawyer, so that counts. I thank you for the lovely chat about the MA finals. That was a crazy game. Um, I just wanna talk about one thing before that, and it's something that kind of popped into my head that I wanted to bring up later once we finished talking about basketball, when we were talking about the vibes being, like leaving the room. You and I, when we were coming up together as young rapscallions, used to pinpoint a quality that we had when we were, I'd say it was like probably sophomore year of high school onward, where we were always great at leaving the party right before the cops got there. Like, we would always be like, "Vibes off. Let's go." And then we would hear- Knowing when it's time to cut and run. Yeah. We would hear. And then 'cause also, to be fair, we would have as much fun in the car on the way from the party to wherever we were going, listening to music, having a great time as we were having at the party, right? Of course. So it was like, "Let's go." Like, "Let's, let's, let's take back the night." Having set you up in that context, I am so curious to hear your opinion. And I'm, I didn't prepare you for this and, and we are raw dogging this, but I know you

Conor McGregor And Losing Your Heroes

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can do it. On the imminent Less than one month away, return of Conor McGregor, because I have to tell you, just as, like, a little spoiler, I c- I'm not getting hard for this one. But I do... I will watch it because I wanna bookend it. You know, I wanna bookend it poetically and appropriately. The poet, the poet, as Werner Herzog once said, "The poet should not and cannot look away." Okay? So in order to really put this in context in my life, I wanna see the end of it. But I, it, it's difficult for me to not be cynical, Matt, because he... I think he either doesn't make the walk, or he goes in there and it's a little embarrassing, and I'm not even sure I'd wanna see him win after really discovering who he is as a person. So, I, I mean, w- you know, we, we watched him together the whole time. What, what's, what's your, what are your thoughts? So I want, I wanna give a little bit of context to the people listening that aren't aware, but me and Dave, uh, both didn't love MMA when it first became semi-popular. W- it was still fledgling. It was not, it's not what it was now. It was, it was still hard to get ahold of, hard to watch. It was the pre-Ronda Rousey and pre-Conor McGregor MMA, and we really got engulfed with Conor McGregor because anybody that watched at that time knows that in combat sports, in really any sports, his showmanship and his abilities were something to behold. And my devotion to Conor McGregor, Dave's national love and pride- I loved him. I really did love him. I absolutely- Yeah I thought, I w- I thought he was the best thing since fucking sliced bread. And Ireland's a small country. It's a small island, and it's, it's taken its fair share of, of bullshit from the world, from England, from... A lot of horrible things have happened to Ireland. Conor McGregor, when he was just being the most outrageously funny and talented fighter, was a big deal. What he's become now and where we went here is, first of all, it's embarrassing. Uh, it's, it... To defend him against my Muslim friends, uh, in the face of the things that he had said about Khabib was hard, and I knew that I was fighting- Wait, what did he actually say about Muslims, though? Call... He, he... Calling his wife a towel because she was wearing a niqab or, like, a formal covering during their wedding, uh, uh, knowing that he was offering him drinks, uh, calling him a backwards, uh, what, a backwards cunt. Um- Hang on a second. Can I just say nothing has been, like, overtly horrific in this so far? Like, I- No, no. I'm getting there. I'm getting there. Oh, I'm getting there. The, the, the assault on the bus- I think the rapes are worse. I just think the rapes are worse. I'm getting there. I'm just going in line. The assaults on the b... When he assaulted all those people on the bus when Artem had gotten allegedly accosted by Khabib's team, the punching of the old man in the bar, the, the- No, no. I mean, now you're, but now you're going in a different direction. I agree with all that stuff. I mean, I think all that stuff is the stuff that- Let me get it all out. Let's get it all out because there's only, like, two more things. The taking up a presidency of a nation that has always, always defended those that need help, and doing it in a way that is racist and nationalistic and defensive of something that doesn't require defense. And then finally- Yeah, that's a good point the conviction of his finding of sexually assaulting a woman, um, when we've seen him be s- kind of unrepentant Civil conviction. I just wanna ma- I just wanna make it clear, right? And I, and I'm only saying this- It's not a conviction but I, I think he's raped that girl, and I think he's a rapist and a piece of shit. But I wanna, I wanna point something out because I, this is the internet discourse I see all the time, and I just wanna say from someone who, I promise you I loved him more than you, if you're still defending him, because you're a fool, and I'm not, and I loved him more than you because I have the capacity to love more, uh, because of my intellect. And I have to tell you, yes, civil conviction. When you start to make that argument, "Oh, it wasn't this, it wasn't that," I have now the opportunity to explain to everybody with my lawyer friend on the podcast what that actually means. Because if you get, in my opinion, Matt, correct me if I'm wrong, if you get convicted of rape in a civil suit where she didn't take the fucking plea deal Are you a rapist? Well, so it was a civil matter. It w- a, a civil matter is a money matter. Criminal stuff is where the government accuses you of a crime- What about the burden of proof? Well, so here-

Civil Vs Criminal Proof Explained

40:05

What about... It's, it's, it's so much more difficult to prove rape in a, in a, in a criminal case, right? Am I not wrong about that? And I'm not gonna speak to Ireland's standards, 'cause I do believe they have a different, uh, way about proving guilt or innocence. But in, um, in Massachusetts, and- We whack, we whack them on the ass with a shillelagh, and if it turns red really fast, they did it. You take, you take their, their Lucky Charms and their potatoes away, and you make them- No, no eat, eat beef. You went too low. You went too low, bro. Sorry, I apologize. It's not, it's, it's- No, so- Yeah, you gotta do better than that so the burden of proof is different, is different. In civil cases here, the, for a civil case, which is a money case, a tortious case where somebody, they broke the law, but they didn't commit a crime necessarily, um, the burden of proof is preponderance of the evidence, saying that based on your view of the whole case, do you feel more than a 70%, 70 to 75% chance that this person who's accused did the wrong thing here that caused the harm to the other person? Yeah. In a criminal case, it's proof beyond a reasonable doubt, which is have you arrived to a moral certainty that the person has committed the act that the government has accused them of? I'm, I'm glad that we differentiate, to be honest, for the most part. Good. But I think- It's important I think that that means in a case every... Explain it to me if I'm wrong, but does, as a layman, my interpretation of that is different crimes are more difficult to prove than other crimes beyond a reasonable doubt. For sure. Is that, is that not why, why we have civil ca- civil situations in- No in the fucking first place? The reason we have civil cases is because one of them is the government's trying to put you in a, in a cage for violating the rules that we have set forth. So it's the difference between, between committing a crime and doing harm. It's money. Money, mainly. But it's doing, but it is doing harm. You're, you're essentially saying i- in a legal sense, we are deciding as a jury of your peers that you've done this person harm. For sure. It's doing harm, but the way, the easier way to, to think about it is you've caused a loss to somebody else, a loss of, of money and other- So if you lose a rape case under the guise of that logic, you can't lionize and celebrate an athlete that even if you really liked him at, in his heyday f- at, at all anymore. Because what, what, what he essentially decided, and it's a, it's a pattern. It's a pattern of, of behavior born from, honest to God- becoming the guy he said he was. And I think there is a power to that, right? Because I don't know about you, but, and I, and I'm quite happy that it happened for me this way, to be honest, but becoming the guy who I am took a few humblings along the way. It took a few setbacks. It took a few, m- you know, observations about what you don't really- How things don't work to figure out how things do. Yeah, how things... Yeah, exactly. And, and, and, and r- learning real lessons and gaining real wisdom as opposed to sort of like practicing theory, which is what you do when you're a kid. And I think He was in his 20s and he said, "I think I can fuck everybody up," and he did. And he just didn't quite have enough about him to not let that make him a piece of shit. Or he was a piece of shit, which is... This is more likely. He was a piece of shit, and that ability to knock people unconscious and be quite entertaining while doing it amplified that to the nth degree. Well, I mean- And the irony being that, like, when Khabib sort of took his soul... I mean, this is, this is actually hard for me too, because it's like- Sh- As a combat sports athlete, I actually think he did pretty good in that fight comparatively to s- considering the sc- the styles, you know? Like, I, I don't... I think everything that he was made it so he could never really have beaten that guy unless he like really fucked him up. Right. He was supposed to lose that fight in the first round. Yeah, and it's just... I, I don't know. I think there was something about- He won the second. Yeah, he did, and it was like it was weird, you know? Like, I kinda wanted to see them fight three times, but instead he went and fought... Or, you know, instead he, he, he fucking just went off the ra- uh, rails completely, you know? Like, I, I, I... There's no way I can convince myself- So- that he's not a piece of shit if he doesn't go fight Floyd Mayweather, stays around MMA. Like, uh, it's a, it's a great pipe dream, but it's like, nah, he's a piece of shit. He was always gonna be a piece of shit. Well, I don't... Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever know. And I think you kind of were alluding to a part of the, the, the, the, the human experience of, of making too much money and, and taking yourself, uh, off of the, the plane of humanity. Where people sometimes make so much money that they stop thinking of themselves as regular mortals, and they start to, uh, absentiate themselves or, or rise themselves up to the level of demi-gods and- Yeah it, it, it's completely true And that culture just supports that. The culture supports that completely. But how do you tell him no? He's got the first Lamborghini yacht. He's made this much money. He lost that Khabib fight really well. He made, what, $50 million on the fight? So did he lose it for real? 'Cause what a payday for a loss, you know what I mean? Is... What's the point of his, of his career? I would feel, I would f- the, the thing is this is both what made it so, I mean, among other reasons, but made it so I would never reach the heights of an elite athlete, because they have to be kind of serial killers. But also I, I would be so fine, like if I... Like, I think it probably really hurts him that he lost that fight. I think it probably really hurts him that he, like, you know, his l- where his legacy sort of, sort of spanned out or whatever. But- I, that's the reason why I never would've, I never would've done anything after- Well- this or this or this or this. It's like I wa- I'm, I'm happy with like, uh, uh, the, with so much prior to where he's fighting Khabib. Like, I'm not getting in a fucking cage with a mad Russian after I made $150 million fucking having a little sparring cap off session with fucking Floyd Mayweather at 40-something. Right. It's mad, like. Well, but we're not- I would be so done. You'd never hear from me again. Right. Right. But we're rational people that have experienced life for what it is. He is a killer. He's a warrior. He's a UFC fighter. No, he's not. He is. He- He's not in, in his heyday he showed that. He will fight- He broke anybody, anytime. No, he's a front runner. No, man, he's a front runner. Let's be honest- No there, Suz. He was a fucking front runner. He broke- No. When did he ever decline a fight? when the going got tough every time. What? Before Khabib, before he was a billionaire, when did he ever de- decline a fight? He never did. He would fight anybody. He took replacements. He's a fucking piece of shit and a rapist, unfortunately. He took re- no, no, he is a piece of shit, but let me make this point. Let me... Here's the thing I think that his circumstances ruined his career. He didn't care about his legacy. That's why he took the Floyd fight. He didn't care about what happened next in his career, or at least he thought he didn't. That led to all of this. And, and I just have this earnest belief that money and power and control, uh, first of all, makes you not an effective, uh, UFC fighter because you kind of have to be a hungry dog. No, you should not be looking to MA- MMA sport athletes for your morality, but- Of course not I will- But you gotta draw a line somewhere he's repugnant, and I don't... Here's my ultimate thing. I don't wanna watch any old man fight. I'm not interested in watching an old man fight. His time is over. Whether it was when it should've been or if he made it artificial by, you know, going for the money fights, Floyd Mayweather and all the shit that happened after that, it's over, and I'm out. Yeah, I'm going to, like, a, um, ayahuasca retreat that weekend instead of watching the fight. I'm not gonna watch that fight. I've... or, but I booked my ticket already, and it cost like $300. I am gonna watch the, I'm gonna watch the fight. But I'll still- But I, I- just like this weekend I, I actually called ahead, and I was like, "So I'm, uh, when am I doing the, the healing drugs, and could I have Saturday night off?" And they were like, "It's actually every other night. So if you wanted to start on the Wednesday when you get there, you'd be off on Saturday." And I was like, "Oh, wonderful. Yeah, I will take that option. Thank you so much, Shaman PJ." And, um, that is the real name. It's gonna be great. He's no more hippo anymore, though. No, it's true. Um- It's too bad. I mean, I, you know, never, never, never... Don't have heroes. Don't... A- and the reason I say that is because, like, we're, me and Conor McGregor are almost exactly the same age. He's a year younger than me, born in the same month, right? A year older than me, born in the same month. And I think the, the thing that I saw in him was me, you know? I'm not anything like him, but I saw myself in him. You know, I don't have- You know, a smartass, a witty count, like Bernie count. I don't know But not, but, but not just a, just a fucking, you know, like he was just a fucking, a bit of a bastard from fucking Dublin, like a bit of a fucker, you know? From... And he was just trying to kind of be funny and do his thing. And there was a bit of, um, there was just a bit of charm about him, you know, when he first, when he first came around. And he just had a lot of wit- A bit of charm? Dave, he saved the UFC. They were gonna sell to Fox. He literally reinvigorated the sport. I know. He was the, it was the- It was the sa- it was the- And be happy that it happened. I know. We watched the greatest, the double champ, the greatest UFC fighter come through, beat everybody that they put him up against, and nobody knew where he was coming from or who he was. He was the first Irishman to do it, and then he turned into a piece of shit after he made hundreds of millions of dollars, like every other billionaire, you know? I, I, I don't mean to, like, wax philosophical about, like, my love of sport on my sports podcast here, but I have to say, like, it's not less enjoyment, it's just a different era, you know? Like, it, it... I- I'm starting to understand why our dads weren't necessarily cynical when we would talk to them about sports, but they were kind of matter of fact about it. You know, there was a bit of a like, "Yeah, but it's just this," and it's because you go through different eras and phases of your life and these, it, it, lived through these teams. It was sort of my point earlier about marking time. It's just something I've been thinking about a lot. And like, this guy letting me down, uh, I think that it's indicative of a wider truth that I need to grow up and sort of accept, which is you can't look outwards for your joy and your, and your heroes and your entertainment. And I know it's gonna sound really sentimental and silly, but I actually, I think the people that I look around and I see just sort of getting fucking on with it are, are much more heroic and much more gr- reach much higher points of greatness than, than Conor McGregor, you know? Well, they're happier. They're happier than us. They are. They are. There, there's just, there's something about, like, there's, like, it's like icon- like it, I, I'm, I don't necessarily relate to Conor McGregor- Are you- in that way, but it's like I chase things. I'm in, I'm in a constant mode of chase. Who are, who are my, you know, closest friends and confidants? People who chase, who leap, who look, you know? This is, this is a, a problem I've had my en- my entire life. It doesn't ma- and I'm not being arrogant here, but it doesn't matter. The accoutrements of success have not filled the hole you know? Like, not even a little bit, right? So- A different hole and so, uh, you know, I look at people that are just like, "This is fine," and I, and I, I'm jealous of them. I wanna emulate them, you know? Uh, those are the people now I look up to. Yep. Don't make your sports heroes or your a- your favorite actors your hero You're so right. He was so, such a disappointment. I felt like a boy. You know, I look at, I look at my nephew and I, I look at him just enjoying the shit out of the World Cup. Like, he's just loving it. Like, he's just having a great, like, laugh, like, look at it, and just loving different players and, like, loving it, just seeing a, a sports sort of journey evolve. Him coming over, watching the Bears, you know, like really s- and the Bears kind of being awesome right away for him. And I'm like, man, I, I, the, y- how can you let cynicism in on, in this regard just because Conor McGregor's a fucking rapist and a piece of shit? Yes, my, like, innocence and childhood died because these, these people let me down over the course of my life, but that's fine. Yep. That's how it is, you know? It, it, it- But it shaped you it's William Blake. It's the journey of innocence to experience. It is what it is. But I have to say, if you, if you're still advocating for a guy like Conor McGregor, it's just not a party I would want to be invited to at this point. No, yeah, and, and I'm not gonna- And honestly, I was too late to get out. I fully admit I was too late to get out, and I might even still sound like an apologist. We were way too late. We held on as long as we possibly could, and he, he literally... If somebody's gonna show you who they are, trust them. Yeah. He showed us. We eventually saw it. But I'm not gonna judge you if you are rooting for him. I don't think you should look for your morality in your combat sports players. I don't wanna root for anyone that can behave the way he does with the arrogance and the, and the ineptitude and the indifference that he does about- There's, but there's a li- there's a lie that you'd be telling yourself at this point, is, is the lie, actually. For sure. You know? And, like, that's the thing. Like, there was an authentic enjoyment in, in sports that isn't really sullied

UFC Politics Dana White And Exploitation

52:40

often. Like, what... Th- that's never gonna happen to me with Liverpool. You know what I mean? Like, I can just, like, hope that team is good. Uh, it's never gonna happen to me with the fucking Celtics. It's like, yeah, their identity might piss me off 'cause they shoot too many threes and they're a little soft, but, like, it's the Celtics. They're my team, right? Like, it's all good. It, it, they're never gonna be one person. You know? Like, the, the, making someone totemic in your life is not, it's not healthy. It's not good. Especially when they're- It's not a good idea especially where they're, they're combat sports players. Yeah, it's almost the worst idea to choose that. Yeah. Yeah I think too, there's a culture around MMA now, and I think it's moved to the right. I mean, obviously. You, you see this UFC 50 that's coming up. UFC 50. It's so embarrassing. Yeah. It's honestly so embarrassing. Like, it's m- it makes... We used to do banger podcasts about the UFC, and it's like I can't even really justify doing whole UFC, like, cards, fights. I'm gonna watch the fucking thing, but, like, it's just embarrassing now culturally to be, like, a fan of that sport. Yeah. I, I can't wait for our nation's capital to host, uh, a sporting event without a unionized defense, uh, forum for the, the fighters who are paid literal fractions of pennies from the revenue they create for the creationist. I, I... It's just the most American thing I've ever seen. It's the most capitalist thing I've ever seen. Uh, and I, I just- I think the workers should seize the means of production personally, and then maybe- Please. They support it. They're, they are so engulfed in this this-is-the-only-way-I-can-feed-myself mentality, that they are the ones that are like, "Oh, I'm not, oh, I'm not talking about that." Um, yeah, it's gr- I just, uh, I love UFC. I love MMA. I'm not watching this card. I'm not watching Conor's card. I'm gonna watch both, but I'm gonna steal them both because I'm a, I'm a pirate, and, uh, I won't support- I- things I don't want to support voluntarily I hate the fact, I hate the fact that, like, in the era where it's easier than ever to record and broadcast something, we can't get the product to just get together and walk over to the other side of the fence, you know, and do it themselves. What is the UFC? It's not anything. It's a, it's a series of binding contracts and stock portfolios bound together by, uh, uh, an, essentially a, a, an ethos to exploit the workers that, that work for them. And then, I mean, Conor McGregor was nothing if not a, you know, a, a, a... Look, look the proletariat. Look upon your one that has risen out of you. Look what you could be if you just put your mind to it. Don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain. Look, he's one of you. He's from the streets of Dublin. Look what he can be. You know, if you apply yourself, you can be this too. It's like Taylor Swift saying you should chase your dreams. No. Ugh. You're Taylor Swift. You chased your dreams- Dave and you won the fucking lottery. Dave, do you- You can't tell people to pay, play the fucking lottery. That's nuts. Uh, uh, I can't... What? The UFC just turned their back on Jon Bones Jones, who has made them more famous and more money and been more dominant than anybody else in the sports history. There's gonna be more of that. They turned their back on them because he was asking for half of what Conor got for his last fight, which he lost. Probably because he's Black. Say no more. Say no more I think Dana White's a fucking racist. I'm biased, Dave, but- The people he seems to hate the most are, uh, Francis Ngannou, like Jon Jones, like, you know? Like, I, I think he thought he was fucking, uh, um... What's, what's... Fucking Don King. You know? I really th- I think he sees himself as a, as a, a prognosticator of, of c- of that culture, like so- some sort of leading messianic figure. You know? I, I think the way he- He's the next Don King. Yeah. I, the, the way that he sees himself... But it's in a very, like, Paramount+ sort of way. Like, it's, it's, uh, I, they really ended up on the right network. It's in a very, like, y- "Oh, do you watch, uh, the newest Yellowstone spinoff?" Like, it's very that, you know? It's, uh, I'm just like, "Dude, get a fucking grip on yourself." Have, have you ever seen a more, like, telltale thing than, "Oh, I went for the money"? Than the UFC went from ESPN to Paramount for, what, $8 billion, $7 billion. It is literally just a money game for him. And now that they did that, he's no longer as interested in UFC. Now he's focusing on doing foot boxing, he's focusing on, uh, uh, Slap, whatever the Slap shit that he's doing is. Like- Is that still happening? Is that still a thing? Oh, man. He just said in the, in, uh, an interview a couple days ago, "We had 2 million views on one Slap fight." Like, shut the fuck... Who cares? I'll tell you what I would do, honestly. I would backyard it. If you... Thought experiment. If you kill Dana White and you make me Dana White tomorrow in all of the world, and you're, I immediately hire you as my most trusted advisor, and we have to, and we have to, like, remake this, right? I immediately restart with our own seed money Spike TV Spike TV is the new home of the UFC, and we own Spike TV. We get... When we do it, we do the, we do the grungy feedback guitars, we do the, the whole branding, but we own it, and it's just an app. It's just an app, and you, and you subscribe to the app. The UFC puts out fucking three to four fights a month. $399 a month, 100% profit to you, game over. Yeah. What are they doing? Platforms don't exist. You can create your own. I'm not gonna... I... But, like, you think about what you... A- and you know what? To all credit to that, to him, he's a monster, but finding Rampage and Rashad, finding, uh, Iceman, finding... You know, Ronda Rousey saved their lives, like literally saved their lives. He, he could have passed up on her very easily. Conor McGregor saved him. There were several times that he was gonna fail before he made it. What are you- Uh, so I will give that what are you saying? That, that- The reason- this, this is what happens. This happened to basketball. This happened to football. Like, this is what... This happened, this happens to every sport. There's, there's, there's lulls. Like, the face of the NBA conversation, the, the best player in the NBA for a minute was Shai Gilgeous-Alexander. Thank God that's over. Like- I- It happened- I understand to WWE. It, it happened, it happened to boxing. Right. It happened- So- You gotta wait for the next thing to come along. It happens to everybody. It's not unique to the UFC. Three people that I think are the most interesting, who I know are monsters, that I, but I love them as characters, are Don King, Vince McMahon, and Dana White because wow, they are serpents. Monsters, though. They're not human. And they're the same kind of monster, what you're r- referring to. It's so interesting. Yeah. Same kind of monster. They're serpents. Yeah. Un- unbelievable. They're so exploitative that they become, like, almost a, a, a caricature of themselves. They're not humans. They're serpents. Yeah. They'll do anything to survive. It's crazy. Yeah. And you know what the weirdest thing about those three guys is? They all look inherently masculine Oh, well, no, I think that's a huge part of it Yeah, it's a part of it, right? Like the- That Mussolini, that Stalinism, that like- Yeah. It- but it's like, it's so, it's so proto and f- but and also fake. Oh, yeah. You know? He's here. I'm daddy. Daddy's right here. Right. That's what it is. Right, right, right. There's a certain sort of... Yeah, you're right. It's, it is Stalin. It's sort of like this, this sort of weird tank-chested, uh, sort of- It- caricature figure sort of rolling in and going, "Oh, I'm here now, and I'm representative of this thing you love, and I'm, I'm almost a cartoon and I know it, but really I'm, I'm, I'm poisoning the fucking inkwell," you know? It's, it's Mao Zedong swimming down that river or the, the Yangtze River. Like, it- that's what it is. It's this ethos that they possess. They know that. The script's been written. They're just doing it on a minor scale. Dana White is, is so ham-handed at it. Um, you know, just making friends with Donald Trump, it's like, why? You know? He's been friends with Donald Trump forever. I know, but- Same brand of scumbag he can't, he can't, he can't... Surely he can't think that this is a sustainable brand. It's not. It hasn't been sustainable for anyone but Trump. Any hangers on fall off. So you make your f- your cool sport culturally about this, and you invite him to the fucking shows and stuff, and you j- you, a- honestly, you alienate me, and I've never felt alienated from a sport before. I really haven't. Like, I, I, it, it... Sports, and I'm sure plenty of people have. Like, this is a, a thing that's ha- you know, they wouldn't let fucking Pakistanis into Anfield in the '90s, you know? It's like, it's, it's fucking horrible and prevalent wherever you go, but it's, it's a thing where I'm like, "Well, um, am I not fucking welcome?" 'Cause I think, like, I don't know, gay people get to get married. I'm not, I'm confused. You know? Like, what's the fucking, what's the message you're sending when he walks into the arena and, like, the fucking fighter's talking to him, you know? I mean, listen, he took a failing business and look at what... And the one thing he can take away from is he knows what people are thinking. He knows what his fans are thinking. We are not always gonna follow him. There are people that will literally cheer on everything he does, and it's not just a small amount, it's a ton of people. A ton. I know. And we

Predictions And Closing Thoughts

1:01:45

love the sport, and he knows it. I don't think I do anymore. I do. I love it. I don't love it as much as I used to. No, God no. It's the worst product, though. That's why he's moving on. You know what's a great product? The NFL. I'm so excited for football season. Yeah, yeah. The NFL's a great product. The NHL is a great product. MLB needs work. M- N- NBA sucks. The MLB's gone up. I would say the MLB has gone up 36% since it implemented all my ideas from when we were 11. Right? I d- I'm not for nothing, but I argued with your fa- your most intense baseball friends, and I was like, "They need a pitch clock," and it's better now. Oh, it's way better What's the, what's... So are we both calling it Knicks- Yeah Knicks in, what, five? I think it's over. I think the Knicks win the next game, uh, tomorrow and it's over. All right. I'm gonna, I'm gonna stick to my, my prediction. I'm gonna alter- If the, if the, if the Spurs win the next game, it's fucking alive again. That's, that's the thing. It's... I, I genuinely believe that that's true, but I don't- It could happen I don't think it's gonna happen. I'm not gonna put any money on it. All right. Well, we talked New York Knicks, San Antonio Spurs. We talked, uh, the death of our innocence. We talked Conor McGregor. We talked a little bit of this, a little bit of that, a little bit of this, a little bit of that. This has been... And I really thank you for listening to Missing the Point