MTP Boston - Power Rankings | Bears vs. Pats review

Welcome And Power Rankings Chaos

Michael Marcangelo 0:25

Welcome to MTP Boston. I'm your host, Michael Marcangel, joined by DK Tisol Dave Clark. My best man, Zachary Gray, DK's best man, Dr. Diffit, E SQ, also known as Marty McPoy, also known as Matt Wilcox. We have a great show to go over today. We have to recap the Chicago Bears versus the New England Patriots, but I wanted to start. Did they play? Did they play again? Yeah, they played. We'll get to that, but I wanted to start with uh with Matt's uh with Matt's power rankings. So I had I wrote an opener and I wrote a closer, and then I saw Matt's power rankings before after I did those things. So I'm just gonna read the closing portion first uh and we'll go from there. Matt had the Patriots third last week. Now they're 11th. The Vikings jumped to number one, the Giants are suddenly 12th, and Seattle somehow dropped after embarrassing the Chiefs. So the question that I have for you, Matt, are these rankings measuring which teams are actually the best or just reacting to what happened on any given fucking game day? Why don't you explain yourself, please?

SPEAKER_05 1:25

Well, I decided after last week that I was gonna start really exercising domain over the list and just being the boss of it. Like instead of being like, you know, oh, I want to talk to my friends, like a republic. I'm just gonna go full, you know, Nero with it. We're gonna, I'm gonna reign supreme over you guys. You guys will dance from here, I'll lop your heads off. Um, that was the general idea of the list this week.

Vikings At One And Doubts

Michael Marcangelo 1:48

It shows. It shows uh a couple of a couple of notable uh notables. Well, I'll end with the Patriots, but Vikings move up four spots to number one. Um TK, do we do we trust the Vikings as as a number one on any power rankings at any point at any point in time in the season?

SPEAKER_01 2:09

I'm so glad you started with this because I've spent every power ranking show that I've hosted with Madonna this year being like, how do you not have the Vikings hire? And it's kind of that thing of like, I feel like I've been going over to his house and I've been like, dude, your TV, it's not, it's not, it's not hanging right. You gotta raise that thing up. And he finally went through the trouble of like calling a handyman and going through all the things that I asked him to do. But now that I look at it, the Vikings are number one, I'm like, nah, I don't know. Like, I don't, it just doesn't look right. So I guess sorry. Like, sorry that I kept giving you shit for not having a mire, because I yeah, I I don't know. I there's a um there's a uh famous sort of urban myth that they um like planted a like dozens and dozens of trees for Queen Victoria in England, and they're these like weird Victorian like hanging willows. I forget the name of the actual trees, but they're those trees that smell like cum. You know though, you know those ones that I'm talking about? You ever like walk through a patch of forest and you're like, wait, what is wait a second, why does that smell like a sock on my floor? That tree. And they sort of realize that late when they because they look nice, but they realize that when you have a grove of them, it smells like cum. So, Matt, honestly, your list, it smells like cum to me. I don't think you should have the Vikings at number one.

SPEAKER_05 3:21

I agree, I agree, but everyone was yelling at me that I wasn't doing this right. So, you know what? We got one undefeated team. We've got one team with a zero behind them, and there they are, they're number one.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

Well, so I don't know the mit the smell of a man semen, but I just okay like like any man's or like anything? My own maths, anyone's you know what?

SPEAKER_05 3:43

I remember I remember being in kindergarten, and my teacher was like, listen, everyone's gonna come back.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

Where are we going with where are we going with this?

SPEAKER_05 3:53

I remember being in kindergarten, our teacher told us everyone is gonna stop picking their nose, and the whole class went, ew, nobody's picking their nose. Zach, we all know what cum smells like.

Michael Marcangelo 4:06

All right, it's hard to hard to segue from that, but I'm gonna do my fucking best. I guess my my question to you, Matt, seeing as these are your power rankings. We accept no responsibility or blame or credit for anything that you do well. Um, is Minnesota genuinely the best team? I worried a little bit. Or was this more that the losses of the 49ers and and Casey made this an easier decision for you?

SPEAKER_05 4:28

That's exactly what it is. We have one team with a trailing zero. I feel like it's not fair to them to not put them as top dog when they're actually top dog right now. They're not gonna stay. This is not a prediction of where the future's going. This is a reaction to the 49ers and the Chiefs failing at their role. They didn't hold their guard up.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Well, their next two games are also divisional games. Lions, uh, or not their next two, but two of their next four. Lions and Packers, they play um to the next two Sundays. Then they have the Bills on Monday night in there, and then they have the Vikings on Sunday night. So it's like, I don't know, or not, sorry, not the Vikings, the uh the 49ers. So it's like uh it's like that's a murderous row. Uh like there's a chance they're was what have what do they want? Six games? There's a chance there's a chance they're six and four in five weeks.

SPEAKER_05 5:12

So then they'll be in 11. Then there'll be an 11 spot.

Michael Marcangelo 5:15

No, no, you'll you'll cross those fuckers off if they fall to six and four. I just I just know it.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

It's hard because like look at the look at that division. Like, it looks like we're all gonna make the playoffs. So I don't know. I don't know what's a crazy division.

Michael Marcangelo 5:27

It's a crazy division. Uh one last thing on the Vikings. Uh, does it pain you to have them uh through seven weeks uh as the number one spot on your power rankings when I think the two of you had them at a combined win total of two games in our prediction show?

SPEAKER_05 5:44

Yeah, man. It's tough look for us. It really is. I mean, it's it's for anybody to come out and say, no, I knew that that midget that was in Arizona was gonna come ball out and this horrible defense was gonna put it together. I mean, I think you'd be the idiot if you said that. But yeah, it's it's you know, uh that's why I love the NFL. You never know what's gonna happen. Sometimes uh you get the Vikings at 6-0, sometimes you get Michael Panics just demolishing the best team in the league. Sometimes you get the Patriots losing to the Bears. Crazy things happen.

Michael Marcangelo 6:13

Yeah, they do. I also I love that autofocus or blur that's on your camera right now. It's giving me stroke vibes. It's great. Uh let's let's let's talk about it. He wiped the lens like it was dirt.

SPEAKER_03 6:27

But last thing on the Vikings, uh, so they're second in the league in point differential. And then the crazy thing about that though is they're the fourth lowest scoring team. Yep. And the only teams that have scored less points are the Chargers, Titans, and is it the Jets, I think it is. Yeah, and if you watch those fucking teams, geez. Oh, they're it's it's horrendous. So it's uh no, sorry, yeah, Dolph, uh yeah, Titans, Dolphins, and Chargers are the other lower scoring teams. But their points again, they haven't given up a hundred points this year. Um, they blitz on every fucking down. Somebody's got to figure that out, right? I mean, geez. I mean, like it's a classic Brian Flores led defense that's uh overperforming. But like you said, I mean they have a tough stretch of games coming up, so I I mean I guess I would agree at this point that they at this point right now, at this week, yes, they have to be number one. You kind of have to respect that they are the last undefeated team standing. But just big old asterisk there, because I think shit's probably gonna go sideways because there's no way you can sustain a perfect record or a winning record, really, with that low scoring team. It's impossible.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

Mike, you don't think that, right? You don't think they need to be number one just because they've won a lot of games in a row. Because, like, famously, our biggest fight on in the history of this podcast was that I advocated for the Steelers when they won 11 straight to be number one in the power rankings because for the very fact that they won 11 straight. But now we sit here, nobody's calling it out. That Zach just said you kind of have to put them at one, and they only won six straight. I would imagine you would be vehemently up in arms against this, Michael, considering how much or was it because it was the Steelers?

Michael Marcangelo 8:05

No, no, I 100% am. I think that they are a byproduct of uh of a schedule, and and right now they're they've catching a lot of teams off guard. I I don't think that they're the number one team in the NFL. I don't actually don't think the person that made this fucking list believes that they're the number one team in the NFL, given that he just fucking said that. Whereas the last time this happened, there was some conviction behind a 12-0 team that really had not proven anything. But we don't we we can we don't need to to to go back into that. But I I take your point, I appreciate it, and you're right, DK.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

I also don't think the Vikings would have a perfect record if Caleb Williams didn't get hurt in that game. I think I think that had all the hallmarks of Caleb Williams is gonna win this game for the Bears. Even though it was a bad performance and it was a low-scoring game. I he had just made a play when his hamstring went, and it looked like he was gonna score a touchdown, then we didn't. So I'm just saying, like, it was it was whoever scored next in that exact situation, and we wouldn't be having this fucking conversation if that didn't happen.

SPEAKER_05 9:00

But plus that's like kind of Caleb's thing, right? Caleb wins games down and dirty.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Yeah, he does. I mean, like it's all of last year. I mean, he's cleaned a lot of stuff up this year, but like all of last year it was like uh he sucked for three quarters, and then like he went fucking bananas in the in the fourth quarter, which I don't know if he was gonna go bananas, but I'm pretty sure we were gonna win. I was like pretty confident. I had seen the game script before.

Michael Marcangelo 9:20

We are gonna do an ample amount of Caleb glazing later in the show, I promise.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

I'm not I wasn't glazing him. I was like, what's that gonna spell like?

Michael Marcangelo 9:27

Come. Uh like a fucking flower.

Giants Surge And Texans Meltdown

Michael Marcangelo 9:31

Uh the biggest jump on this power rankings were the Giants. So the Giants beat Houston 27-21 in overtime, and they they go up 10 spots. So I'm gonna ask you this question. Based on the ranking, Zach, uh, do you believe that the Giants are really better than the Ravens, Packers, Panthers, and Rams?

SPEAKER_03 9:52

Uh yeah. Uh maybe not the Panthers. Uh I still I still think they got fucking beat.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

They got beat up.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

No, they did. They got kind of exposed. Uh I guess from like a long term, again, this is a week by week ranking. So we do here.

unknown 10:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 10:10

So if we're saying like long term, like, do I think the Panthers would be fine? Yeah. But like right now, yeah, I I definitely think the Giants are. I mean, you you lose uh you lose your starting quarterback, you bring in uh Jameis, then you bring in JJ McCarthy, and you're somehow still pulling off these wins. Uh look, I I didn't think Harbaugh would be great in New York. I didn't think he was gonna I always kind of thought he was semi-overrated, but uh he's really proving that he's uh able to keep this team together, not just keep them together, but keep them winning.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

Uh Lamar take there, Mike. You know, like if he if he if he can do it, if he can do it with fucking JJ McCarthy, like what the fuck was Lamar doing all those years, you know?

Michael Marcangelo 10:50

I'd love all this. I do love that. Uh but you actually, I was gonna go to you next, DK, uh, because I'm just gonna read the eloquent uh uh uh epitaph that you wrote. The uh the Texans are fucking losers. So my question is should the Giants have jumped as high as they did, given that they beat a team that you didn't really uh appreciate, and we we had to kind of talk you out of uh crossing off two weeks ago.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

I think both things can be true. I think like what I was actually paying pretty close attention to that game because I put a little money on it, and I took a nap because I woke up early to watch the Liverpool game, and I took a nap and I like kind of was in a haze, and there was three favorites trailing, and I was like, this is this is gambling fucking heaven right now. I'm like, I think all three of these teams can come back. I thought the Texans were gonna come back and win. I thought the Cincinnati Bengals were gonna come back and win, and then there was one other one that I can't remember. And lo and fucking behold, the team that fucked me, like right off the bat, was the was the Houston Texans, even though they came back, tied at 14 up. And then I think both things happened at the same time. I think that that can happen, right? I think the Giants were like, nah, fuck that. We're winning this game. They look like a really well-coached team, they look like they made all the right decisions out there to go and win the game. And then at the same time, the Texans defense specifically, which I actually kind of thought week on week, Stroud's been pretty good. Our our own history, sort of notwithstanding. But he's been pretty good. I think he's looked alright. This is the reverse of what I thought this Texans season was gonna look like. I thought their offense was gonna, yeah, I think we all did. I think their offense was, I thought their offense was gonna trail, their defense was gonna be so fun to watch. Their defense, and I hate to say this because all those guys to a man would beat my ass, but they look like a bunch of bitches. They straight up look like a bunch of bitches out there. Like they just look, they just look completely fucking lost. And I have to think what ended up happening, and the only thing I can usually ascribe to that exact situation that I just described, is uh coaching. I I think there was a real dearth in coaching in that game. And I think one guy stayed really calm and did what he had to do to win the game, even though momentum went against him late. And I think another guy looked absolutely fucking lost when the game was on the line. And I it's not the first time I've seen that um with that coaching staff, to be totally honest with you. So I think it was kind of both things. And and quite frankly, yeah, there was an element of, and we'll come on to talk about this happening with other teams around the league too. But there was an element of like, actually, I respect the Giants a little bit this season. I actually do. And I I was sort of, I don't know how you guys were feeling about it, but I was sort of resistant to that because I definitely didn't think it'd come into the season, and I definitely didn't think it after Dark got hurt right away. And I, as much as they were losing me money as they were doing this, I was like, like last week everybody was like, what the fuck, Harbaugh? Like that was really weird that you brought Scataboo out, but never handed him the ball, and then he looked like a fucking absolute like raging bull out there when they when he when he turned his turned his little ticker and sent him out in the fourth quarter, and it was just like that worked. He's a good coach. Like, I don't, you know, I don't know if he's you know further hardware good. I I don't know if this era is gonna allow him to, and you know, the fact that he's coaching the New York football giants and and the roster he currently has and the situation he's currently in is gonna win him a championship in New York, but he's a good coach. You know, you don't have to be winning all the time, winning every Super Bowl to be a good coach. I always reference this that Brady and Belichick like broke our brains in in regards to like what is good and what isn't good. Like you can be good without like having won recently, in my opinion, and you just watch it unfold on the field.

Michael Marcangelo 14:25

Just to cross uh pollinate sports metaphors here, uh Matt, this does the Giants right now are giving uh 2013 Red Sox vibes to me. Like they're they no one gave them any respect. Um, and it looks like they are that they're at least a competent team. The one thing that I want to bring up, because you they're your biggest movers on the power rankings, they went up 10 spots. But the thing that has always snake bitten Harbaugh is blowing leads. And it looked like he was going to do that. So my question is, would they have risen further if they had just dominated and it had been 2114 or 21-7? Or did the fact that it went to overtime uh reduce how many spots they climbed?

SPEAKER_05 15:03

So that's actually a really good question. They might have fallen to 13 if it wasn't for the way that they won the game, but I'd still have to have them over the Ravens. They're ahead of that division, they're running one of my favorite divisions in football, and they're doing it uh and they're like, you know, in in a very strange, strange fashion. So I would say that even if that were the case, I'd still have them over the Ravens and the Packers. Um and I just I really like the way that their team is playing. And I know you do too. I know you're a scatterboo guy, so it's been very exciting for us. Uh very exciting football.

Falcons Upset And Penix Reality Check

Michael Marcangelo 15:32

Speaking of very exciting football, right? It's the time for the the the author of these power rankings to get a little pendic in his briefs. The Atlanta Falcons move up six spots after beating the 49ers 29-20. Uh, I had to go.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Oh, that was the other team I bet. That was the third leg of my parley. I got two wrong because I thought the 49ers were gonna win that game, even though they were down. Now, thank you for the reminder. I lost twice, so that was never winning that. That's I'm now I'm now realizing. Sorry, thank you.

Michael Marcangelo 15:58

Uh Matt, is six spots enough for beating your previous number one? And I guess my my follow-up would be why are the 49ers still at two?

SPEAKER_05 16:07

Still at what? I'm sorry, I missed that last part.

Michael Marcangelo 16:09

Still at number two.

SPEAKER_05 16:11

The 49ers are still at number two because I do believe that with a one-loss record, we've got two teams with one losses that are really worth their muster. I think they're better than the Chiefs. I think that healthy they're better than the Chiefs. I think when the playoffs come around, I'll have I'll be happy that I had them over the Chiefs in that angle. The Falcons are still three and four. And now I'm getting into this part. I feel like this point in the season, your record starts to matter a little bit more to me. It's where you're sitting in your table. What's your playoff outlook? How desperate are you about to get? What's the trade deadline going outlook for you? And uh, yeah, that was awesome. I mean, I love watching Michael Pennox Jr. just like cram it down your throat that like he's actually a good quarterback when he's healthy. Um and it was a really horrible game to watch. I hated watching it. It was kind of it was boring. Um but uh if they win again, if Michael Penix wins again, uh they're gonna crack my top ten right away.

Michael Marcangelo 17:00

So you heard it here first. A four and four team will uh be in the be in the top ten. Zach, uh was this more of a letdown game for the 49ers, or did Penix actually rise to the occasion? And because you stayed out of this uh mostly in the Discord, do you think he's a good quarterback?

SPEAKER_03 17:15

Penix?

Michael Marcangelo 17:16

He's fine.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

He's serviceable, he's fine. Like, no, I I don't know. Like it he doesn't he doesn't excite me, he doesn't do anything that makes me say, Wow, like did you see Michael Penix this week?

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Yeah, wow, but did you see Michael Penix this week? He looked really cute.

SPEAKER_03 17:33

Yeah, this week he did, sure. Yeah, this is probably the first week you've ever said that in his career. It's like every other time, it's like Matt. Oh, here's this highlight on red zone randomly. Cool. Okay, oh, well, the Falcons all had a few touchdowns, and oh, and they dropped to five and eleven. Like that's that's how it goes for the Falcons. I don't know. Like Penix just doesn't do it for me. Sorry.

SPEAKER_05 17:53

The way he watches B. John Robinson run into the end zone, though, in the background is very it's true, it's he's just a good looking background player.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

So it sounds like B. John Robinson's doing the work there and not Michael Penix.

SPEAKER_05 18:03

For sure. For sure.

SPEAKER_03 18:05

Right. All right, that's on tape.

Michael Marcangelo 18:07

I'm glad I'm I'm glad that we have to.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

I don't I don't trust I don't trust the the Falcons at all either, to be honest. I mean, I think I think Zach's pretty accurate with this. It's like reactions. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

I can't, it's one of those games where I'm like and also uh uh their coach is uh what's his name there from Cleveland before, right? Uh to fancy? Yeah, yeah so like I mean their offense is gonna have like their their moments, they're gonna look like a good team, but then that guy coaches like a dingbad every year. Yeah, we saw with the Browns, and you know, what's gonna change this year?

SPEAKER_05 18:36

They probably have the most talent on the field while still being below average overall, right? I mean, their offense has high-powered weapons and they're still not great. Why are they not?

SPEAKER_03 18:47

Sounds like because that sounds like the Falcons for the past two decades. That's what I'm saying.

Michael Marcangelo 18:50

I was gonna say, aren't the Falcons always like the most electric seven and ten team? Yep, always. Yeah, it's so accurate. That's so accurate. And listen, I think I'm a little hard on you for uh with Pen X. I think you're a little hard for him, but I'll just say I he's not as bad as I think as I say he is, but he damn sure isn't as good as you say he is. So I think we should just you know call a truce with him, with that team. I don't want a four and four team to crack your top ten, though. I do I'm I am really upset. I am there's one thing that you did on this power rankings, and I'm hoping that you don't say it was a mistake and it's not what we actually meant

Seahawks Humble Chiefs And Fallout

Michael Marcangelo 19:25

to do. The Seahawks beat the bag out of the Chiefs 20 to 3. And yet they fell from number eight to number nine. So how the fuck does that happen? Please just uh sorry, like just just explain this to me, and I'm a dumb person. Very easily. Who's above them that you disagree about?

SPEAKER_05 19:46

The Chiefs belong above them.

SPEAKER_03 19:49

The Chiefs. The Chiefs and the Bengals.

SPEAKER_05 19:52

Oh, wait, hold on. So be so the Chiefs are not better than the Seahawks.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

I don't think they're very clearly or not. I think that I think that I mean, if we're gonna move on to this, that's fine by me. If that's fine by you, Mike, but if we're gonna if we're fully moving on to this, I have to say, like, they're very clearly not better than the Chiefs. And this was uh such a great example of a show me game for for Kansas City where it was like, oh shit, Mahomes is back, and then everyone collectively at the same time started doing the same thing. We were like, wait, but oh, they're playing the Seahawks. Have they beat another team at the level that I think in my head about the Seahawks? No. Have the Seahawks historically been over the last two seasons been the best team against mobile QBs? Yes. Are the Seahawks uh gonna be coming up against a pretty flawed and that's I think generous offensive line of the Kansas City Chiefs, which we've known about, yes. Do I necessarily agree with with Zach's thing in the in the group chat about Mahomes has lost a step? I don't know. I don't know about that. What I do know is Travis Kelsey has lost fucking step. He is not the same guy anymore. Kenneth Walker has had a great few seasons and he did look like he transformed that offense, but he's a running back. And unfortunately, I'm sort of on Mike's side with the whole running back thing. It's like it's a running back, he played there last year, they're probably gonna figure him out. What are you gonna do when they stop the run? What are you gonna do when they stop the run? Because it's gonna happen to you from time to time. And the answer resoundingly from the Kansas City Chiefs, number three in your power rankings to the say our Seahawks number nine was uh fucking nothing. Like we're not gonna do shit. We're actually gonna look embarrassingly bad. Like, really, like we can't put our put anything together. So, yeah, I don't know, man. It's less that the Seahawks are nine, because I do agree about most of the other teams above them, and we had the conversation about the Vikings already. Like, I think the Seahawks are a better team than the Vikings if you ask me to bet on the if they're playing tomorrow. If you ask me to bet on one or the other, I take the Seahawks right away. But the Chiefs, I don't know. I I'm more that they should have fallen. You know, I think they should have gotten knocked down the the hill a little bit because it was a game not just the the difference between the the 49ers. Losing to the um to the Atlanta Falcons was when ESPN gets together and does one of those dumb like talking head segments that I'm glad we didn't do of like, do we need to be worried about the 49ers? You look for a second at the TV and you go, no. And then if you do it right now about the Chiefs, you turn it up because it's going to be an interesting conversation about how the Chiefs are basically like they a lot of their actual flaws were exposed. Not just like, ah, they had kind of a bad game, the other team had a good game plan against them, like they have a really pretty electric offense on the day. Like, you know, you never know. It wasn't that. You know, it really wasn't that. And I just I like I could be wrong. I mean, like next week they could turn it right around, but I don't know. I see some serious flaws in that Chiefs team.

Michael Marcangelo 22:40

I just think you two, before you go, Matt, let me let me handle the host and give you some flaws. I want you to explain to me how the Patriots lose by six points and they drop eight. But the uh the Chiefs get their in the game of the week, I might add.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

In the game of the week, like the most the most competitive game of the entire week, like the the most handshake, like good job, good job by you, good job by you, game of the week, right? Like, I don't know. You're hard on your own team.

Michael Marcangelo 23:10

The Chiefs show no semblance of offense and have no answers, and somehow they fall two spots.

SPEAKER_05 23:21

One spot, one spot one spot, two.

SPEAKER_03 23:34

I think I think whoever plays on Sunday night football next week should just fall one spot. I can do that too, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 23:41

But hear me out, hear me out here. Where are the Chiefs positioned in their division after that loss? Number one? Oh, yeah, number one. The Seahawks have a dominant 20-3 win, um, are almost leading the league in turnovers at the same time, and uh they're still number two in their division after their team, their number one team in their division lost. And they're what they'd have to have another three weeks of this happening for them to take number one. Seahawks are where they are because of how they've played not just this week, but the past five weeks. They what's being yeah, I just fair point.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

The divisional point is a fair point because I don't think the Seahawks are winning their division.

SPEAKER_05 24:21

I don't think they are either.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

And I don't trust Darnold. All right, yeah, there's also the Darnold conversation, too. It's I'm annoyed because I wanted the Seahawks to be higher because I wanted to make an impassioned plea that uh the Bears are the number one in the power rankings if we beat the Seahawks on Monday Night Football. Because that's two primetime games in a row, and I had all this stuff prepared to say, but now now you've like kind of lessened it. Now it's gonna be worse if we lose.

SPEAKER_05 24:41

Half of their wins came from a backup quarterback, so I'm not really high on the Seahawks at all.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

It's probably I still think Dan, I still think Darnold sucks. I'm never gonna not think Darnold sucks. I I think we're all in agreement on that, right?

SPEAKER_05 24:52

The ghost guy, come on.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

Yeah.

Michael Marcangelo 24:55

Fair okay. Um I don't know. I don't know that you you you answered the the Seahawks question fine. That's fine. But you don't I I I don't understand the discrepancy between the way in which the the Chiefs dropped or did not drop and how the Patriots dropped. And I would say that the Patriots looked way better in their game against a really good opponent as well. You're right. Let me explain. Um I don't have to, that's all I needed to hear.

SPEAKER_05 25:22

I hate them and they ruined my week, and I'm punishing them, and they can get themselves out of the corner next week when they have a chance. But they ruined my week. Uh they're in timeout, and they can't have dessert after dinner either, so I don't want to fucking hear it.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

I'm I really you can punish the Patriots and put them down. I'm really perplexed by the Bengals being at seven.

SPEAKER_05 25:43

Joe Burrow's just so handsome.

Michael Marcangelo 25:45

I mean Well, that answers that.

SPEAKER_05 25:47

He's a cutie pie. Come on.

Michael Marcangelo 25:50

I mean, since he since he scores 35 unanswered points uh to win 35-13 in Baltimore. Yeah, that's why.

SPEAKER_03 25:57

Right. And then they they beat the Dolphins last week, and they beat a Texans team that we say is ass, right? Well, uh we said it's ass, but we won't be able to do that.

Michael Marcangelo 26:08

We have not allowed them to cross it off.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Aren't the two Norths the winningest divisions though? Aren't they like is everybody's like well above 500 in their division? So like they're in a tough, they're in a murderous row where they are. And like there is the on-paper factor. Like they have really good fucking players and they made some sweet plays this weekend, I will say that.

SPEAKER_05 26:25

Plus, and you guys, this is true. This is just a fact. If you play in the AFC North or the NFC North, your wins are going to be more valuable to me because those divisions are fucking terror. They're a terror when they play each other. It doesn't matter what team's records are. When when Baltimore plays the Bengals, it's a war. And those wins are hard to go get. Just like when the Packers play the Bears, even when uh uh love looks like uh trash, it's a war. So they you get some bump from me. And the Seahawks will never get a bump from me because I think their jerseys are stupid and I hate their quarterback and I hate their faces.

SPEAKER_03 27:00

It's hard to argue with that. You are truly making these like you are rankings. It's not like as you should. Like it's just all emotions.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

Well, yeah, because I mean if we were an empire. If we were gonna interrogate some of the logic, I I don't mean to you know beat a dead horse here, but like you have the Steelers at 19, like that's just that's obviously you just you being petty. Like that's very clearly, very, very clearly just you being petty. Like, there's no reason to even argue about it. Like, you have the bracket.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Having the Steelers behind the Rams is fucking hilarious. I'm sorry, that is so funny.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

Like directly behind them, and then like it's like it's like who have they beaten this year? And it's like, oh no, a bunch of teams you have above them on the power rankings, including the Bengals, who are just we just litigated at number seven. So, like, I don't I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_05 27:44

Yeah, Nero. Nero is the inspiration.

SPEAKER_03 27:46

I love that. Why uh so is is the uh another one I found interesting was just because you said the Patriots are being punished by you and they get no dessert, but the Lions above them. Uh talk about the Lions capping off uh the top ten there.

SPEAKER_05 28:03

I think that the Lions are a very good football team. I think I was super impressed by uh the end of that game and the way that they came out and did it. I I love their coach, I love their running back, and I want to see a Bears-Lions war for divisional control. So that's where they get to stay. As long as if the Lions win, I'm gonna push them as far up my list as I can. Bears Lions.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

I say one quick thing about that Packers Lions game, unless we we're gonna devote more time to it. I enjoyed it because I'm pretty familiar with both these teams, obviously, for obvious reasons. We play them both twice a year. It's four games out of my schedule playing each other. And I looked at both of them in that game and I was like, not as good as my team. Neither of them. I was like, no, we're good.

SPEAKER_05 28:44

I was like, we're all good. Thank you. You see the end of that game where there's the false start on the nose tackle for uh the Packers, and they all the uh Detroit players did that weird little high-step dance to celebrate him going offside. Yeah, electric. Electric.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

I really enjoyed that.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

Uh I didn't get called for taunting, to be honest, but it was just watching like kids play Fortnite and just hitting like the emote button over and over again.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

Yeah, we will dance that. It did make me a little mad watching that game in that sense. And I also I what I enjoyed was that there was an egregious um no call that went against the Packers at the very end. And I just go to their Reddit when that stuff happens because like the fucking meltdowns that that fan base has, as the fan base that is like they are the New York Yankees of the NFL. Like people will try to frame it like it's the Pats, but it isn't. It's 100% the Packers, up to and including the recent run of not no success. And I think the I think the important thing to remember is that like no one has benefited from bad calls more than the Green Bay Packers over the years, and you can tell because their fan base is fucking suicidal because the uh a call went against them. They're like, that's not how it's supposed to work, that's not how it's supposed to work. It's exactly like when that happens to the Yankees, exactly, and if you're just sort of like it's really nice to sit back and watch because it is. They they completely got fucked by the refs, and I loved every second of it.

SPEAKER_05 30:00

So it was so good. It was so good. The another fan base, if you're bored and you want to see somebody freak out after a bad loss, Baltimore Ravens fans are both passionate and else do they have? That's not fair. They have to go back to Baltimore, but they're so seen the wire. Come on. Exactly. It's an indictment on the public education system. I remember going to a game there and hearing a fan yell, how many timeouts are the Patriots gonna get? I swear to God, best moment of my life. They're so stupid. That's funny.

Michael Marcangelo 30:26

Let's just round out the top 10 and then we'll get a transition into uh the the Patriots uh in bear. So here's you know, Matt, I I I love this fucking power rankings. I do love that you started to fucking own it. Uh it feels more and more like yours, which is fucking chaos. Yeah, it's starting to make me mad.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Like the first few weeks, like I was like, yeah, yeah, this is really reasonable. Wow, Matt. And then now I'm like, you're a fucking asshole.

SPEAKER_05 30:46

Like, what big time. Shout out Leah.

Michael Marcangelo 30:49

Thanks for the Steelers. Uh top ten, we have uh the Lions at 10, Seahawks at nine, Broncos at eight, Bengals at seven, Bills at six, the Bears at five, Jags at four, Chiefs at three, Niners at two, and the Vikings at one.

Bears Beat Patriots What Broke

Michael Marcangelo 31:04

So we need to we need to talk about what uh what happened on the field uh last Thursday, I think was the best game of the week, which DK already talked about. Uh going into this, like if I'm just gonna attack this from a Patriots perspective, three straight wins, Drake May playing like an MVP candidate again, and suddenly everyone thought the Patriots were back. Then Caleb Williams and the Bears put 30 on the board, and the Patriots forgot how to fucking tackle. So, my question, and I want to start with DK, was this a bad Thursday night on the road for the Patriots, or did your Chicago Bears expose why this team is not ready to compete with the best in the NFL?

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Oh, I don't think it was either of those things. I I think it was two really good teams playing each other, and it came down to one. Uh, I know this is gonna seem like uh maybe a glib assessment of the game, but I keep re I've watched the all 22. I was up till fucking two in the morning on Thursday watching the all 22. Like I was like, I'm like, I'm about it. Um, I really enjoyed the game, obviously, but I I really think it was it just came down to that, uh it came down to that interception. I think if Drake doesn't throw that ball, I think there's a really good chance you guys win the game. I think that like the Bears very strangely, and this is what like a culture change does, I think, uh, and like Ben Johnson has I think fully rounded out the culture change. Every Bears team of the past, at least 18, 19 years, every single one. That really dumb play by Caleb at the end where he like runs backwards and like gets them out of field goal range, that results in us losing the game, even though we had the game in our hands. The Bears love snatching defeat from the Jaws of Victory. Zach pointed it out earlier, like they're playing the double doink. It's just like even the broadcasters were like, This is the fucking bears for you. Like, this is the fucking bears for you. And it took Ben Johnson's massive balls to be like, go hit your fucking career long, go hit your career long, and believing that that could happen, and then that actually happening. Like, that's how you have to reverse that juju. So I really don't think it was any indictment on the Patriots or like their flaws. In fact, I left the game. I hate to admit, I was lying last week when I said all those nice things about the Patriots. I just didn't want you guys to say anything mean about the Bears. I kind of was like pretty sure we were gonna win, to be honest. I didn't really like want to talk that much shit though. Um, I actually left that game with a lot more respect for the Patriots and Drake May specifically. Like, there's a level of elusiveness in playmaking that he has that's a lot of fun to watch when it's not happening against your team. Um obviously, when it's your team, you're going like just fucking sack him. But like I don't think that that was much as much of an indictment on them as it is just like Drake's pretty fucking elusive man, and he's a really good playmaker. And I really like that his playmaking is um vertical. And I think that Caleb has a lot of really good horizontal playmaking. Like, I think when he rolls out and he has to do the kind of uh backyard football thing, I think he's going sideline to sideline. And I think what Drake does is he does that little happy feet sort of uh tiptoe dance, and then he can find a guy with like a lot of really good vision. It's a lot of it's really fucking cool to watch. They're very different quarterbacks for two guys that you would describe as like mobile, good arm strength. Like they have a lot of the same on-paper features, but like they're very different QBs and they're in very different systems. And I really I liked having respect for that defense leaving because that made it all the better. You know what I mean? I was like, fuck, that was like a Mike Vrabel defense, and it was it looked every inch of Mike Vrabel defense, and also it looked like he made the final coup d'etat coaching move by doing that really clever, like take the offsides or the neutral zone of whatever it was that they called, so that you give him a fresh 10 because there is that very strange situation where you're almost you're better off, it's more downs, you know, like it is technically more downs if you if you don't give us the automatic first down. And I guess you can't decline that penalty, which is weird. Um that's strange, but whatever. Uh they should fix that rule now that I think about it. But um, or unless you just didn't decline it, which would have been stupid, but um, it was nice that it was it looked like a high-level coaching battle, a high-level quarterback battle, and Chicago's defense wasn't as terrible as I know that they are in their heart. So, like, uh yeah, I don't know. I don't think it was some sort of indictment of of of anything that the Patriots are or aren't. I I I it was our best win of the season for all those reasons.

Michael Marcangelo 35:11

Let me uh let me just counter that point and uh and not give you any time to respond because I'm gonna throw it to Matt. No problem. So DK says that this looked like a variable defense. He had more respect for the defense. Matt, uh, so of the 66 plays that Chicago ran on offense, 230 yards allowed on just eight of those plays. Eight of those plays uh accounted for 50 over 50, yeah, 57% of Chicago's offensive snaps. So do you think that this was a solid defensive showing from the Patriots? Again, 16 missed tackles and 230 yards on eight plays, or are you more in Zach's camp where this was Drake May's fault and that he should own it?

SPEAKER_05 35:49

I think we could have won the game if Drake May didn't make that mistake. I think that this exposed a bigger problem that we have. This team is probably two years away from being a real weapon. I think that the Bears are well coached. I think their offense is well oiled. I think Caleb's in a position now where he doesn't miss when he's on when he's on when he's not under pressure. And we looked, I you know, it was a close game on the scoreboard. I saw the score. Uh, it didn't feel like that. It felt like we lost that game by 13 points. It felt like we were chasing them the whole time. They ran in front of us. And I know this team. I know when this team is having an off night. I know when our quarterback is fucking up our game plan. And I also know when we're down two cornerbacks and we look slow across the field, and we look like a guy like Ben Johnson is toying with us to run left, run right, run left again, and we're not getting in the way of that. The tackling was horrible, the coverage wasn't great. Um, Caleb looked like a stud. We don't, I mean, when we're when our teams are good, our quarterbacks, even good ones, don't look like studs against us. They look like they're playing our game, like they're struggling to keep it in. We look like we were struggling to keep it in. And yeah, could have won the game, sure. But they're they're crafty. We have a lot of talent across the field. Uh, this team is two years away, two offseasons away from being uh top four team in my opinion.

Michael Marcangelo 37:08

So Zach, you say that Drake May lost the game. And I think that from everyone's it sounds like everyone agrees with you, but I've again 16 missed tackles, seven plays of 25 or more passing yards allowed on that defense, and six defensive penalties. Is it really fair to say that it was Drake May that lost that game for the Patriots?

SPEAKER_03 37:30

Uh is it fair? Not really. But I mean they lost by six and he threw an interception in the end zone. So I mean that's six points right there. Um look, I think when you have a MVP runner-up, you expect him to make elite plays and not make stupid mistakes and not make stupid plays that are going to cost you. And throwing picks in the end zone is a whether or not it's well defended, whatever the case may be, throwing picks in the end zone isn't excusable in my book. And you can't do it. If you want to be an elite quarterback and and have big wins in prime time, you can't throw interceptions in the end zone. Um, now, yes, the defense didn't look great. I also want to say that the offensive rush, the rushing has been horrendous. Uh the Pats in total rush for 70 yards. Uh DeAndre Swift rushed for 78 yards. That's embarrassing. That's awful. Drake May, once again, leading the team in rushing with 26 yards.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

I'll just point that out, like on the other side of the ball.

SPEAKER_03 38:35

The the well, the fucking Bears look tremendous against the run because the Patriots don't know how to run the fucking ball. It's awful. Um so yes, there are definitely a lot of other flaws you can you can uh point on this game. So I think definitely in the moment when the game ended, I'm like, oh yeah, that inner yeah, it really was that interception. Um definitely the emotions are riding high on that. But uh, but when you take a step back and look at all the other stats, look at uh you know all the missed tackles on defense, what have you? Yeah, I mean, there's definitely a lot of other flaws here for this Patriots team.

SPEAKER_05 39:07

And you just to counter my own point and to agree with Zach, of course it's like it's like, yeah, Drake may threw. What the fuck was that interception? Who were you throwing that ball to? What did you see, son? Where were we looking? Do we need new glasses? What happened here?

SPEAKER_01 39:21

But I got the bell wrong like three plays before that. That's true. Like it was on the last drive, but it wasn't that it wasn't that long before that. And it was like not called. It was an egregious helmet to helmet on a QB. And it was not called, and then he and then he was like, he did like the throw looked like a concussed person's decision. He threw a right killer fucking linebacker.

SPEAKER_05 39:38

He threw a right killer. Uh, but again, it's that thing. It's like, oh, was the double joink the reason the Bears lost that game? No, they put themselves in a position where a field goal had to make the difference. It's a team sport, and yeah, we all saw it happen. But yeah, if you're an elite quarterback, you're you're a runner-up MVP. That's how we end this. That's how we end your big uh Manning versus Brady moment. Sick, dude. Thanks why.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

He brought up the he brought up the double doink again. You had to listen about the double doink, despite the fact it didn't even have to be brought up.

SPEAKER_05 40:12

That was why he did that on purpose. Yeah, yeah. Man, that double doink was like kissing your grown son, baby. You know, you just gotta get it out there.

Michael Marcangelo 40:19

No. DK, to answer your question. Uh, I don't think we lost the game because of that interception.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

But I mean, if you're if you're but if you're trying to draw a line, or if you're worried, I should say, if you're worried about it, it being your defense, like you're a you're a stats guy, and you played the statistically most explosive offense in football right now. And I think that I think that what happens is, um, that's not me being like, oh, I'm full of bears are sick. Like, I think it's all gonna get taken away from me at any moment. Trust me. Like, I'm a I'm a child of trauma in this situation, but like statistically, that that's what they are. So when you're worried about those eight plays making up, was it eight plays you said made up like a large percentage of of what we eight plays 230 yards? Yeah, but if you think about the actual eye test, like compared to that, like one was Luther Burden looking like prime fucking Barry Sanders, like just doing it an interdimensional juke, which I was just like, that's fucking crazy. Um, I mean, he's really good, a good yards after catch guy, but that was nuts. Um, Caleb, I do think made the two best throws of last season, and I think that right now has made the number one best throw of this season so far with that uh pass to Adunze. That's a fucking one in a million shot. You know, like that's a like that that play, he should have checked down and then we would have ended up punting. And I think that every other QB in the league does that. And I I do respect that he has like that he's a psychopath, and like he made he really I truly believe he could make that throw. And I like that he went back to a guy who made some pretty bad mistakes and really hasn't gotten off the ground, but that's a crazy shot. Like there's a good chance that doesn't happen, and then you're not indicting it. Stop right there.

Michael Marcangelo 41:51

That's why I'm not all that's why I'm not blaming uh Drake Mae, because he also thinks that he can make throws he should not even try to make. It just Caleb throws significantly less interceptions than correct. No, I'm no, I'm with you, but I'm not listening the way that he that that Drake rebounded from that interception for the rest of the game shows me that he's gonna do that. He's he's going to do it. I know what's gonna happen. There are things you're gonna have to live with. If if we're down six with 30 seconds to go, and he throws that pick in the end zone, he lost the game for you because he could have won it. At the time, there was still a whole nother half to be played, and they did their best to come back on offense. So the way that I would frame it is Caleb Drake didn't uh did not lose the game, Caleb won it.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Yeah, I guess that's true. But I mean this, I I mean I do think that that's true, but I also think that like from to Matt's point, when he was saying like it didn't feel like we were only down six, it felt like we were you know chasing the whole game. I felt like we were defending three points and we dropped fucking 30. Like I saw I from my perspective, it's a weird fan thing. Like from the whole fucking game, I thought the way that it looked when you guys got out on the field, I just thought you could score on us at any time. And then the way that halftime ended, and the way like I thought we did to you what it turned out, you did to us, right? Obviously, like that Luther Burden play where it's like, oh, it's so egregious that you let that in. Like, you gotta be so fucking furious at your defense when that goes in. And then a much worse version of that happens on the kick up or uh right, like on the first on the first play after the kickoff, right? So you're just like your weird fan goggles are on, is is my only point. And it's like it's happening to both of us, you know.

SPEAKER_05 43:28

Let me say this though, as far as weird fan goggles go. Mike, Zach, what do you guys think? I think that this Bears team is fucking dangerous with those two wide receivers. The way that they can put it together, this team, I uh honest to God, I think that they everyone in the NFC should be really scared of the Bears. Really scared. That is not a team you want to see with three minutes left in a playoff situation.

SPEAKER_01 43:49

It's none of that's true. It's everything's fine. And don't look over here. Everything's you know, you guys don't need to look over here. The Bears are just like the regul they're the same old Bears. Don't worry about them. It's all good. Every Everyone's ever, the Rams or whatever.

SPEAKER_05 44:02

Chat, when it does blow up in Dave's face, I'm gonna be bottling his tears and selling them. So check my Patreon. But you know.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

I feel like it's gonna be a situation where if I watch them lift the Lombardi trophy, I'm still gonna be like, yeah, I don't know. I don't know.

Michael Marcangelo 44:17

That's trauma. After this game, I want another one. And I would love to play you guys again in February. Absolutely. Because I don't think that if every if everything's the same or everyone's healthy, I don't think these two teams have it in them to be a blowout one way or the other. So I think this is what it's gonna be for the rest of their careers. It's gonna be one possession games where they're both balling out and one makes a mistake.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

I didn't realize they had a they had a friendship going into this game either. I did not know they've been close for since college, they said. Yeah, that they knew each other and like they, you know, they're you know, they called each other their closest friend in their draft class, which like I, for one, uh would put a stop to if I had any influence over either of them. I'd be like, no, no, Caleb asked for his jersey after the game. Yeah, yeah, and that's all well and nice. And I know it's a generational thing, but if you ask me, um you guys can be friends when you do inside the NFL in in 20 years. That's that's completely fine. I I enjoy uh uh Shaq and Charles Barkley, but I enjoyed them fucking beating the shit out of each other a hell of a lot more. So like it's not you don't get to hang out. Like, I'm sorry, it's not you're too nice of a that's my one thing with Caleb is I do believe he's a football psycho and I do believe he's a real competitor, but sometimes I'm like, you're a little too nice of a guy. You're a little too nice of a guy sometimes.

Coaching Choices And Defensive Blind Spots

Michael Marcangelo 45:32

Something you also said about this being a Vraible coach defense, and I I want to throw it to Zach now, so you don't have time to defend yourself again, DK. Uh how many times uh how many more times do they need to see uh a tight end in the flat before they put a fucking corner or a safety on them? Like how how how infuriating was that for you to watch Zach?

SPEAKER_03 45:56

Yeah, uh, I think a lot of times, and I think this kind of goes with Fraple's coaching style, is he he's not he's very anti-Belichek in the sense that if someone screws up or something goes wrong, he's not going to be reactive and you know, guy fumbles, benches ass for the rest of the game or drop pass. You know, you're probably gonna be the number four receiver the rest of the time, or even adjustments on defense, same thing. Um so I think Vrabel is very much believing in his guys and wants to stick to the game plan and stick to personnel. He wants to show he has trust in his players, but it can also be a detriment to the team as well and to himself. Um yeah, that was very much infuriating. So it's at some point you have like you have to make the adjustment sooner.

SPEAKER_05 46:50

Where's the roaming safety? Where is the roaming safety? Why you have two wide receivers lighting you up, you have a tight end lighting you up. Why are there two linebackers in the box? I Mike, come on, man. Come on, Vrabel.

Michael Marcangelo 47:01

No, listen, I I I know what you're saying, uh, exactly. And you said I I do agree. Uh if if a player makes a mistake, Vrabel is more likely to give them uh, you know, leash. The problem is the only mistake that this player made was that he was born slower than a fucking tight end or two. Comet and Loveland looked great. Like, and it they were really just five-yard flat passes that they turned into 20-yard fucking gains for no reason. So uh, Matt, let me ask you because done, just putting that out there. Yeah, yeah. Well, I've heard that from you before from you before. So I'll believe it when I say it. Uh no, I mean you can just look at the injury report, it's it's season, it's done. Matt, two weeks two or three weeks ago when you and I uh did the show, uh, I asked you, are you more impressed by Josh McDaniel's offense or the defensive coordinator in Variables defense? I'm waiting for now. I'm gonna re-ask you this question based on what we saw because I think this was a tale of uh of two different styles, right? I would say the first quarter was awful for McDaniels. It would it it was actually good for the defense, and then after that, it just uh seesawed. So who do you have more confidence in right now?

SPEAKER_05 48:11

Uh I I have um I have confidence in both of them. I think that this is gonna boil down to who's playing with less, who's uh architecting the game with less talent on the field. Our defense looked like they got fucking tired, man. They got tired and and everyone had a leg up on us. And yeah, that Rome catch, what are you gonna do about that? But Loveland, man, he was a step up on everyone. And for some reason, we don't have a safety covering him. Where why are we floating 14 across the middle on him? It just didn't work. It's it never worked. So why aren't we making an adjustment there? I have a problem with that.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

I it's weird that I'm in this position to defend the Patriots again, but also like Christian Gonzalez didn't look like himself. You know, like if he takes away one weapon, is that game completely different? Like he had the fucking flu or whatever, and it looked like it.

SPEAKER_05 48:54

Yeah, he looked sick, but also he he was tired because we're down two cornerbacks, and I think that's where you're gonna be able to judge our coordinators at the end of the season. It's we've got Josh McDaniels trying to win games when the running backs are dying, and we're down to what uh like two backups left for the whole offensive line. How many players do we have out of position? Three on the offensive line. And then on the defense, we're not we're just our short cornerbacks. We've got our retired linebackers, and now what? We've got another injured lineman too. I think it's gonna come down to health for us. And at the moment, I guess I'd give the edge to McDaniels because I was really impressed by the way he put it back together. Like, because when it starts broken and you fix it going through the game, that's something when you trail off. That's obviously not ideal. You don't want to see that from any uh team.

SPEAKER_03 49:37

I really, I really do wish this game was either a Sunday night game or Monday night game. Yeah, it was fucked up that it was a Thursday. And I understand like they have to mix in like a good actual game for a Thursday and not just have it before. This is the best Thursday game of all time. Yes, it was. But it it's it kind of sucks because you you kind of get a lesser product in terms of you know, maybe some of these guys weren't feeling well or you know, they're not fully recovered like they should be on a week-to-week basis.

SPEAKER_01 50:02

You're gonna see more penalties, you're always gonna see more penalties, like it's just it it's gonna be kind of a sloppier product out there.

SPEAKER_03 50:08

So it is kind of a shame in that, but at the same time, I I think we kind of saw that you know, when the Patriots defense doesn't have time to set up their blitzes or or the coverage and they're being rushed by a good offense, they're not necessarily gonna be able to keep up with their personnel. Like we were just bringing it back to Mike's point about you know having their tight ends out in the flat. Like, you know, if you're if you don't have uh if you don't have the talent to keep up or the speed to keep up, then like and you don't have the time to set up your pre-snap adjustments or your pre-snap blitzes, like that's hard to overcome if you don't have the talent there.

SPEAKER_01 50:45

Yep. I don't know, man. I think we're gonna be doing that to teams all fucking year, and it won't like look as bad. You know, like I honestly think we're gonna if we go to this to the Seahawks defense, who I know you guys rate. Like, I know you rate that defense, and I know that they can get pressure on the QB. Now, I don't know how easy it's gonna be to win for the Bears to win that game because I think Jackson Smith and Jigba is gonna fucking feast on the Bears secondary. Like, I don't think you guys had anybody doing that because I don't think AJ Brown looked like you know, at his absolute best um to be to be nice about it. But you know, I think JSN is gonna absolutely fucking eviscerate us and it's gonna be a shootout at best for for the Bears. But if you just watch in a nutshell, in a in a in a vacuum, what I think that we're gonna do against one of the better defenses in the NFL, I think you'll feel a little bit better about it, to be honest, because that what you're describing is what they set out to do. Like, this isn't a secret, like tight ends making um leak out flat plays, uh you know, uh late reads that Caleb knows are bailout and check down um uh situations for him are designed as explosive plays. Like we have designed like fourth and fifth read plays that yeah, like I get it, like it sucks that the blitz didn't get to him or whatever, but he's like, one of the most elusive QBs in the NFL, you know? So it's like you think about that burden throw, arguably as impressive or just slightly less impressive is the juke to not get sacked right before it. Like the way he slides out is like pretty sick. And like I think I guess the point the point I'm making is I don't think that this should be the stall that you're putting out against your defense because from my perspective, we played a really fucking good defense because the I've seen this offense play a bunch of other defenses, and like, yeah, I mean we've scored less points or whatever, and the Vikings, you know, Brian Flores' Vikings blitz got to us, sure. That was a disgusting game, and I I never want to think about it again. But honestly, like I I really thought you gave us fucking fits at times. Like there was just times where I was like, oh my god, we're just not getting it going in the way that I that I wasn't seeing the things that I see from the Bears for long stretches of time that that looks like they're gonna win the game. And they did win the game in the end, and I get that, but there was long stretches of like, oh shit, the run doesn't look right. Oh shit, that three and out was really incredibly badly timed. Oh shit, we just gave up a sack to take us out of field goal range. You know what I mean? Like that stuff. You know, you got to him because he has the that confidence and he thinks he's gonna be able to make that play, and then you got to him, you made the play. So it's like, I don't know. I think there's positives.

SPEAKER_05 53:10

You know, but and just while we're still on coaches, not to change the subject too much, Dave, you're your defensive coordinator there. I don't know, I forget his name. Uh, he looks like the Dennis Allen. Dennis Allen looks like he exclusively has sex with the lights off, and he pulls his penis through the peehole in his pants. Like, what a weird-looking guy, huh?

Michael Marcangelo 53:29

This was the first time since 1993 that the Patriots blitzed 65% of the time and did not record uh a sack yard. Oh so your your offensive line held up. It was your ab I do love I thought I thought Caleb managed this game perfectly. The way that he got to the line, he disrupted the snap count. He the he did quick little shifts. I thought he played a perfect game. I do. And I think uh I think obviously I I've been saying this to you for two years. Uh I say a little bit less once you start peacocking, but I mean it. Like he's a top five quarterback, you know that. And he will be for the next for the next 20 years. And we won't talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

I've never had one of those. I don't know what that looks like.

Michael Marcangelo 54:15

I don't know what that looks like. But can I ask you an objective question, Dave? Sure.

SPEAKER_00 54:20

Yeah.

Michael Marcangelo 54:20

Are we are do you think the the three of us are talking about Drake May being the reason why we lost this game? Are we having that conversation still if AJ Brown just did what he normally did in his career and fought off a defender and caught a ball that was thrown to his fucking breadbasket?

SPEAKER_01 54:38

Yeah, that was pretty crazy. I mean, I think I do think Mohammed made one really good play on him where he like had it, he did have his arm like across. Like I thought it was one of the better throws. Probably top three throw of the night from Drake. Just like he's got that really incredible deep ball that just drops exactly where he wants it to. It's really he's been able to do it since his rookie year, and I've I've always been impressed by it. But it was that one was particularly impressive to me because it really was going to drop exactly into AJ Brown's hands, and I don't think that was Brown's fault. I think Muhammad just timed it. What I will say is I remember this old tape of Gronkowski talking about uh Belichick coaching him up to look later, to turn his head later. And now these are the percentages that you're dealing with at the top level at the NFL, right? Which is crazy. But he's like, it works. Like if you just resist the urge to turn your head, the DB doesn't know, like that's what they're using to react, right? And I I do think AJ Brown turned around a little too soon. If you're if you're giving him any criticisms, but I also think the corner, I think Mohammed made a really nice play on that. Um, and he's a rookie, so like I like to give him credit when when I can, but I again like the margins we're talking about are tiny. You know what I mean? Like, are we talking about this if he doesn't make that one throw in the end zone? Yes, end zone interceptions are egregious, Zach. I I nothing feels worse, right? I I agree with you. Are we talking like this if that happens? No. Are we talking like this if a one in a million fucking uh pass to a dunze? And great catch as well, by the way. Like a lot had to happen there. Like, it's it's very rare that you need a great catch with a great throw, right? Like, usually a great catch comes from like shit, he had to fix some of your work here, right? Um, that's a one in a million moment, like just little things like the the idea that the Patriots did stifle the Bears running game, and we were and I said to you guys, if you guys do that, you probably win the game. And that didn't happen. Like, that's it's so minute, these margins, and it's just like I wish we could play each other every week. Like, that's that's what I got gathered, I gathered from that game. Like, I just thought no team came away obviously better than the other team. I really don't. Like, I think if you run that game 10 times, I don't know if it goes like you guys are acting like it goes the bears' way eight times, and I just don't know. I I really don't.

SPEAKER_05 56:45

Fine, but I think it became clear that Ben Johnson's probably a better coach than Mike Frab.

SPEAKER_01 56:50

I don't know. I saw a ton of really good coaching from Mike Frabel. Like Mike Frab, I was the I like when when we did the coaching sweepstakes, and I understand this is part of why our teams are like interlinked, but when we were doing the coaching sweepstakes, we drafted our our guys in the same draft, and we went and got our coaches the same offseason. I wanted Vrabel. I was on this podcast being like, I I want I want fucking Mike Vrabel. Like, that's the guy I want. Bears identity, defense, all this shit. And we got each other's guy, I guess, whatever it is. And like I now our teams are are always you know inextricably linked uh out there in the in the in the netherverse. But like, I don't know. Like, I just don't have the kind of I I guess I thought I was gonna have some sort of like maligned opinion about this Patriots team, knowing knowing all that. Like I th I thought they were gonna I was gonna see them as like the evil version of this Bears team, but like to me now it's like if you guys are doing good, then we're doing good. You know what I mean? Like it's like it does they don't seem like they're they're necessarily opposites, they're more just like that game. That yeah, that game just felt fucking cool. Like it's just I know we're supposed to have more eloquent takes than that, but from both sides, it just felt cool. It felt cool to have two good football teams play each other on a fucking Thursday night, to your point, Zach.

SPEAKER_05 58:03

It was just like one of those boxing matches where just two guys go out there, two greats go out there and kill each other. One gets their hand raised, but everyone's bleeding. But hey guys, what do you think about the Caleb Williams plus 1800 for MVP?

SPEAKER_01 58:16

That's I don't think you can win MVP after missing that time. I don't I don't think it's possible.

SPEAKER_05 58:22

It's possible. It's totally possible.

SPEAKER_01 58:26

We have a tough record.

Week 8 Pressure And AJ Brown Panic

Michael Marcangelo 58:27

How much is my mortgage payment this month? Who who has more to lose in week eight? The Patriots or the Bears?

SPEAKER_01 58:36

Well, we're playing the Seahawks. So if we lose to the more respectable, and the Patriots are playing the Dolphins.

Michael Marcangelo 58:41

So I mean if we don't no no the reason why I asked that is we have in order like the Bears can lose by three to the Seahawks, right? And and m uh Matt will probably move the Bears up and the Seahawks down. Yeah the Patriots need to beat the Dolphins by like 25 in order for it to feel like it's a it's a it's a big win. So I know the opponents are vastly different, but I think that all that just means like I'll I'll say it again now that we've kind of laid out the context. If the Patriots win by seven and the Bears lose by three, who do you feel better about?

SPEAKER_03 59:17

Bears, easily right. Right. Look, it it like I know the Dolphins just got their first win, but it was against the Jets. But I think the Jets are whoever and who we just barely beat by seven. Right. But the Jets have also kind of had those scrappy games all season long so far. So it's not to say that oh, the Jets are a great team, it's more of like they seem like they're gonna be the pain in the ass of every team they play every week. Yeah, agreed. The Dolphins, the Dolphins though, are ass. They are booty cheeks, ass. They are and they're being anything anything less than a 10-point win is a failure. Complete failure. So yeah, I I think yeah, you have to handicap it in this one. It's bears plus three and and Pat's minus 10 in this in this case.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:09

I don't think that's the conversation though, because like to be honest, with on a long week after coming off that game, and like I think That's even more reason for them to have to like win by the same.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:17

But that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:18

I don't think it's I don't think you look at it, I don't think that should be the perspective. I think the perspective from my perspective, I know you can't say this when it's your team, I get it, but from my perspective, I'm like, I've just think about it from a gambling perspective. I'm like, oh, the Patriots are gonna fucking destroy the Dolphins. I'm like, the Patriots are gonna fuck the Dolphins up. Like it's you know that meme when your team loses and somebody's like, I have to take take it out on someone, and it's someone playing Madden on like ultra easy, and the score is like 106 to zero. Yeah, heavy breathing. That's what I think the dolphins are in for right now, to be totally honest with you. I think they're gonna quit early after the Patriots go up two scores, and then the Patriots are gonna run the run the score up because I think Rabel's like, I think we need to win, a big win, the divisional one.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:59

I think that's Mike's point, though. If we don't dog them, that's not good. Well, why even worry about that? Because I worry about everything, because I hate these teams that make me hate myself.

Michael Marcangelo 1:01:08

Historically, Patriots teams don't play well in Miami.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:11

Uh, that's funny because I think the biggest run-up the score example I can would ever pull of any team in in the history of the NFL is when uh Brady and Moss went down to Miami and he just started throwing like Madden cheat code level touchdowns. Like they and everybody at the to the point where they asked Belichick, was that really nice? Was that fair? Did you need to run up the score? And he was like, We're playing football. I don't know what to tell you.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:35

It's just like Yeah, except AJ Brown is not clearly not Randy Moss. And I have the I think if anything, like the I think the bigger thing this week is not just if the Patriots win, they're seven-point favorites, they should be more. The bigger thing is, is AJ Brown gonna fucking show up at any point? I mean, now we're we're three weeks after the injury now, or we're trying to get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:59

You need a high ankle sprain. Those things last forever. They're so shitty. They're so shit.

unknown 1:02:06

Great.

Michael Marcangelo 1:02:08

But he's getting to he's getting to the ball. He he's getting there. Yeah, he's just not he's just not fighting for the catch. He's like scared. He's acting like he had a high wrist sprain.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:17

You're he's acting like you can get your hands up, your your hands can get up, and grasp the ball.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:24

He doesn't look, he looks like he's wouldn't you say that the reason why this is happening is because he looks like he's lost a little bit of like a half a step or a little explosiveness, though. Like he's not it's not that he's like it's not that he's like dropping easy underneath passes or whatever. That's not his game. His game is running fucking faster than a guy down the sidelines. And I think when you have a high, a high high ankle high ankle sprints suck, dude. They they take forever on top.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:46

You're right. But no, I'm angry because he looks like Brandon Lloyd. He looks like he's thinking, well, you know, I'm hurt right now, and I probably have another contract in these legs, so let's take it easy here. That's why I'm upset.

Michael Marcangelo 1:02:57

The smartest thing that he could do is accept the transition, uh, like uh Anquan Bolden did when he went out to Arizona. And he's just gonna be a big body receiver, and that's what he should do. And now I hate that. I hate that you're right. That's the all all I'm asking for, David. Yes, he had a high high ankle sprain. I'm not asking him to still run a 4-40 because I'm just saying if you're bigger and he was bigger than every corner that he went against in the last three weeks, act like the bigger guy. That's it. Is that that's all I'm asking for?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:29

Is was that like the consensus opinion about AJ Brown when he came to the Patriots that he was gonna be like the fast deep threat? Like I personally just thought he would be the bigger body that they kind of needed on the offense. But were people were people expecting him to be like a Randy Moss like Spencer?

SPEAKER_05 1:03:46

I'm so glad.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:47

You decided to not sign digs.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:50

Right. Literally, they didn't sign digs because of it. In joint practices, he ran a post 75% of the time, and he I think he dropped two balls in three joint practices. He outran, he dogged everyone down the field for the ball. And it was just him and Drake over the back shoulder.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:06

I mean, he made fucking stud. Just this, just right away. Like Hertz basically had the option for two seasons in Philadelphia to not play quarterback, to just launch the ball up to on easy mode to the sidelines whenever he wanted. It was the ultimate bailout that yeah, yeah. I did uh to answer your question, yes, I did. I expected him to be not Randy Moss, but I expected him to be a top five wide receiver uh with Drake May. I thought I thought that's what was gonna happen. I thought, wow, he's never he's never had a guy who can throw a fucking deep ball this good. And and Hertz's deep ball is his best weapon. And I was like, you know, I was like, Drake May's got arguably the best deep ball in the NFL, and AJ Brown's arguably one of at least, if not if not the best deep ball receiver in the NFL. I was like, this is a match made in heaven. That's what I thought genuinely. And I still think that.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:51

I guess I think that's gonna stop. Very low expectations for the uh for the miners. I just used in Philadelphia. I just I'm just like so used to like wide receivers in New England just being so meh, like since Randy Moss. Like watching Randy Moss go for 23 touchdowns in 2007 was just unbelievable. So after that, it's just like, oh, cool. Like Edelman's our best receiver that we can watch. And he's just good, he was great, but he wasn't a deep threat, and he certainly wasn't big. Uh so it's just watching Patriots teams and receivers and watching them well, especially draft crappy receivers, too, is the other thing. So I just I guess I personally had low expectations, but I guess if everyone else is like, hey, he's gonna be the deep ball threat, then fuck fuck me.

Michael Marcangelo 1:05:31

Well, you're you they were expecting like the comp that I would make now is that they were expecting TO and Philly, and they're getting is what they're getting is Tio and Cincy. And that's that's that's not good.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:43

I think it's not gonna be give him a second. Give him a second. You gotta you guys gotta give him a second. God damn it.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:49

That actually just hurt my feelings. Guys, we should really clip my reaction from the week one power rankings while I'm live watching his injury. Like, swear to God, like we gave out the suicide hotline number. Like, I I I quit football in all forms.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:03

And no one called him a pussy, even though he came back in like three or four weeks, and it looked like his season was over. It's so weird.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:07

Yeah, well, first of all, his nails weren't painted. Second of all, he didn't go.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:10

Yeah.

Michael Marcangelo 1:06:11

The fucking uh the I just want to just one last reference, and then we can kind of wrap this up. Uh you all made that face at the TO and Cinsi thing. He caught 950 yards and six touchdowns the one year with Ocho. Like it wasn't a bad year. Did he? But actually, but that yeah, it was Carson Palmer, Ocho Cinco, and T O.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:30

I'm not gonna play this game with you. You know what you said.

Michael Marcangelo 1:06:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:34

Okay. Uh I think well, I want I can I at least get TO in Dallas. Like, I get you are fine. We're not gonna get TO until can I get some other form of TO? This is stupid, man. Come on. It's not fair. I think I think listen, I think.

Michael Marcangelo 1:06:47

TO on dancing with the stars. We gotta give it time. Uh but what I would just say is that if we traded a first overall, like an uh a first round draft pick for you, and your body isn't allowing you to be the speedy guy that you want to be, then transition and be the big body guy. That's on him. That is on him to do that. Make yourself useful. Anything else you guys want to talk about before we get to talk about?

SPEAKER_05 1:07:12

Is Roman Dunze actually sponsored by Spider Attack? Because that catch now it's driving me nuts. Because you guys have your guy, we don't have our guys. Bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:19

Rome is arguably like coming under more scrutiny than uh from Bears fans than AJ Brown is from from Pat's fans. I mean, like people are really out on him after that push-off and drop. And then like he made a great catch, but it's like we kind of expected more from him since he got drafted. I'm my honest take on it right now is I'm really glad we got Luther Burden. Like, I'm really glad. He's so good. I mean, I think he'll I think he'll find I think he'll I think Rome will be good. I think that the issue with Rome is that he was a really great contestant catch guy, and he doesn't really have the speed or size to be put himself in positions to be a contested catch guy in the NFL. I think in in in college his numbers were amazing in that regard. Um, because he's got great hands. The thing is he's got great fucking hands. And I think I think um I think his athleticism and speed and size are a little bit of a concern, and I think that we need to turn him into something. You know, I think he needs to be a really specific weapon. He's not a number one guy. Uh like not an out and out number one guy, I don't think. But I I honestly think that Ben Johnson thinks that Colson Loveland is his number one guy in his head. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:21

He is. You know. Son of a bitch.

Trade Rumors And Final Rants

SPEAKER_05 1:08:24

Guys, what do you feel about uh the rumors about Jonathan Taylor? I was making a move for him. I think that's stupid personally. But what do you guys think?

Michael Marcangelo 1:08:30

Don't don't don't overspend for a fucking running back. Does he play OLED?

SPEAKER_05 1:08:34

Dude, exactly. I swear to God, Zach, I said the exact same thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:38

You don't need him. You're fine on uh with actual running backs. Also, if we're doing a little tiny button on trade deadline, I just want it on the record into a microphone that I know Ryan Poles is gonna push out and like not do what he should do and like go and get a fucking defensive tackle. Go and get that guy from the fucking Titans, the number one, like actually on the block guy. I know what it costs a first round pick, I would do it today. Which means that you think he's going to be in this.

Michael Marcangelo 1:08:59

You're just putting the opposite into existence.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:01

I don't I don't. I I think he always um he always is really worried about like looking like he's out over his skis. That's his big worry as a GM. And I think that he's it's weird because he's done a lot of really good things. He like didn't overthink drafting Caleb Williams. Like, thank God. Um, you know, I think he's found a lot of really good players, but then he all and like I we have a really good punter, but like he's a fourth-round pick. That's kind of crazy. You know what I mean? Like, I don't, I, I don't know.

Michael Marcangelo 1:09:26

Um I just I would like to go and get some some D D line help, really, but really I'd rather I'd rather uh get Josh Downs from the from the Colts, to be honest with you guys. Like, yeah, just give me more hands. Because honestly, if if the if the the method's gonna be now, like uh our offensive line's bad, but it's it's not bad to the point where it's affecting Drake right now. It's it's it's killed the run game. So if if that's what we're gonna do, then just overload on on pass catchers. That's that's what we need to do.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:53

I agree.

Michael Marcangelo 1:09:54

I no. You need bodies on the offensive line. Playing that. They have bodies, but they they don't have an they don't have enough to uh to formulate a good run game. And it just so happens that all you need to do is average like 80 yards a game on the ground. It doesn't need to be 80 80 yards for one particular person, and it you you can have a balanced offense. Like you just you just fucking can. Uh so I would I would just say like put all the pressure on Drake. Put the fucking pressure.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:21

80 compared to like 350 doesn't really sound that balanced away.

Michael Marcangelo 1:10:25

80 compared to 350. Like you're saying balance, bro.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:28

Like 350 passing yards compared to 80 running rush yards, it's not really balance.

Michael Marcangelo 1:10:33

No, no. I just said all you need all you need is 80 rushing yards per game to have a balanced offense because then the the the defense still has to bite on the run. That's all you that's really all you need to do, is prove that you can actually do it.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:43

Pull the bl the block the linebackers into the box. That's the whole game.

Michael Marcangelo 1:10:47

That's all you gotta do. That's all you gotta fucking do. Um thanks, guys. I really enjoyed this fourth person episode of MTV Boston. For Matty Wilcox, Zach Gray, TK Sizzle. This is Mike Markangelo. We'll talk to you next week.