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Jan. 20, 2022

New England 2021 season autopsy, What went wrong in Dallas, and Divisional Weekend matchups preview

New England 2021 season autopsy, What went wrong in Dallas, and Divisional Weekend matchups preview

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This week, Mike and Joe perform an Autopsy on the beatdown of the New England Patriots by the Buffalo Bills during Super Wild Card weekend. and discuss whether the 2021 Season was a success for the New England Patriots.

Next, we discuss if we were right to make the comparison in the preseason between Matthew Judon and former Patriots linebacker and big free-agent splash Adalius Thomas, considering how their careers have paralleled. (Episode 78 with Boston Herald's Karen Guregian
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Next, we discuss what really went wrong for the Dallas Cowboys in the Wild-Card matchup with the San Francisco 49ers, specifically, Mike McCarthy's poor game management that led to the Cowboys exit

Also discussed are our predictions and breakdown for the NFL Divisional Weekend matchups, with the Cincinnati Bengals taking on the number one seed Tennessee Titans, with a returning Derrick Henry, the San Francisco 49ers taking on the number one seed Green Bay Packers, Matt Stafford and Odell Beckham Jr. taking on Tom Brady and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and Josh Allen and the Buffalo Bills heading to Kansas City to take on the Chiefs and Patrick Mahomes.

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Hosts: Mike Marcangelo, Joe Malkin
Producer: Craig D'Alessandro
Tweet your questions to @MTPshow with hashtag #askMTP, email us at Craig@MTPshow.com, or leave us a voicemail on our website to be featured on the show!

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Transcript
Michael Marcangelo:

Welcome into missing the point I am Michael Marcangela joined alongside by Broadway Joe Malkin been a long time since I've said that. And today I think what we're gonna do Joe's we're gonna we're gonna do an autopsy on the Patriots the season, that abomination of a game that happened on Saturday night. Talk a little bit about Dallas and the 49er's and that shit show as well, and then preview a divisional divisional weekend. But before we get into anything specific, what were your overall thoughts of the quality of football that was played last week? It's super wildcard weekend the first weekend ever that there was a Monday Night Football wildcard game? No, no pleasantries, huh, good and you.So the super wildcard weekend which I thought was an interesting name for it I saw what they were trying to do Super Bowl weekend blah blah and all this other stuff. I get it. I honestly I loved watching every single game and even the Patriots game and I'll explain that why we when we get into that game, but man I It was exciting. It was fun. It had a little bit of everything you know for we saw a second year your quarterback might as well be a rookie since he went out with a bad knee injury last year and Joe Burrow submit himself as as an NFL quarterback. I mean, this guy's the real deal. He's got the attitude. He's got the the intestinal fortitude to play in the NFL. They do need to put an offensive line in front of them. You know, it'll be interesting. The Titans are the number one the Packers are the number one in the NFC the 49ers I loved watching the 49ers win, I think it would have been that way regardless of who they played. But I love that they went into at&t Stadium and beat the Cowboys on their own. The 49ers are fun to watch Kyle Shanahan is a real deal, NFL head coach, you know, and I think we all kind of knew that already. I think he the way he carries himself in the way he treats that team in San Francisco. He's a good drafter he's a good developer of talent, you know, and I I think I have some some other feelings on that. But we'll get to that when we get to the Dallas game. loved to watch a Matt Stafford your guy won his first playoff game. He looks. I mean, he looked like he was like he finally had a coach. He looked. He looked like you finally had a coach that knew what he was doing. And you know what I? I'll say it right here right now. I've said it already. Last week. I was wrong about Odell Beckham Jr. and his dad might be the next the best marketing professional in the world for how he he miss handily mishandled the situation with his son and Cleveland. He's been nothing but a model citizen for the Rams. And I don't think it would have been the same had he gone to other places, including New England. I think he's where he should be right now. Tampa, whatever, Tampa's Tampa that team just they just look good. They look good. And the Chiefs. The Chiefs played Big Ben and his swan song. And i i I know the overall overarching feelings on Big Ben on this show and how we all feel about him and his off field incidents and everything. This was probably his last game in the NFL. And if we don't take into account the off field stuff, the guy's a Hall of Famer, and he had an incredible football career, and played for one of the best franchise in the NFL. But I think it was only right that the Chiefs won to go on to play the Bills at home this weekend. Yeah, so we don't need to get into the Big Ben stuff. I we I think we've done a really good job covering that. I'll just say that I thought it was very poetic that he was forcefully and unconsentingly screwed out of that game. That's what he deserves. So yeah, maybe he's all a favor if all you can do is look at stats. I understand that people can. I can't but yeah, he's gonna be a Hall of Famer, my my overarching sentiments for the weekend, though. I loved it. I loved the two games on Saturday, the three on Sunday, and then the Monday night game, I thought that they did a really good job promoting it. Some of the games didn't really live up to the hype. Obviously, the Patriots game was the one that we talked about. And for those of you that are watching this on YouTube, you might notice a new accessory on my face because I firmly believe that God is taking away my vision. For what having watched that game for three hours on Saturday. These are pennants as the Catholics would say. But I thought that the debacle in Dallas man if there was any team that you could predict such an unpredictable clusterfuck at the end it's a Mike McCarthy coach team. And we'll we'll go into that a little bit more but no I thought about the games really entertaining. There was the blowout you know the the Bucs Eagles game that I think that was what we thought it was going to be the only shot that the Eagles had word were to come out like really strong and they just they just couldn't do it looks like the Tampa Bay defense turns it on. So let's not let's not waste any time. Let's just get let's just get right in that. Okay, so the Patriots and the Bills, wildcard weekend, we thought we all had mentioned right? That going into this game, they needed to do as much as they could to replicate their success in Buffalo five weeks ago, then they needed to really control the pace and the clock. And they didn't do any of those things. The fact that you had a Bill Belichick led defense again, because I don't think that that his that his son is calling the shots. Although, after what I saw, I kind of hope that that's the truth. The that's actually the truth. The fact that buffalo had seven straight drives that ended in a touchdown. That's embarrassing. That that's never happened in the history of any Bill Belichick coach team, whether he was a defensive coordinator, or or anything. So yeah, 47-17 was a final score. If you can believe it. I think you agree with this show. It wasn't even that close.

Joe Malkin:

No, it wasn't close. And this. I look at this game from a lot of perspectives. And I, I want to because we're primarily New England podcast, I like to look at this game from the point of view of the Buffalo Bills. And now a look inside my personal life. Saturday night, I went with a couple of friends to the casino. We watched the first half of the game at the casino, and we said, You know what? We're done. Like, I can't do this anymore. And driving home, listen to it on the radio, I finally called my buddy who I had gone to the casino with and we drove separately and I said, we got to stop for a beer. I I can't not watch the end of this game. And I don't want to do it at all. So we met up for a beer and and in the first half of that game. My thoughts were very much Wow, this sucks. Look at how poorly they're playing. And then the second half, it switched to look at how perfect the Buffalo Bills are, are planning, coaching, playing and executing this football game. They messed with Bill Belichick for 60 minutes, and they never stopped. They they didn't relent, they didn't pull their foot off the gas until the clock hits zero in the fourth quarter. And we saw that when they threw a touchdown pass to an offensive lineman that put a cherry on top and I, as a Patriots fan. This is gonna sound bad, but as a football fan, I loved every single second of that shellacking. And it's weird to come out like out loud. But for some reason, I enjoyed it. And I think I've come up with the reasons why but go ahead.

Michael Marcangelo:

Well, I was gonna say, if you just look at this game as an independent football fan, right? Or we talked about that last game in Buffalo word, but you know, it was it was, it was BDE by by Belichick, right? He just walked in and said, Hey, what I'm going to do is I'm just going to run the ball down your throat 45 times stop me. So what what McDermott and Josh Allen said this time is, hey, we're just gonna throw on you. Stop Us. You couldn't do it. So to see the pendulum swing at it, like so dramatically and in what was such a short amount of time. But then, if you think back to that game, the Foxborough the paid the Bills haven't punted against the Patriots since Buffalo. So, I don't know, I don't know if they walked in there if the Patriots walked in there and thinking that they that they should be confident if they did, I honestly don't know why that would have been the case. I think walking into that game, they lost three of their last four, which is, again, one of the most un-Bill Belichick-ian things that we've ever seen. I mean, the thing, I think it's happened once from that 2018 year, where they had a collapse in December, but again, you know, they had Brady, they had Edelman, they had Gronk, so that they turned it around. But this game, I one thing I want I do want to say is, I don't blame Mac, I thought I actually think Mac did. Mac did pretty well, in the sense that he like he showed me that he that he's completely bought in. And you saw him in the fourth quarter when the game was way out of hand running downfield to lead a block. Like that's just not something that a quarterback would often do in this league. And you know that that Micah Hyde interception was just a perfect, a perfect play. Now, Nelson Agholor should have turned around and made a play on the ball. He did it. And he was in the right spot. But I thought the one bright spot in this game was obviously I think it's still I think it's still Mac, I think another year in the system. He's going to do a lot better. So to you know, take a page out of your book. I was I'll say it again, I've said it before I was wrong about Mac Jones. I think him being the starter put us in a good place. But I think we were both wrong about this defense. I think we were in to cover Mac a little bit you know It's interesting looking at his numbers, if we will all remember in that game in Buffalo, he only threw three passes, completed two for 19 yards. So basically in a 16 game season, Mack Jones threw for 3800 yards, 22 touchdowns, 13 interceptions, and made the playoffs on a 10-7 17 team as you mentioned, we're what the B ills did is they just threw all over the Patriots and Devin Singletary figured out how to be a running back the second half of the season, which, you know, it really started out I don't want to say after the first Patriots game in Buffalo, but he was kind of leading up to it, and then really chugged along helped my fantasy team down the stretch. But what I saw Saturday night, from the Buffalo Bills to kind of revert away from from your segue here, but before we die well before we dive into the Patriots, defense and the other any other questions we have to ask you about the Patriots. What I saw Saturday was the Buffalo Bills transition from the Little Sisters of the Poor, to the hero for unseating the villain, and they will quickly become the villain. I set it in the preseason that teams a wagon, and I thought I was going to be wrong. I was right. Yeah, I was 100%. Right that team, Josh Allen is a is a very good and he makes bad decisions from time to time, but he really cut down on those this year. He's a real NFL quarterback and Sean McDermott while I think sometimes he lets his emotions get the best of him is a top tier NFL head coach without a doubt. Yeah, top tier NFL head coach and I, I think a lot of you know, we talked about it a lot here in New England with with Bill where, you know, we've seen it before, where he goes out and gets revenge on other teams. The way he always coaches his team against the New York Jets the way he always coaches his team against each other certain coaches or certain teams or certain players, Sean McDermott is now doing that with the Patriots and saying, I don't care what the score is, we are going to run it up on you. And we are not going to stop until the clock hits zero, or stop us. And I love that about the Buffalo Bills. I think when you have the chance to to make a divisional opponent realize in the most important game of the year that they are not in the same class as you. You have to do it. And the bills did that. And I listen, I thought that the game plan was perfect. From McDermott and the bills, I thought, you know, Josh Allen 21/25, five touchdowns. It's absolutely insane what he did. And to that point, it, it leads me to believe that what we saw during that seven-game winning streak, and even what we saw in that in that 50 burger that they dropped on Jacksonville. It's just the same thing that we saw back in 2019. When they started out 8-0, like that defense was, was was playing at a higher level than they had previously. But they were I mean, they were paper defense. They weren't going against really any good quarterbacks minus Justin Herbert. And I think, here's my hot take. I think they bought it. I think they believe their own hype.

Joe Malkin:

They've done it before.

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, well, they but they always had that one thing on offense that could help you overcome it, right. And now, I think there they find themselves in a situation where they think that they can no show a game and still win. Turns out, this version of the Patriots can win, they no show a game, they lose by 20 or 30. That's like it, they're just not that good enough anymore, to be able to dog a game and still be competitive. And I have a bunch of things that I want to talk about on the defensive side of the ball. So I think we should just stick with this game right now. And then we can talk a little bit about what we think they're going to do in the offseason before we move on to the rest of the schedule. But Devin McCourty he he's, I don't know if he's out of position more than he used to be or if he just can't cover up for his age anymore.

Joe Malkin:

You remember the first year when when they switched him from corner to safety?

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah.

Joe Malkin:

And he had a really, really tough time transitioning. And a lot of people were quick to say, Oh, he can play safety, which for those of us for everybody. I mean, they're two different positions on the field, or two different positions and X's and O's. So and he struggled with that. I think he's struggling again. And I think he's getting too old. I think there's, I think he, I think he's done. I think he's done. I think this is gonna be his last year or he'll come back next year and be a mentor. I don't know what for the younger safeties because Kyle Dugger can sure as hell play, you know, there's there's some guys on that defense that can play. I'm with you on Devin McCourty. And I would also throw Dont'a Hightower into this. Yeah conversation. And I had this conversation with Rayshawn a few weeks ago. And and Ray was not to call him out when he can't defend himself but Ray was basically saying, you know, he's coming off an injury. That's not That's it, but he's always been coming off an injury and we kind of compared him as a collective to Jerod Mayo towards the end of his career where he's just lost enough of a step and they were very different linebackers, but he's just lost enough of the step where he just he just can't keep up anymore. And he'll make he'll make plays from time to time because he's still a very intelligent smart and and quick thinking football player that's, that's your Dont'a Hightower is but he's not. He's not there physically anymore. I think humanimal courtier kind of in the same class in this conversation. I think they would both be better served retiring at this point, although you lose a lot of your veteran leadership. Because I also think you're going to lose Matthew Slater at the end of this year because I think he might retire. I mean, this is going to be a year where we see even more youth I mean, we've we've seen it already right? We've seen the Duggers take over we've seen the Mac Jones take over we've seen the the Christian Barmore take over on defense. We've got three two young backs because there's still Brandon Bolden back there, James White, if he can recover and come back, we're gonna see more youth and we might see some more of these 10-7 teams, but I think somebody else that's lost a step might get I know I keep expanding on this, but I this is kind of the conversation. I think you're looking for here is I think Bill Belichick lost a step. I think I think his game is too conservative for the style of play in the NFL at this point. And I think that that I think it carried him as far as it. It could we all know the defensive side of the ball. He's always been one to two draft the prototypical linebacker and the Ted Johnson's the the Willie McGinest The which he didn't draft, but he inherited Tedy Bruschi, who he inherited he loves those guys, because of their because of their size. And he can't do that anymore. The game is too fast, especially with the dolphins and the bills running what they have out and I wouldn't sleep on Robert Saleh in New York, either I think he can turn that team around pretty quick. I think Zach Wilson can be a good NFL quarterback. So point point of this is just like Devin Mccourty. I think I think Bill's lost a step. And I don't think he's going anywhere. But I we can talk about this when we get to the to the where do they go from here? Segment?

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, I think I I actually 100% agree with you. i The one thing that I I don't know. I don't know if I disagree. But I want to talk a little a little bit more about it is I think I don't think he's coaching has lost his step. But I think you're right, you hit the nail on the head where his his he's he's still just trying to drag Lawrence Taylor, right, that same framework. And then like what you said that the Tedy Bruschi's, Ted Johnson's, and that'll win you regular season games against bad teams. That style will still work. But in a playoff situation where Bill Belichick's defense always predicates himself on, on having a script and just following the orders and doing your job, right. We're all here that do your job. Josh Allen doesn't follow a script. When things break down, he's able to iterate on it, and then what? And then you get and then you get situations where Devin Mccourty is maybe just a little, maybe six months too old, to catch up to do where he was supposed to be or where he would have been two years ago. Dont'a Hightower. Again, he right now he looks a lot like Jerod. Mayo. And I listen, I'm not here to to bash Jerod Mayo, Jerod Mayo was always a guy that you could count on to have 100 tackles in a season, but you couldn't remember one of them. Dont'a Hightower has been has made some some of the most impactful plays over the last 10 years for the New England Patriots. And he just doesn't have it anymore. So you're right. But I do think, not to you know not not to segue into this into this next segment yet. I do think that if there is a mass exodus due to age, that might force Bill's hand to think about what type of players he needs to draft, because there aren't going to be those, you know, those six foot five or six foot three 275 pound linebackers in the first or second round, and when he went when Belichick picks a defensive player in the first round 90% of the time, they're a winner. I mean, he knows how to grade first round defensive talent, stay the fuck away from wide receivers, but he knows he knows how to draft first round talent. So do you have any closing thoughts on this game before we move to what I think is going to be the most most entertaining discussion that we're gonna have

Joe Malkin:

I look at this game and I see what it was and what the Patriots were. And I, you know, everybody wanted to make the I don't want to say comparison but the likeness between this team and the 2001 team. And I just, I just think in this game leading up to it, there was a lot of, there was a there was too many hands in the cookie jar from somewhere somehow and the way this game went down, it had an air about it from when it from the from the opening kickoff, that it was just gonna go the Bill's way. And it was a four and a half point spread going in. You're in that stadium. I don't know if that stadium has ever been that loud. Bill's fans are the best fans. I mean, they are. They love their guys, and they're loud. And they are rowdy. But man, that stadium with a rookie quarterback in there. I mean, it. There's a reason why a rookie quarterback is number one in the Super Bowl. And that's it right there. I just I love the way the bills played that game.

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, I think my final my final thoughts on the game was it felt a lot like the 2009 wild card game against the ravens, except it felt like in that situation. The Ravens caught them off guard with that 83 yard run by Ray Rice on this situation. They weren't caught off guard, they just weren't prepared. They just did it. It's like, what do you do when you find out that you're not good enough and you're in your arms just aren't long enough to box with God. That's what was happening and in that game, and no matter what they did, and by the way, I do hope that Stephen Belichick was calling that game. Because the fact that there were no, no changes, and no adjustments made on the defensive side of the ball that entire time. When after the third series. I could have told you what was going to happen. Everyone knew what was going to happen. Josh Allen was just going to stand back or there. There could be you know, that player on the first drive, where he had 10 seconds to throw it. 10 seconds in the NFL. Now, he wouldn't stand in the pocket by a leader just just standing there. I get it. He was flushed out. But the fact that you spent so much money in this offseason to improve your team, and the most pivotal purchase in the offseason was Matthew Judon. Someone to go in there and disrupt quarterbacks, and he couldn't do it. Or when you needed the most and down the stretch. He couldn't do it. Which leads me to

Joe Malkin:

you're gonna go you're gonna go you're already.

Michael Marcangelo:

Oh, yeah, yeah, I can't I can't resist.

Joe Malkin:

All right, go ahead

Michael Marcangelo:

a little while back on the show, you can check the show notes. So we last spoke to Karen Guregian by right before the season started. I you know, I've been preaching and asking all the time about I need I just need to know that Matthew Judon Isn't the new Adalius Thomas . i Because, and I'll give you a little bit of context before we go into it. But when you think about Adalius Thomas and you think about Matt Judon, they came from a Baltimore scheme where they weren't scripted on what to do, they were literally put in a game to, to cause to create havoc, right into cause chaos. So typically, when a player like that I'm not saying that he's undiscipline, I hope that you don't that nobody takes it that way. But when you rely more on instinct to make an impact in the game, and then you and you come to work for a guy that you know, a guy like Belichick who wants to wants you to do exactly what He tells you to do. Because if everyone does that the defense will be perfect. At some times, there's an inflection point. And I think that we hit the inflection point in week 13, which you done. Now, I've heard reports that he's that he was hurt, he was injured. Great. If you go back and you read and you read articles, he's always hurt or injured around week 13 of in NFL season. There there have been rumblings that when he's when the team's not doing well, or he feels like he's not being utilized to the best of his ability. He gets a little bit less engaged. Now, again, I don't I don't know that he was dogging it. I've maybe he just ran out of gas. Maybe that's all true. But when I said I hope that he's not the next Adalius Thomas . He isn't Adalius Thomas was better. Adalius Thomas in his two years prior to coming to New England and in his first year in New England. So I did this little stack comparison, right? I was really juiced up for this. So we're going to compare 2019 through 2021 Judon. And so 2005 to 2007 Adalius Thomas Cool,

Joe Malkin:

ok

Michael Marcangelo:

games. They both they both, they both averaged right around 36...36 games during that period of time. Pretty good. tackles,Adalius Thomas had 193 Judon had 113 Over the span of three seasons. Let's talk about sacks. Judon 28 A lot of all that is a 12 and a half this year. Adalius Thomas 26 and a half forced fumbles, Adalius Thomas six Judon four interceptions. And they'll use Thomas 4, 2 of, which returned for touchdowns. Matthew Judon Zero. So what you're seeing here is that during the course of this time over the average game, Adalius Thomas was would account for four tackles. For solo tackles. One QB hit. And at least I think he averaged 0.7 sacks. Judon is 2.4 tackles. Point Yeah, about half a sack, but is forcing way less fumbles and isn't as impactful in the last two years of his stint in Baltimore, and the First Year New England 2000 The reason why I bring this up, hey, you have you saying like, Why do you care? Like, it's you know, those are pretty good stats. Adalius Thomas had a really good 2007 for the New England Patriots. He was actually the best defensive player on that team in the playoffs in that run. In those four in those three postseason games in 2007. Adalius Thomas had two and a half sacks averaged five tackles again, in his one playoff game this year. And in the end in the three that he had with Baltimore, Judon had three solo tackles total and forced and have one sack. So I think what I'm telling you here is, if the cliff is the same for for Judon, that it was for Adalius Thomas , this is a bad contract. It's a really bad contract, and all the things that I was worried about at the beginning of the season. Maybe it took a little while for them to for them to manifest. But oh boy, did they, and you're your most expensive purchase on defense since Stephon Gilmore did absolutely nothing for you and down the stretch, and when you needed him most in a postseason game. So I just wanted to take this time to most humbly and graciously say that I was right.

Joe Malkin:

Mike, would you consider yourself a hypochondriac?

Michael Marcangelo:

No,

Joe Malkin:

you wouldn't consider because right now, I think you're being a hypochondriac when it comes to these two players, I think because you have it in your mind that you made this comparison that because of the way the end of this first season went with Judon on here, I think you're you're automatically saying because there is a comparison here. They both Yeah, they, I mean, we can we can honestly say that, that Judon was one of the best defensive players for the New England Patriots this year, even if it was just weeks one through 13. Yep. Right, Adalius Thomas was one of the best players on the New England defense in his year 30. Season in 2007. Both of those years for those two guys respectively, fell off from their previous year in Baltimore. And then this is where this is where I this is where I'm kind of agreeing with you. If if if he fall if Judon follows the same trend as dahlias, Thomas, then yes, in two years time. I will say to you, bad contract. You're right. But right now uh, right. Right now, I just don't I don't think you're I don't I don't think you're right because of the style of team that he came in to. Matthew Judon is expected to be the guy when a dahlias Thomas came into that team. They had to he was he wasn't a cornerstone of that team. He was added in as a major piece as Matthew Judon on his but Matthew Judon right now is expected to be the cornerstone of that defense. Adalius Thomas came in, and the expectations are high here in New England anyway. And this is a conversation we had with Karen as well. Can he can he handle the pressure of the of the Boston, New England media? Can he do that? So far? So good. So far, so good. He's been pretty gracious with the media. I think he's been a little I think there's been a little animosity in his voice towards the towards the coaching staff and the players. I think there has been that I think there's a short short form of this. I think there's a little bit of Adalius Thomas in Matthew Judon. But I I think you're being a hypochondriac when it comes to this comparison right now. Because because you just you, you have a cough and you think it's a cold.

Michael Marcangelo:

It's COVID By the way, not just cool, but so I understand what you're saying. But here's where I'm where I'm coming from. We we only we don't have many comparisons, like direct comparisons to make it a situation where Belichick will do something, we'll do almost the exact same thing, in a situation that turned out not to have worked out the first time. Adalius Thomas , and Judon are very comparable players in the sense that the majority of their success that they that they had in Baltimore, they had because they, they did go off script, they played more on instinct, they, they made the they made the call on the field to make that play. And what we've learned, you know, based off of all this unprecedented access that Belichick has given us over the last four or five years, is that he really does preach, I don't need anyone to be a hero, if you all are, where I tell you to be, things will work out. So sooner or later, my argument would just be that, if you know that you are you were brought in here to be the guy. Why would you then once you're here, be told that you're only going to do what what I tell you to do, right? Why did you pay him all that money to come in? And if it was based off of him creating so much havoc, and being such a great incentive player to really just tell him to just know, run through the gaps? And, and do this and do that now, I know Trust me, I understand why Belichick does it. Because if you look at the Baltimore game, or in all the games that that they lost, Judon would over pursue the quarterback. Right? So he would always give them a way out, they could just step up and run. Belichick's defense is predicated on the fact that you just you stick the stick to the corners, you don't want to, you know, you'll get outside, and then you can prevent a big play. So there there are pitfalls with with Judon's style of play. Now, I don't know which one's better, right. I just know, Belichick's won a lot of Super Bowls. That's all I know. And I think you're originally one of the points that you made, about how they all fell off after their last season to Baltimore. Judon had six and a half sacks last year 12 and a half this year. So he got better for the first 13 games of this year.

Joe Malkin:

In that category. He absolutely got but I just mean overall, if you look at the overall statline and there was some metric, which there probably is, there has to be nowadays. I think they both kind of timed it. There's comparisons when when they move to New England from Baltimore, and that could be a bill thing it could we all know that John Harbaugh is much more of a let the dogs off the leash and see what they can do type of coach where Bill is more like let's hold the reins let's let's analyze let's game plan and then execute. And I don't know. I I go back and forth on this all the time on what the motivation was to spend money. This past offseason from Bill. Was there pressure from Robert Kraft Was it him that finally decided hey, these guys are all out on the market. I'm gonna go get them. I think overall, I think Judon is a is a hit so far. I think Kendrick Bourne is a hit. I think Hunter Henry is a hit. And right now, Nelson Agholor , Jonnu Smith and Jalen Mills are missus.

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah.

Joe Malkin:

And and I look at the quality of the players. And, you know, I hope from I don't want to say this from a Bill Belichick crony standpoint. I just want to say it from a Patriots fan standpoint of I hope this season was more about learning what he had then attempting to win the Super Bowl. You know what I mean? Because there's teams there's there's teams that that tank, more so in the NBA than in the NFL, but the Jets very easily could have tanked this year. And you could tell with the amount of flight that that they added the end of the year, they weren't going to take tank. I really wish Miami kept Brian Flores because Bill Belichick is in trouble already as it is in this in this division. Because Buffalo's really good Miami's on the up, and the Jets are gonna fall behind. I know the Jets seemed like a cursed franchise, but I sometimes wonder and hope or wonder what the motivation behind the signings was, and spending that money and hope that it was. These are four year deals we know where we're getting a rookie quarterback, this is what we're attempting to do. Let's see what we have. And then in years two and three will move forward. And then in year four, we'll see what we're doing. Like he's clearly it's clearly a rebuild period for the Patriots, and I know that they finish 10-7 and a lot of that goes back to Bill Belichick, but a lot of that goes back to the game plan the players that he puts on the field.

Michael Marcangelo:

Here's the thing though, Joe, I because I think what you just said is important and I want to I want to talk a little bit about it. I do think that regardless of whether he'll ever admit it or not having the guy that you walk out the door go go down and win a Super Bowl in his first year without you and you go seven and nine regardless of the situation, let's let's just say they're all identical. That adds a little bit of pressure. And then on top of that, is, you know, there's always been this, this common belief in the NFL, you can't rebuild the team through free agency, you have to rebuild it to the draft. That's true. But our biggest what we thought were our biggest glaring needs going into the season because remember, we thought we still had Stephon Gilmore along with with JC Jackson, right on defense. We didn't know how old the secondary was was going to get so quickly. Our biggest needs are on offense. Bill can't draft offensive players aside from quarterbacks. I'll tell you right now he's hit on more quarterbacks and he's ever missed on you. Can you just go down the list? Brady's an easy one, right? But if you think I mean, you think about Matt Cassell you think about Jacoby Brisset. Jimmy Garoppolo. Those are all hits. Ryan Mallet it was a big bust. But again, I think you can trust him in a top in a top three round position with what with the quarterback? And and even running back. I think, you know, Ray and I went through this a couple a couple of weeks ago, he said on most of his running backs, but there were glaring need was was was pass catchers, and he can't draft those. So I think he I think what he did there, rebuilding the team of rebuilding the offense through through free agency made a lot of sense. And listen, the Judon thing, it might it might turn out that I'm unequivocal, wrongly if he goes on for the next three years of his contract to, to average 10 sacks a year? Sure. I'll listen, we'll still be on here. That'll be episode 44. And I'll be here to tell you that I was that I was I was wrong about that. But I do think that there is something that to, to kind of peel back the onion here. You can point to I'd say like 15 plays throughout the course of the season where it was, it was apparent that Judon did not do what he was told to do. And it did not result in a positive way for the Patriots. There was another guy that's actually selling the team in his third stint back that is known for doing that. Jamie Collins, Bill shipped him out twice. So I think Bill's tied to Judon. I don't know if his coaching, if his coaching style is going to change to allow Judon to to flourish more. But I do think it is interesting that the minute that they get punched in the face by Indy, he just disappeared. I mean, he was gone. And I think that might tie back into what I what I originally said is that they bought into their own hype. Right. And I think we all did, too. They were playing so well on defense, and it looked like that that could be a way for them to make a deeper run to the postseason. But I think the Judon, the Judon on point I really wanted to talk about, but then before we transition to, you know, what do they do now, which again, will be a good segment, I think we learned a lot about the mental fortitude of this team. With with the exception of a few. I mean, I think like I said Mac Jones, Damien Harris, they're bought in Kendrick Bourne bought in Jacobi Meyers hope he stays bought in Hunter Henry, this is the first game this first year in his professional career that he was available to play the entire season. So clearly, he's bought in. And you can't get much worse than Jonnu Smith did this year. So hopefully, that that that's that that's good for us moving forward. But aside from the the players that I just mentioned, you know, Hightower McCourty for different reasons, but I think, you know, Judon I think they have to take a real serious look at themselves and wonder if this is what they signed up for. Now, one of the only one of them is under contract for a longer period of time. And is he going to, you know, conform to the system, or will the system conform to him.

Joe Malkin:

McCourty, he's done it that's been that I said this a little while he's done it. He's floated retirement before he floated it out to the 2019 season. I think he's I think he's cooked. Thank you for your service. Thank you for your time here in New England. He's he's one of the best ever put the uniform on. And he's one of the most loyal to ever put the uniform on. One guy you forgot to mention in your in your body is Rhamondre Stevenson.

Michael Marcangelo:

Oh, yeah.

Joe Malkin:

Who Ray and I have been drooling over all season because this kid is just really freaking good. I think Jakob Johnson bought in I think Trent Brown came back and bought in I think there's a lot of guys that are buying in Mike I do I think I think the the the mental fortitude we saw diminish, was after that Indy game. I don't think it was just Matthew jutaan. I think there was a lot of air lead out of the balloon that is the New England Patriots. And I don't know that that's up I don't want to say a bad thing. But you know that that's, that's fine. You know, it just it's the way the team is because like you said earlier, they don't have that guy that was there to pick them up every step of the way. And Mac Jones isn't that personality yet. He's never going to be Tom Brady. He's never ever ever going to be Tom Brady. But after this season, all I need him all I want to see him do and all we all should want to see him do is be Mac Jones. Yep, beat Mac Jones, which is that kid that kid smart. He has no problem laying his body out for a block. There's been a couple really funny blocks during the year with him. He's He's fun to watch. He's not a statue like Tom Brady. i That's part of the thing that I like about him is he clearly has fun out there. When Brian Hoyer threw the touchdown pass to Jacobi Meyers, against who that was out against. We're gonna list it was in Garbage Time. And the first guy down there was Mac Jones off the bench. And it just, you can just see that as a rookie. He's bought in, he's not afraid to get in the face of his ticket of his teammates. He's not afraid to to do what needs to be done to attempt to get the job done. And unfortunately, I just don't think the team was good enough. It's so funny because we can go around and we can talk about the age of of players, XY and Z, the buy in of players A, B, and C. We can talk about the youth. We can talk about this. We can talk about that plan symbol, the team just wasn't good enough. The team wasn't good enough. They were 10 and seven, they went on a seven game run. We've seen teams do it before. You mentioned it about Pittsburgh last year when they started 11 and all with a very aging Ben Roethlisberger with a young team around him. It was a young team around him and yet still, you know, we can make these comparisons because there's been a lot of this stuff about Mike Tomlin floated out there. I think I think Mike Tomlin is a much better coach than a lot of you guys think, but it says something when he has that team that he had, and still started the season 11 Oh, and 11 and Owens still finished with a winning record, and then lost in the playoffs. His team just wasn't that good enough. And sometimes we're gonna have those teams we look at the Bengals or the Bengals good enough. Maybe Maybe not. Maybe they're just riding a high or the Titans good enough. Yeah, they are. Or the Packers good enough? Yep. Or the Bucs good enough Absolutely. Chiefs sure Bills? We saw it Rams Yeah, the only two teams that I look at left in the playoffs and say they might just they might be missing one or two things they're playing each other is to know that I was gonna say the Bengals in the 49ers

Michael Marcangelo:

Oh, haha it's gonna say the Packers in the 49er's but yeah packers in the 49ers. But we can get to that shortly. But But my point is we as sports fans and as as podcast creators and as news media. I just don't think they were good enough. I just don't I and and I think there was a lot of things that you know, where you said Mccourty and Hightower can look back and really evaluate. I think those two guys are gone. I think the coaching staff needs to evaluate what their role is and has been. I agree. Yeah, it makes me want to keep to Joe's

Joe Malkin:

I have I have an issue with with Stephen Belichick. And Jerod sharing responsibilities on the defense. Now granted, excuse me, I've always been I know, I've always been a proponent of we don't already always need to know everything. You know, it's just the way the new cycle works in the world and in this country now is something is reported. And now all of a sudden, we feel entitled to know every single piece of information about every single To that point, though, why aren't they calling about story. It's like we just don't have the brainpower to do that. And it's the same thing with this. So I don't blame Bill for not naming a defensive coordinator or having two guys call the plays. The problem is the biggest problem that I have, and that the coaching staff needs to evaluate in the offseason is Who is that guy on defense because Bill is the the alleged defensive mastermind. You you have his son, who's the defensive backs coach, who I don't know if he if he knows or doesn't know what he's doing what I just don't know enough about the guy you said that on the last show, too, is that we just don't know enough about Steven Belichick Jerod Mayo, Jerod Mayo is clearly a a good coach of football because there's teams interviewing him for a head coaching job. So I think his role is bigger than what we think it is just based on the fact that he is being interviewed because, you know, nobody's calling they have to talk to Bill right? They got they got to talk to the GM to get permission to talk to the coach. So when they call the Patriots when you see those news, things come across your cell phone or on the TV or wherever you see it or hear it and it says you Denver Broncos asked for permission to talk to linebackers coach Jerod Mayo. Well, they've had to go to Bill and they're gonna say to Bill, hey, what do you know about this guy and sell him to us? Steven?

Michael Marcangelo:

Because I don't think he has a heightened role. That's that's the point I'm getting to is I don't think he has the same, nearly the same role as Jerod Mayo. I think he's been given too much responsibility, though. But another problem I have with his coaching staff, and going deeper into this is the fact that Belichick is this defensive mastermind he's got a Jerod Mayo who's listed as linebackers coach might as well be the defensive coordinator. Then he's got a son, who is also allegedly calling plays or having a big part of the defense. And then you have as a Special Advisor, we know what that means what the Patriots have to because he did it when he did it with Josh McDaniels after he came back from the Rams. Remember, remember he left he left Denver? Yeah, he was he was only the special counselor to the the offensive scheme in the playoffs that year because built because Billy O'Brien was so was so on the staff so that was just what four games so after Patricia gets fired from from Detroit, he comes back as the special defensive assistant like consolable It's the same thing it's the same the mike the differences as we like Josh McDaniels for the most part we we we dislike him less than than Matt Patricia, Matt Patricia is can be seen on Sundays walking across the field during warm ups and he's supposed to be a special assistant or consultant and he's on the field. He has a bigger part he has a bigger hand in that defense and that scheme and everything else and that's a problem and and here's here's a here's a hot take Jerod Mayo leaves to take a head coaching position this offseason. Matt Patricia will be reinstated as defensive coordinator.

Joe Malkin:

Yeah, well that's because the lines are still paying his contract and Bill knows what he's worth. It's not worth anything right so why do that? Well, why do that and not we'll get somebody that can actually call a defense

Michael Marcangelo:

bill because Bill loves his people and what he loves more than these people as are his people coming back and someone else paying for it book. Listen, we're gonna go into pricing. We're gonna we're gonna spend a lot of time this offseason talking about the the different coaches. But one thing I'll say just about Patricia, I mean, he holds a press conference in Detroit and says to and he says to somebody, why are you slouching, like, Shut up, you effing Pillsbury Doughboy? Shut up when a game beat someone decided to patriots. Okay, so this this one a little bit longer than we thought it would shocker. The first one is going to be a yes or no question. And I'll give you I'll give you 20 seconds to expand upon that. You need to know everything that we know so far. Having seen what we saw this year, was this a successful year for the New England Patriots? Yes, absolutely. It's a rebuild year. It's a turnaround year for the New England Patriots. I don't think Bill's going anywhere. I think they found the quarterback for now and Mac Jones. I mean, everybody wants to have this conversation. Is he the guy for the next 510 15 years? Well, right now? Yeah. until proven otherwise. Was it successful? Yep. They went 10 and seven and they made the playoffs? And they they have an actual team and and vision and pathway to go on right now with a roster. I mean, sure. There's a lot of changes that need to be made. Well wasn't a successful year. Yeah, they they're reestablishing themselves so it was a call it a bridge year, call it call it a rebuild year absolutely was successful. Alright, so I'm gonna say, I know, it wasn't. Here's why I think yes. You know, you improved on last year's record. Great. You made it to the playoffs yet it doesn't you get blown out. That's fine. I think that you hit on the quarterback, which is the most important piece. Typically, the team that spends the most in free agency improves the year that that following season by about three wins on average, the year after they decrease their win total by five. So we won't know if this was a successful year based off of the moves that he made because he chose to rebuild in free agency until after next year, but if we just look at this year, I think the success of this year was identifying that you have a pretty good sense of what your offense could look like with Mac Jones, Damien Harris. Stevenson, and you know, Hunter Henry. So I I'm kind of split, you know, ask the question this, I really want to talk about the Dallas 49er's and then the divisional that where do they go from here? So I asked this question, because in in 2022, the Patriots have a bunch of of free agents, right. So the reason why I was I'm hedging my bets on whether this was a successful urine odd is because when you looked at the offseason after the 7-9 year last year, the glaring issue on this team was offense. Right so you went you spent astronomical amounts of guaranteed money to fix that. Now, here here's a list of your of your upcoming free agents. Devin Mccourty Trent Brown Dont'a Hightower on JC Jackson, I you know what? I'm out on him about it.

Joe Malkin:

Listen,if they can bring in a bonafide number one number one corner, go ahead and sign them but the problem is, she's gonna want money and I think he's gonna take it as a slap in the face.

Michael Marcangelo:

Oh, yeah.

Joe Malkin:

If you say, Hey, listen, this is what happened last year. Yep. You did all this good stuff. But you know, we this is the money we're gonna give you and I think he's gonna get offended by that and he's gonna see it as them doing the same thing that they did to Gilmore If they can bring in a number one and get him on good money sharp bring him back otherwise I'm on he's not there right now and the Patriots are predicted to have right around $20 million of cap space so I don't know if it's right now you have the money to bring it in number one that number quote a lot, there's gonna be he's gonna he's got to make moves this offseason and I think I think you're gonna see some some trades some draft pick trades It was reported the day that we're recording this January 19. It was reported today that the Jets are looking to move the number 10 pick in the draft because they have another pick in the top 10. So you know, they have the first overall pick. So there they have first now Jaguars do second or third Jaguars have the first day of the second or third. So they're looking to move the 10th overall pick. Okay, so let's see. Let's see if bill tries to jump up this year. But there was we were talking about dat last year right him No,

Michael Marcangelo:

I'm mad enough to please don't do this to me. Don't

Joe Malkin:

I know to get to get Justin fields I'm sorry. I keep bringing up your your you're gonna have nightmares tonight and I'm the cause but I think he's gonna go defense he's gonna go defense because that's he can see that their agent he signed young on offense, right? Like he signed. He signed me young guys on offense. So defensively he knows he's got to go out and spend now he's gonna spend on the defensive end and he's gonna draft on the defenseman's. So we just went over Mccourty Trent Brown, Dont'a Hightower, JC Jackson, then you Ted Karras? I think he's gone. I think he's, I like to carry. Yes,

Michael Marcangelo:

I think so. Matthew Slater. I think he's gonna go.

Joe Malkin:

I think he's retiring. I think I think him, McCourty and I tower will will each ride off into the sunset on the tee behind the Foxboro Stadium. Gillette.

Michael Marcangelo:

I think James White has situation just like Edelman where he retires in the Patriots. They make sure to compensate him. I mean, I think I don't want to window into to expand more on that. Brandon Bolden never liked him. So I'm not on him to

Joe Malkin:

I don't understand, I don't understand this hate for Brandon bolding because there's so many people on that not so hate.

Michael Marcangelo:

I think that you can just look at my feelings on Brandon Bolden and and and think about it this way, it's toxic indifference. People care about him that I feel I feel a certain way about him Jamie Collins, I think he's probably out.

Joe Malkin:

I don't know what what did he do? What did he do?

Michael Marcangelo:

I don't know.

Joe Malkin:

It was a swan song for him i i don't know if he'll if he can go catch on on somebody and play a backup role or situational roll but he's he's older to male is you might tire too.

Michael Marcangelo:

So the purpose of this exercise is that a year after you spend a quarter of a billion dollars guaranteed to to really buff up your offense, you need now to do something very similar to make your yourself read on defense. And you're going to have to now make some moves. You know, I don't know what Jonnu Smith's trade value is probably isn't high. But maybe you move him or maybe you double down on him and you trade Hunter Henry, who the hell knows to pick up some more, some more capital. But I think now looking at at this team, you're right, they do need to draft on the defense. They also need to secure up to share up that offensive line. Because if

Joe Malkin:

you're losing two starting offensive linemen, essentially, I mean, let's say to Trent Brown Ted character both gone in the other three guys aren't very good. I will David Andrews. That's not I mean, you're paying Isaiah Wynn to be really good. Yeah, but he's not.

Michael Marcangelo:

Very great. Right. Yeah, I

Joe Malkin:

know. We're saying the same thing. And I know that was facetious on your part, but it's just he's just so frustrating to watch at times. When he's there when he's there. Yeah, exactly. And it's like if you don't have Trent Brown, David Andrews and Ted Karras, you don't have an offensive line. I mean, that's your big three on the offensive line. So you're right. They're gonna have to go out and do something. I think they made a mistake by not signing Joe Thuney he's actually had a tough You're in Kansas City in a good year, but just just tough like whenever whenever you're watching the Chiefs game and you hear about an offensive, an offensive line mistake, it's generally Joe Thuney. I think they made a mistake not bringing him back to New England. I think. I think even if you signed back to Karras, Trent Brown, you still you don't have a viable left tackle for your second year

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, I so I would actually I was talking quarterback. Yep. And I mean, the left side of the offensive line needs to be replaced. I know Ted Karas can play on the left guard side. Ted Charisse can basically play any of the middle three positions on the offensive line. Jonnu Smith, I think I think the playbook is going to evolve as we head into Mac Jones year two. And I think that he'll be used differently. I think he was banged up this year, I think. I also think he's having a little bit of a tougher time. What's interesting is I look at the Tennessee offense, and I say this because he came from Tennessee. I look at the Tennessee offense and it's very, it the Tennessee offense to me, for some reason seems very unorganized. And I don't know what it is about it. They have AJ Brown, they have a huge we I know and maybe that's what it is, is it's just it's it's organized chaos. I don't know what it is. But it always seemed just like a strange offense to me. So when Jonnu Smith came here, it was a big culture shock for him. Where I think Hunter Henry, playing with a guy like Justin Herbert, I think you can make a lot of comparisons. I think Justin Herbert is more athletic than Mac Brown. And I'm not making this comparison where I'm saying, Justin Herbert, I just think there's a lot of comparisons, especially in the passing game between those two guys. So I think Hunter Henry just kind of fit into that. about this. Well, I don't know who else I talked to besides you guys. But I maybe I was thinking about talking about this with somebody this weekend. I just never actually press send. We were hearing a lot about comparisons to Mac Jones. And you know, it's his rookie year. So who knows? I'm not saying his arm strength. But I I think if Mac Jones turns out to beat Phillip Rivers, you're like we hit we hit. We've hit. We've hit we've hit really big. Okay. So we did we did a little autopsy on the Patriots. We got we aired all of our grievances, it's time to put away those sad tissues and time to break out the happy ones Cowboys and the 40 Niners that essentially, Jimmy G played an excellent two and three quarters of a quarter of a game so sorry. But in the fourth, I've never seen a team try so hard to give the other team the win. Then Then the 49er's and maybe it's because they knew that the Cowboys just couldn't they don't they just couldn't take it. My thoughts in this game, because I want to we can go through this a little bit quicker. I think we I think we owe it to Bobby, to at least talk about the fact like how dumb is Mike McCarthy? How now when after that game ended? And first of all, I don't know why you call it or why you would even advocate for your quarterback to scramble for 15 year olds was only 14 seconds left and you know that you need to down the ball and hand it to the official unless you don't know that he needs sit down the ball and hand it to the fucking official. That's the only thing that goes through my mind. And we've talked about it on the show a lot this year that they have all of the talent and no discipline. And that's head coaching.

Joe Malkin:

Yeah million dollar arm five cent head right like you said about me Calvin Lucian one of my favorite movies of all time boulder. Yep, million dollar arm five cent head. And, you know, this is this has been one of my gripes with McCarthy for a long time. It's one of my gripes with Tomlin it's one of my gripes with a lot of coaches in the NFL, that there is no clock management or no clock awareness by a lot of these head coaches. And it's like it's something that they don't practice. They don't study and they don't adjust to. And now, you know, so many times we sit here and go, but you know that that's why they're the NFL Head Coach, and we're just talking about it. I could manage the clock of an NFL game better than a lot of head coaches in the NFL. Sure. It just, it's just something that could be done.

Michael Marcangelo:

It's also by the way, that's not a compliment.

Joe Malkin:

Right? Exactly. No, it's not the bright lights, the fans yelling this net. Well, how has Mike Tomlin and I know we're talking about Mike McCarthy. But how is Mike Tomlin and all these great years as the head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers not learned how to manage a clock like you don't you don't think you would become more proficient in that like the things in my job that I know I'm weaker at I adjust to and learn so that I can be better at those things. How do you not adjust to those things as an NFL head coach Mike McCarthy, Mike Tomlin the the saddest part about that Mike and you already said it is. That wasn't that wasn't a scramble. By Dak Prescott that was designed quarterback run with 14 seconds and no timeouts and you have to clock it, take the take, take the the official having to touch the ball out.

Michael Marcangelo:

Well, you can't because they didn't know that.

Joe Malkin:

Noble but, but even if he had I don't think they get it off. They weren't set.

Michael Marcangelo:

Right.

Joe Malkin:

tHey weren't set anyway. So they were screwed to begin with. So how dumb is Mike McCarthy? I think one one thing we we saw last year that we saw again this year. There's there's a there's one big consistency in a coaching staff this year. That was not consistent before, but there's one big consistently one big coach that is consistent for the Cowboys. That has not changed in the last three years and that's kellen moore. Oh my god, that took me a long time to get that up. kellen moore has been there for beat. He was pre McCarthy, and he's still there. And while he is a good X's and O's offensive coordinator, the he'll, he'll get better with age. He's about the same age as us and not everybody can be Sean McVeigh. But kellen moore. He calls the offensive plays. I think he called it and I think he screwed that up.

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, listen, knowing that that you know Bobby is our resident diehard Cowboys fan, right. And and he always finds the silver lining in any in any one of the turds that they lay out on the field, regardless of what the year is. And for him to tell us to give us an edict tonight, when this when we're recording this to make sure that we know and that we articulate his frustration in this cowboys team that shows you something. And again, Bobby finds the good stuff and all of the bad. This is the reason that they lost this game is not because of talent. It isn't because for the first time in quite a long time, Dallas had a well rounded team, they had talent on both sides of the ball. And they had their they had their quarterback come back and play at an MVP caliber level do better than he than he did in almost every statistical category, except completion percentage and then in 2019. And when it when it when everything else breaks down. If you are not coached, taught, trained, or instructed on the fundamentals of a game, you will lose and you and they had 14 penalties called on them accepted penalties on them in this game. And for them to even be in in the last second is a testament to the talent. But we all knew it was gonna we all knew what was going to happen. I did well one of the things that Bobby said to us, you know today. And I want to echo it is as a Cowboys fan. You have to be more enraged as the divisional weekend approaches you because your team isn't there. Because all year they looked like there was going to be a team that would that would make a deep run. And yeah, I like talking shit to him busting his balls. You can't deny the talent. Which brings me to my next question. Can they win? Can they actually win a Super Bowl with Mike McCarthy as their head coach? Or does Jerry need to do what he hasn't done since Bill Parcells for those two, two and a half or three years? And that was always having that sense. Since Jimmie Johnson, does he need to go out and find someone that will disrupt whatever's going on in Dallas because yeah, kellen moore. We hear a lot about him. He's a homegrown guy. Jerry likes, yes, men. He likes guys that fall in line and don't put too much pressure on him. But again, scoreboard. They haven't won a Super Bowl that they haven't advanced to the conference championship since 1995. So two part question, Joe, you can expound upon it. I will they ever win a Super Bowl with with McCarty's with McCarthy as a head coach? And do they need to go out outside of Jerry's comfort zone to find someone to manage a team that he did a great job putting together as a GM? I always go after him. He hit he hit on every single draft pick this year, and most of them last year. What are they gonna do?

Joe Malkin:

Can they win a Super Bowl with Mike McCarthy's head coach? Yes. Will they win a Super Bowl with Mike McCarthy as head coach? No. And and I, I always say something like this and I can hear Dave's voice in my ear saying it doesn't matter. That's what the NFL needs more of and he's absolutely right. There's two Many big personalities on this team Dak is a big personality. And we heard it, you know, when his contract was up what he was gonna, what he wanted what he was gonna command for dollar mountain years and I don't think Dak had earned it. I still don't think Dak has earned it. I think Dak is a is a top 10 NFL quarterback. I don't think he's earned to be paid like a top five quarterback. I just don't something about him. I I don't think he has I don't think he has it. Like McCarthy won the Super Bowl in Green Bay with Aaron Rodgers. Because Aaron Rodgers as much as Mike may hate to admit it had to get even if it was just a flash of it. He had it. I don't think Dak Prescott has it. So to expand on your question, can they win with him? I don't think they can win with deck. Should Jerry go out and bring someone from the outside in. If if there was a list of the the worst good owners in sports, Jerry Jones is near the top of the worst good owners in sports. He's, he's a he's a great owner. He's a great GM, he he he he pushes that team the way it needs to be pushed in that market. He markets his team perfectly. He built that beautiful stadium. He's he's got his own radio show. He goes on podcasts all the time. He talks to the fans, he's he's not a down to earth person, that we know that because he he does the draft on his $250 million yacht and Pacific Ocean or wherever the heck he was. Which is a different conversation. But Jerry Jones needs to give up the reins to the to the GM. And I know you just said he's done a great job putting that team together. He needs to give up the genes to that car, because I think he thinks he thinks more for the coach than I think the coach does. And I think a lot of what he says and does resonates to the coaching staff and the playing style of the team. And I think that's detrimental to the team too. So it's a it's kind of a perfect storm because what's really interesting is and I and I didn't say this the other day because Bobby was very emotional. And as you shouldn't need to stop having to talk him off a ledge every every week, because it's just the same thing with the Cowboys. So just just expect it like just go through it. It is so funny, though. But anyway, but without getting into that. There was a lot of comparisons made on Sunday by Bobby, between Mike McCarthy and Jason Garrett. He said it straight up he said this is Garrett all over again. But Jason Garrett's gone Mike McCarthy is here but what's the one constant? Jerry Jones so it's not it's not Mike McCarthy. It may not have been Jason Garrett ology Jason Garrett Sachs. He was fired as the Giants GM in the middle of giants office coordinator in the middle of the season.

Michael Marcangelo:

By a moron Joe Judge by inept head coach.

Joe Malkin:

Well, yeah, I mean, he's a special teams coordinator. But but the point is, is Jerry Jones is the common denominator here. I think he's the reason why Mike McCarthy won't win a Super Bowl with Dallas Cowboys as the head coach, because you're right, they have the talent. But they can't put it together. They can't finish.

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, I think it's less about the person and more about the concept, right? I think we we know we've always talked about here in New England, sometimes a Belichick would the GM would really screw the coach like like no the same person, right? He had our coach because of how bad the GM did it just turns out he's he was both in this situation. I think more often than not, you can point to drafts. You know, I would say more recently sinful, we'll just say like, since 2015 2016. Jerry has done a really good job of acquiring talent and drafting talent, outstanding drafter. But what he won't do is put someone in a position as a head coach to do what they want with that talent. Right? It's, and I could be wrong, because I'm not a diehard Cowboys fan. But I think that that actually makes me more equipped to have this conversation. They're just like you. It looks. It looks like Jerry wants to win a Super Bowl his way more than he wants to win the Super Bowl.

Joe Malkin:

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Without and that's exactly what I meant. And that, that really kind of says what I said and what I was trying to say in so many words. He he wants he always he's always wanted to do it his way. It's Jerry's way or the highway that's that's what we hear from down there anyway, so

Michael Marcangelo:

yeah, it's like oh, yeah, he because he probably you know, harkens back to well, I I've been with Barry Switzer. Yeah, but that that team was all but hey, picked and coached up by Jimmie Johnson. Right? So you got lucky that you still had all that talent that a buffoon could walk in and win Super Bowl with

Joe Malkin:

was like Jon Gruden winning a Super Bowl in Tampa. Well,

Michael Marcangelo:

the same thing, but Jon Gruden and that Super Bowl had had both teams that he had one team that he built in one team that he inherited, and they were both into trouble. So I think that's probably a testament to how we could do that. But I don't want to go down that, that that that rabbit hole, I will be getting just angry messages. One last thing before we move on to the divisional round. Real quick. Is Jimmy doing to Trey Lance, to a lesser extent right now so far? What Brady did to Jimmy?

Joe Malkin:

No.

Michael Marcangelo:

Do you think Jimmy is doing enough to keep his job next year? Or is he doing or is he just raising his trade value?

Joe Malkin:

I think Jimmy is has proved that he can be a starting NFL quarterback. We still see him on the injury report every week, which was one of your biggest gripes with with Jimmy Garoppolo. I would also say not comparing the two guys but we all always saw Tom Brady on the injury report. Now the difference was, Jimmy actually gets hurt. Tom was just there because he had an ache or a pain and they just put him on there to for Bill to feel like he was being hilarious. Jimmy Garoppolo is a is a real NFL quarterback. I've said this from from the start. Is he is he doing to Trey Lance what Tom Brady did to him? No, I think he's doing too. For the reasons that you think? No, I think he's doing to Trey Lance. What Tom Brady did to him in spite of his coach who clearly doesn't want I don't think Kyle Shanahan wants him there. So I think He's raising his trade value. I think he could go to a lot of places and and be a starting quarterback. But I don't think he would be as successful somewhere else than He is in San Francisco. But the problem is, is that at some point in in year two or year three of Trey Lance, somebody is going to get antsy and it's either going to be Kyle Shanahan and Trey lands and Trey, Lance is going to say listen, if you're gonna keep this guy around, fine, but I need to be playing I need to do something he can clearly play. We know Trey Lance can play. I think he needs to be refined a little bit more. I don't think he's as close to being the good starting NFL quarterback is as Mac Jones is and I think Mack Jones is already a good starting NFL quarterback but Jimmy's are in this job in San Francisco. It's just a matter of if Kyle Shanahan will remain keep him there. He's a he's a really good game manager. I've seen I especially in this game last week, I saw a lot of similarities between Jimmy Garoppolo and Mac Jones. I mean, they they manage the game. Well, they have similar arms. Mac Jones is a tough son of a gun. No. I mean, he's, he's tougher than Jimmy G will ever be.

Michael Marcangelo:

Oh, yeah.

Joe Malkin:

And you know, just to kind of throw a little bit of a lighter side to this I Jimmy Garoppolo is the best looking quarterback in the NFL. So gotta keep them around.

Michael Marcangelo:

My grandmother would disagree. But before, before we move on, she's she loves mahomes.

Joe Malkin:

He's a pretty good looking guy to just keep his brother.

Michael Marcangelo:

I would just say that before we move on. I hope that we did a good job at at least talking a little bit about the frustration that a Cowboys fan would have from an outsider's perspective. It was it was so comical to watch. But if that was my team, I would be I would be absolutely devastated. But we'd been there right that's I literally look at every postseason run in the last 25 years as every postseason run of the Red Sox up until 2004. They're just gonna do enough to make you believe and then they're and then they're absolutely going to defecate down your throat and make everybody watch and laugh at you. One last thing on this and I'll let you if you have if you have a comment. I think we learned a lot about the type of player and person and coach that that McCarthy's and Dak Prescott are in their postgame interview about how they were okay with fans throwing trash in the field when they realized that it was about the refs. What happened at the end of that game was not the referees fault. It was a lack of coaching, a lack of discipline and a lack of understanding of the fundamentals. Again, say what you want he never He never won a championship. You go back and watch the highlights. Any time when the clock was running in the fourth quarter and time could have expired. Arizona Cardinals Larry Fitzgerald ran the ball to an official to have the spike it to get set because he knew the rule he knew what needed to happen this was just this was just clearly they didn't know and they did not want to initially accept the responsibility

Joe Malkin:

it's amazing the this kind of goes into the the cycle logical and sociological side of the the sports fan but the mob mentality in sports is just so it Oh, it's always so amazing. To me, and I consider myself a rules snob. Oh, especially when it comes to football. And it's always so funny to be looked at as a leper, when you know whether it's sitting in the stands of Gillette or hanging out with friends and I say something very confidently, and they're all pissed off about something that I say something very confidently that does not agree with what they say, because it's just the way it is. And you're looked at like a leper for being right. And and it's, we've seen that a lot in today's society, especially with what's going on in the world. We see that so much. And for anyone to think that that was the officials fault. is is it's asinine. I saw a comment the other day on Facebook.

Michael Marcangelo:

I understand why a fan would think that, but they're not paid to understand the rules.

Joe Malkin:

No, but But if, but if a player and a coach, but that's that's the other thing, too, is we've seen that in NFL games, where Donovan McNabb didn't know that you could tie in an NFL football game, it's like, how do you not know the game that you play? How do you not know that? Like? Do you only know the rules for your position and the positions around you? Or do you do you literally just not know the rules of of the game because that's a problem you you need to know the game that you're playing. I mean, those guys are paid to know the game inside and out. But to that end, there was a unfortunately, I decided to dive into a comment section about this game and there was an Angels fan in there that said that the NFL referees took away six to eight Eagles wins this year, six to eight Eagles wins. Six, six to eight. That's so you you thought the Eagles should have gotten 16 and or 17 and one or 16. And one because they won Yeah. Basically what you're saying a message to the fans. The referees don't take games away from your team. They're you. The jokes are funny. But the jokes have gone too far. You know, the eagle said for years. And somebody said the that that like Tom Brady pays off the refs. And it's like, no, no, but I mean, we see it in the NBA all the time. Here's a here's a smaller example, right like to guys like LeBron James garner more calls than other players? Absolutely. superstars automatically get more calls there. There. There is a sense of favoritism. And this is another problem in sports and again, going down a rabbit hole that people don't want to talk about. And they're like, Well, you use it's Tom Brady, so he's gonna get that call he up. Yup, he is like the plain and simple. He's got that those guys are going to get those calls. But I can assure you that the referees are not out to screw your team, the game isn't rigged. And that's just not what's going on here. The Dallas Cowboys screwed themselves because they ran for it. With 14 seconds left and no timeouts to the middle of the field. My friends, so if you start throwing things on the field that's on you, man. I mean, fans, first of all, anybody that threw something on the field is just a piece of crap. I mean, you know, respect. I mean, they do it in Buffalo, they do it in Dallas, they've done it, they do it all the time in Cleveland, they were throwing batteries or referees on here in Cleveland. I mean, just cut that shit out. It's, at the end of the day, it's not that big of a deal. And it's not gonna make or break your life get old.

Michael Marcangelo:

I would say though, again, I'm not advocating so you know, for anyone out there that's looking to cancel me you're not gonna get me this time. I'm not advocating for anyone out there that's in in the stance that they're trash, or to throw any objects on the field. Right? What I will say is there is a big difference between paying for a ticket and thinking that something happened that one wrong and not understanding the rules. And and being paid to play in that game. And echoing the same sentiments, right? You can't do both. Okay. So rapid fire round real quick divisional round outlook, right? So I'm going to read you the game, regional, a little bit of a byline about the game and then I want you to tell me who you think is going to win and why. And we'll try and keep this under 85 minutes for the segment. So Saturday, January 22. We have number four seed Cinncinatti Bengals that the number one . The bangles are in the division around the first time in 31 years and they will be playing a Titans team that will more than likely have Derrick Henry on the field for the first time since October. Who wins the game and why Bengals there they're on a roll of the Bengals are on a roll and something about the Titans doesn't sit with me. I mentioned their offense earlier just seems like controlled chaos. Having Derrick Henry back is going to be an X factor for them. Of course they guys one of the best running backs possibly to ever play the game. He's He's outstanding. But as Mike has said many times, you can't win a championship in the runningback as your best player you can get there with the running back because your best player this Bengals team Zach Taylor, what a job this guy's doing. I had this guy out of Cincinnati before he barely stepped off the plane left He's doing a great job of this team. Joe Burrow is the real the real deal, man. Ja'Marr Chase is absolutely incredible. This team loves playing for him. They love playing for Zach Taylor that defense has been when when the offense is clicking, and funny how we come back to this when they have that guy, right when they have that guy, Joe Burrow right now in his second year is that guy, yeah, that comes plays better i the Bengals over the Titans. You know, I wholeheartedly agree. But I'll just add a caveat that I think in this game, or really any game that the Titans are in, it's dependent on who gets the ball first and what type of offense they have. Right? So if the Bengals do show up, and they are that, that high powered offense, they put up seven points on that first drive. You've you've really just relegated Derrick Henry in that game. You because You can't dedicate 35 handoff to him and drain all that clock if Joe Burrow can just go do not to the same extent, but kind of replicate, replicate what what mahomes did to them. And as you'd have a game a couple years ago, right, so I think I think Bengals, I think was that one too.

Joe Malkin:

Yeah, I'm with Craig as a lifelong Bengals fan. I think it's gonna be a great game for the Bengals on Saturday, right

Michael Marcangelo:

49 Or 49ers packers. So Aaron Rodgers get the chance to beat the one team he has he's not been able to knock off in the playoffs. Aaron Rogers his own three all time in the postseason against the 40 Niners but he did beat the 49ers this year and LEED Green beige with 30 to 28 victory over San Fran and week three, who wins Green Bay. And I think there's a few factors that play into this. You're playing in Green Bay in January in late January at night. In a very light, it's going to be a very loud Lambeau Field. And as much as Aaron Rodgers has had an incredible season, right, and I know your feelings on him that he pooped his pants at this point in the year. I don't think he's going to do it yet. I think he can get past this week. I don't know if the 49ers Niners have enough to get there. I think they're I think they're a mostly prolific team. Elijah Mitchell in Deebo Samuel will have been very good for them offensively. George Kittle's been okay. Jimmy has been playing well in that defense is dangerous. They may or may not have Nick Bosa after he left with a concussion last week, he's he's a big factor. If he can play, they have a better chance because that defense is better with him on if the 49ers The 49ers are not going to see the Cowboys again. If that makes sense. This isn't going to be the Cowboys This is the Packers matla floor is a better coach than then Mike McCarthy even though Mike McCarthy has a Super Bowl with Aaron Rodgers and the Packers. But the Packers are the Packers we'll take this one I don't think it'll be easy. I think the 49ners will, we'll give them fits and make it frustrating that that's the kind of team the 40 Niners are the Packers get by Yeah, I want to say that that the Packers are going to go out there and lay an egg but in reality, I think that the 49ers are going to beat them in overtime in this game. I think it's real. I think, you know, you can say yeah, Aaron Rodgers is one of those Super Bowls. Great. He's won in five and conference title games, that he chokes he that this is what he does. And if you all the things you talked about, about Kyle Shanahan and the San Francisco offense, that that's real. No, I don't know that the Packers have an answer for Deebo Kittel and Elijah Mitchell who's playing like everyone thought he could have played early on the season finally. So if that happens, I think it will be close. I don't think it's gonna be a blowout either way. I just I promise you. You heard you heard it here. I will never pick Aaron Rodgers. In a game that happens in January or February. It'll never happen. So on Sunday 305 Eastern Time, we have the Rams going to Tampa Bay. So Tom Brady and the Buccaneers will get a chance to to make up for one of their losses that they had in the regular season. That's back in week three, the Rams beat the Bucs 34-24 I think the big difference in this game is that this will be played at Hall tempo was eight and one this year at home. And also I know that this this is clouded stats because he was the quarterback here for such a very long time. And Tom Brady is 134 and 27 at home in his career, he is currently 16 and five as a member of the Bucs. So I think I think home field advantage matters right now. And I also think that I truly believe that the Packers are gonna get eliminated so if the Bucs win they'll be the top seed in the NFC I think what we saw last week, yeah, it was the Eagles. But there was something different about the way that that defense was playing. That it looks like they were able to turn on the switch and flip the switch lat last week. If Leonard Fournette comes back and is is anywhere close to the type of player that he was in the first eight weeks of the season. I think I think it's going to be I think it's going to be game. I don't think there's I don't know that there's going to be any blowouts of that happening individual weekend. I think. Stafford traveling to Tampa. I think the moment gets a little bit too big for him. I do think he has a really good coach. I think I really like McVeigh and we'll see if this is a pick them for me. But I do think that Tebow walks out with the victory.

Joe Malkin:

This is the toughest game to pick this weekend. I agree with you on the 40 Niners point and why you wouldn't pick Aaron Rodgers so I can it's like I I picked the Packers but I can see the 40 matters winning this one it's it's a pick em the other bright lights of Tampa going to be too much for Matt Stafford. That's that's a good point that you just made like, you kind of have the same feeling with Matt Stafford. Less may close to but less so than you do with Aaron Rodgers. It's almost the same where it's like alright, well, he hasn't done anything until this year. So why pick him against Tom Brady? We know that Tom Brady has beaten Sean McVeigh in a Super Bowl. We know that Tom Brady is known for making his opponents unsettled. And the rams are a team that I said when OBJ went there and and even before that, that there's there's a lot of big names there. Can they handle the pressure of going up against Tom Brady? I think the Rams can pull this up. And I'm going to pick the Rams. And the reason I'm going to pick the Rams is because they their momentum is so high right now. Now, not that the Buccaneers isn't. But the Buccaneers are on such a consistent path. They've been very consistent. And that's a good thing. That's that's in their favor. I think this rams defense is very good. I think the Rams offense is too overpowered for what the Buccaneers defense can throw at them. And I think Matt Stafford with the weapons he has, I think he's more confident in these weapons now than he ever was in his weapons in Detroit. And I'm not saying Calvin Johnson. I'm just saying overall in general now, he doesn't have a Calvin Johnson tight, but he does has have Cooper Kupp. He's got Tyler Higbee, who's a very good tight end in this league. He's got Odell Beckham, Jr. It still hurts to say that. But he's been very good. He's he's got a really good team. Vin Jefferson has been really good. I think the rams are going to take this short, the short form, I think the Rams can take this. I think it's going to be a really close game. If it comes down to Brady having to lead a small comeback at the end of the game, then it's probably going to go to Tampa. But if the Rams can if the Rams play this right, and if Sean McVeigh can learn from his previous transgressions against Tom Brady, the Rams can take this I think I think it can be rams packers in the NFC Championship.

Michael Marcangelo:

I think Scotty Miller is going to be the MVP of this game. Because I think Jalen Ramsay do it again. I think Jalen Ramsey is going to absolutely shut out. Rob Gronkowski. I think they're going to take away Brady's ability to go to him. So it's gonna it's going to be Scotty Miller. But I do think that the Bucs are going to win. I just trust Brady to not make a mistake more than I trust Matt Stafford not to make a mistake in not cutting time. Final game on the docket is the number three Buffalo Bills traveling to

Kansas City at 6:

30pm on on on Sunday. I think it's probably the most anticipated game of the divisional round. You're going to be getting a rematch of last year's AFC title game. I think this we've learned more about the bills this year right they were able to kind of get that monkey off their back and I don't know I listen to I know that Kansas City can score but I don't know that Kansas City's defense can stop buffalo from scoring and I don't and maybe buffalo doesn't make the mistakes that they made last year maybe the moment isn't too big for them. I do think that what you saw last week on the field against New England was was their coming out party and was like their Super Bowl. So I'm gonna take the bills I think the bills that are they have stellar game

Joe Malkin:

buffalo's a wagon with a capital W and I just think they're I think they're so good man and the Chiefs you and I have said it and we've all said it this year but you and I have said it I think most predominantly is that the Chiefs have a flaw it just it especially in that offense, which sounds weird to say but there's there's a there's a flaw in that team that I just can't put my finger Andy Reid is probably the best coach remaining in in this in this playoffs like you overall he's the best coach remaining of the eight head coaches. It can he be that factor that gets them past buffalo buffalo has a has a problem. Sometimes putting up performances back to back weeks. It's almost like they get tired and it's like alright, we, you know, we spent all our energy on the Patriots. We were just not going to be able to against the chiefs and that's kind of really short form. I like buffalo here too. I really like buffalo as a lifelong Buffalo Bills, fan bills mafia. It's all sounded gross as a Patriots fan coming out of my mouth. I know I'm sorry. I love this bill's team man. I loved him in the preseason. I've loved them all season long. That Josh Allen is is a really good quarterback. Devin Singletary has figured out how to be an NFL running back. They have prolific wide receivers. They have a really, really good tight end and Dawson Knox. That defense is ridiculous. And I'll tell you what, that's a hell of a coaching staff. I mean, McDermott Deeble Frazier, I mean, double and Leslie Frazier man like, what after he left Minnesota as the head coach who was like What's he going to do? And now look at him. He's coaching one of the best defenses in the NFL, and he's got a chance to go to the AFC title game and same thing here. As I said with the bangles, Ivan the builds are just they just have that guy that they have that guy that has the it factor right now. And all I can say is I think the AFC Championship between Joe Burrow and Josh Allen in Buffalo is going to be a great game I

Michael Marcangelo:

wholeheartedly agree in if we get out now we'll we'll do this in less than 90 minutes. So for Broadway Joe Malkin, this is Michael Mark Angela saying thank you so much for listening to missing the point.