The Great Debate: YouTube Golf

Welcome And Debate Rules

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Missing the Point. I am your host, Michael Marcangelo. Well, not actually for the entirety of the show, but we'll get to that. I'm joined by my guy, my best man, Zach Gray, and Matty Wilcox, Marty McFly, dipshit, whatever you're gonna call him tonight. That's those those are all of his nicknames. Um we actually have a pretty opportune time on this podcast to talk about golf. We've never done this before. So I think what we're gonna do today is Matt's gonna host a debate between Zach and I to discuss YouTube and what it's meant for the game of golf, the pros, the cons, all the in-betweens. Um and Matt, just you know, we've not talked about this before. Uh I have no idea whose side you're on, but if you feel so inclined, like please always just interject, especially if you're on my side.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

Thank you, Mike. I'll do my best to uh keep my opinions impartial and uh leaning towards you as always. Um love that. Uh gentlemen, are you prepared? Are you ready? Do you have any questions?

SPEAKER_00 1:14

As uh as good as I can be, I suppose.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Okay. Some would say good, good. Some would say that.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

Point to Mike. Let's lead with this.

YouTube Golf Vs LIV Debate

SPEAKER_03 1:26

Has YouTube Golf done more damage to the game than Live Golf ever could?

SPEAKER_02 1:31

Zach, I'll let you start this because you newer on the show and I uh value your opinion less, so you can go first.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Excellent. Uh well, I think this question really stemmed from I think I forget when we even brought this up in the first place to bring this uh bring this episode to light, but uh no, I think uh I think YouTube Golf has really brought uh I don't want to call it a stain. I don't want to call it a you know smear the game or anything. Um but it's definitely uh it's definitely been a distraction, it's been a deterrent, especially with one of uh one of the bigger stars in the game right now, whose hat I am proudly wearing. I love this hat, Bryson DeChambeau hat.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Um, who you would name your firstborn son after, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Yeah, yeah. For the record, yeah. If uh if I had a son first, if his name would be Bryson, not uh so here we are. Um and I want to preface too of this episode by saying that I don't think that it's ruined the game, and I'm some sort of purist, and I'm some sort of like hard o golf. I'm a 28 handicap. I play casually every week. Yes, I'll enjoy some beer on the course too, have fun, play music, all that. So I'm not some old school prick out here on the course. But I do also think that YouTube golf and the influencers have had a negative impact on the game of golf more than Liv has as well. Uh Michael, which side do you want?

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Yeah, so um, it's just fair to say I'm on the opposite side of you on any given thing, usually. Um, but I would just say that YouTube has done more for the game of golf since the last time Tiger Woods won than Tiger Woods did in the 30 years that he was in his prime. And I say that because uh in 2025, uh a record 48 million people golfed for the very first time. And that's because it's just it's just been going up every single year since 2019. And what happened in 2019? You had the guys over at Good Good, Bob does sports. I don't know if Bryson was in it yet, because I think he was still contractually obligated to be a juicebag with the PGA, but uh every year uh there's been more and more people. So just to fact check myself here, 48.1 million people golfed uh in 2025. That's up three million uh from the year prior. Every year it has gone up three million since 2019.

SPEAKER_03 4:05

Hand up, that's me. I'm in that list.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

Yeah, and I I think I think it's because YouTube golf uh and guys like Bob does sports, uh who, you know, breezy. Hopefully they'll they'll be friends with the show. I'd love to talk to those boys. Um but when you watch an episode on YouTube of a YouTube golfer, it feels like you're out there golfing with your friends. It it feels like it's made the game more accessible. So I think that's why more people are doing it for so long. It felt like the PGA just didn't even want to uh promote anything other than Tiger, Phil, Rory, JT, you know, and they're all superstars for sure. I'm not no one's gonna discredit that, but how do you get people involved in sports? I mean, the NBA's been doing it for years. They went and did in you know, inner city play. They did that, harm globe trouters, got more people involved in in basketball. So this is this this is a proven uh equation. You you what you do is you make it feel more accessible and it will become more accessible. So I'm pro YouTube. It's also because I'm a terrible golfer and I I see myself, you know, when Joey Coldcuts hits his first terrible shot of the uh of the day of the day, which is usually the very first shot of the day, it's all about the excuses, and I fucking love that.

COVID Boost And Golf Accessibility

SPEAKER_00 5:26

So for the increases in golf since 2019, I I think we'd be uh I think it'd be a miss to not point out COVID being a big factor in that as well.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Uh no, 100%, but COVID also birtheds really uh the explosion of YouTube golf.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Right. And yeah, I will say that it goes hand in hand to say that uh it's not just COVID. Like obviously people are at home doing nothing all day and just watching you know YouTube or playing video games or doing whatever else stuck at home, even like chipping around their yard, too. So yes, like YouTube golf and COVID kind of collided together to have this explosion. Um, but it's it's not as if just YouTube golf was there in some normal environment and all of a sudden people just were going to golf because of normal circumstances. Uh COVID absolutely had had a factor in that as well.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

I absolutely think that you have to recognize the fact that these entertainers who went to YouTube to look for an ability to entertain flocked to golf because golf was one of the first things available because of COVID. So they fed off each other. It's it's it's it's like having that that Brady Belichick debate. They did it together.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, and I think that's more the the coinciding point I wanted to make with the the explosion and participation. It's just, you know, it's not just YouTubers, it's also the fact that people had nothing to do for close to a year. And so once it was one of the first activities that or activities or places that opened up for business as a normal thing to do after post-COVID or towards the end of COVID, and um, it led to a massive amount of people playing.

LIV’s Impact On PGA Incentives

SPEAKER_02 7:08

But also like to to answer your actual question, Matt, I think Live will be remembered for expanding uh opportunity for players for pro golf. Now you can always say that the quality of of golf is a huge drop-off between the PGA and Live, and that's that's 100% true. Um but the PGA was so stuck in their ways and they weren't making accommodations to players. So, you know, a few of them took some Saudi blood money. And yeah, listen, I I you can nitpick where it comes from, you can nitpick all the you know the geopolitical ramifications of it. I'm not here to do that. I'm here to say if you had a gun to my head and said you can either watch Live or you can watch YouTube, I would watch YouTube golf.

SPEAKER_03 7:57

Well, every day and twice on Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Yeah, and I think it's a little more accessible because wasn't Live on like the CW when it first debuted as well. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

All that money and they couldn't get some primetime showing, huh?

SPEAKER_00 8:07

No. Very simple. No, I mean I mean at the end of the day, like the whole thing was just to screw with the tour uh and just to be a disruptor.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

But well, the tour needed needed to be screwed with. I mean, it was too set in their ways. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

But it's it's not like it ruined I don't think literally for call like I don't think it ruined the game of golf. Uh I think it if if anything, it pushed them to realize like you know, they needed to take their their the prizes, like the purse more seriously for their big tournaments to kind of expand the game and and get more I don't want to say involvement, but more to kind of show that like like these guys are all right, these guys were clearly unhappy, not just from like a financial standpoint. Um there's a lot more to promote with these guys than just playing Thursday through Sunday. And uh if it was to if going to Live was gonna get some eyeballs on them, then you know, yes, it brought some necessary change, which in theory you could say is help the game of golf.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

Well, that's that's an interesting point. Mike, what do you say to the idea that live golf did help try and identify a new leader of golf after it was clear that Tiger was not gonna give us another one after his last one?

SPEAKER_02 9:17

I I think that in any chance that you have to break up a monopoly in sports, you should do it. I think having competition will always make every product better. Now, again, Liv is not a good product. Um but it did make the PGA increase their purses for non uh, you know, uh non tour events, um signature events. Yeah, the signature events events all started based off of uh the Lib purses.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Yeah, and then the uh and then the majors were I mean the majors are independent of the tour. Um, but yeah, the signature events that they increased those. Same with the tour championship at the end, they they re-modified even even how the tour championships uh scored at the end as well. Uh they they changed all that afterwards.

SPEAKER_03 10:06

Side question for both debaters. Uh is this all Scotty Scheffler's fault for being such a wet blanket of the human being?

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Uh just to indulge you, sure. Why not? Yeah, why not?

SPEAKER_02 10:20

The guy has uh a prison photo and he played in that tournament. I'm not sure how much uh how much more controversy you'd want from him. I just think, listen, after the void, uh there was a void left by Tiger and by Phil. Um, and you know, uh when he came back in 2019 to win the Masters, that's one of the uh the best championships and best tours, you know, best events I've ever watched. But he wasn't the perennial star that the league uh that the PJ needed him to be. And they tried to coronate Rory sooner, they tried to coronate uh, you know, uh JT and Jordan Spieth and all these guys, but they're just not it. And listen, Tiger didn't have a good personality, like you didn't watch him because of uh of what he was gonna say. You watched him because in his prime, just like Brady, just like all the greats, you knew coming down on Sunday when he was wearing that red shirt, he was going to whoop that ass. And he did every single time. So every single time, yeah. There was there was such a huge void, and I think that that that manifested in Live, but again, I think it manifested in in YouTube, man. I I can't tell you how many hours of YouTube golf I watch, like it's just on in the background. Zach, you once asked me a question. Uh like, do you just have it on the background? I'm like, yeah, because when the tour when the tour is on, I'll have that on the background too. But if I get if I can look up and see, you know, uh Bob does sports playing against Josh Allen and other quarterbacks, or Xander Shoffley, or doing a donut challenge with John Rom when he six months donuts fucking hole, it's hysterical. It is hysterical.

SPEAKER_03 12:04

They are hilarious. And and the other thing I think you need to give credit to them is the varying degrees of skill where they somehow found the fattest guy to be the best golfer. And I mean that with all due respect to Fat Perez because he's a terrific talent, he's hilarious, and he's so gifted. And Bob is such a schlub on the course. It's just a beautiful combination.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

It's but he's full of vibes, he's full of vibes. He should be actually like formerly Fat Perez because he's like down 95 pounds in a year.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

God, you know what? God bless those epic. Um, gentlemen, I think we kind of already covered this, but where do you when do you believe that

The Match Sparks Creator Golf

SPEAKER_03 12:43

golf really did change? Was it COVID? Was it 2019? Was it um Scheffler going on his run? When did this all shift? When uh was it Saudi Arabia decided that they were gonna sports wash their nation, R. I.P. Khashoggi. What was the defining moment that led to this divide here?

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Uh I'll it was absolutely Tiger versus Phil in the match, without a doubt, in 2018. Um, I mean, you don't if you don't have the match, you don't have Bob Dow Sports, you don't have any of these other YouTube channels where they're having challenges with celebrities. I mean, even the follow-ups to the match with Brady, with uh Mahomes is on one right? Uh Allen, like so is Josh Allen, yeah. Yep. So you don't have any of the follow-ups, but the very first one in 2018 was absolutely the seed that was planted for YouTube golf to explode, especially a year and a half before COVID took off as well. Uh so they already had that event established there.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

It's you forget that sorry to cut you off, but I'm not really sorry, Zach. Uh it's fine. It's fine. The first match was on pay-per-view. You had to buy it.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Yes, yeah, and technical difficulties, and then they had to make it free. So even better.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

But the the fact that they and I I don't I don't know the exact buy rate for that, but I'm pretty sure it was in like the 400 or like 500,000. And if you're you get 500,000 people, I I was one of them. Um I was one of them. We're gonna pay 20, you know, $29.99 to watch two greats go at it, and it worked. So why not capitalize on that?

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Right. But right, and then the lead up to that though has always been Tiger versus Phil on tour. That Phil was the personality. Phil was always perceived as you know, the big, like, you know, he's kind of thick, he's kind of friendly, you know. You look at him, you know, he you know, allegedly a swinger, this and that. And then you get Tiger who's you know built like a basketball player, he's built like uh an athlete, he's not built like a golfer, like back in the the 60s, 70s, 80s. Like this guy was built like an athlete, and he trained meticulously, and he was dominant. So it was just this clashing between the guys and just a ton of stories and reporting about how they truly hated each other, and how when they played, that you know, Phil would go out and hit his driver and hit it, you know, 320 yards, and then Tiger goes up and says, Okay, I'll take my three wood and hit it 350 yards. Uh so like that they just they truly despise each other for the fact that Tiger worked his ass off and was in shape, and Phil was just kind of a lump most of the time and had the talent and wasn't taken as seriously as Tiger. But then you have the match, so you have all this history leading up to the match, and with all due respect, it wasn't exactly like did we like people had this expectation that it was gonna be you know shit talking, you know, because they're gambling and then all this, but like if you're agreeing to come together for a nine million dollar purse to be broadcast on pay-per-view, you're gonna be on friendly terms in some way, shape, or form. The same way, the same way uh the McGregor and Mayweather fight killed boxing forever and they were just in for the payday. Uh, so I I to me, you know, you can look at YouTube golf and dissect it this and that, but like the seed that planted this all for my spite, hatred, whatever, is Tiger vs. Phil, which is just ironic, totally ironic, given that Tiger Woods, I don't want to say saved golf, but he definitely brought it to the absolute mainstream in the late 90s and early 2000s. He saved golf. Okay, he saved golf, yes.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

He saved golf, he changed golf forever.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

Yeah. He made golf something. The the match is such a great thing to point look back to and say this was it. And it and everything that you just said is 100% true. Um but when you when you see again that that outside of the national broadcast, they were people that were willing to to to pay just to watch two of the greats go and hear what they how they talk to each other and hear some of the side bets. I mean, if you're a content creator, uh and you're any good at golf, which most of these people are, like Brad Dalke used to play, uh, he's qualified for tour events. Uh Fat Perez, uh FP, he's a I think he's a one handicap. He he can go. Um I think Grant Horvath was a D2 golfer. Grant Horvath. Yeah, Grant Horvath.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

Anybody in Thank you on Sunday.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

Yeah, and and I but here's here's my my overall point just to try and one up you because we are in a debate. I think I think every time the PGA does a pro-am, they planted the seed for YouTube golf. Because those pro ams, when you see Steph Curry, when you see LeBron, when you see Charles Barkley, when you see the Miz, they get just as many viewers as the Thursday, Friday, and Saturday uh days of the competition uh of any of any tournament. So there was this like there there was this want and desire to see people who are not golfers uh play and see how they go because everyone wants to to feel like they're part of something. So I think the PGA tour did this to themselves. They were just too stupid to capitalize on it.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

Stu the refusal to even acknowledge that there was a problem, even when live golf was stealing your telephone, the refusal to even make a maneuver is is part and parcel of the PGA.

Etiquette, Pace Of Play, Fanboys

SPEAKER_03 18:25

And let's face it, Zach, this really goes to you. How do you how do you justify this? That golf has turned from an uptight, uh rich, uh privileged game into this global phenomenon. Are you not grateful for that? Are you sick of people hitting you with golf carts on the golf course? I understand that aspect of it. But what is it? What what is what has weakened the game for you since fandom has grown so wild?

SPEAKER_00 18:52

What kills it for me is like you said, that the the people you know smacking their balls over the place and hitting golf carts are like, or just fix your fucking divots, okay? Like just that's the one fucking thing. Fix your gun.

SPEAKER_03 19:04

It's grass, it's grass, Zach. It's a green. No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

It's a green, it's not a it's not just grass, it's the green.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

I'm sorry, I'm chipping from the green. I don't, I'm not very good. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

All right, so I gotta just I love I love that you said green and then Matt's camera just instantly pans to Leo holding a dollar.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Um yeah, it it's more so what stems from this entire debate is I don't blame the content creators, and we'll get into it later. It's more of like the the sick of fanboys and those who just like jump on board and just go to a golf course and never I don't I don't need people to have a handicap index. I don't need them to like maybe hit the range once or twice. Like you have to play for your first time at some point, but I also think you kind of need to have expectations or know at least like when to pick your ball up or not hack up the course or not act like an asshole. Uh I think that's what kind of kills me from like the YouTube golf stem is that it's just made anyone feel like, oh, like you know, here are these guys goofing around and and boozing it up and and talking shit. And it's like, yes, they have a right, they they can do that because they also know how to play golf. And they also have been on the golf course hundreds of times that understand that like they know what the limit is, they know what the line is. And like when you say limit, what do you what do you mean by that? Yeah, like people who don't golf, like they don't put their carts on the tea boxes or like right up to the green. Um like people who just like smash in their club into shit and like keep whacking away or think that they should tee up from like the rough, like things like that.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Like I've like I've played with and you think that YouTube golf is the reason that there's an uptick in people doing that?

SPEAKER_00 20:48

It's a high contributing factor, yes.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

Because I I would argue that that means that you don't watch YouTube golf. Okay, great. That statement no that that statement is indicative of someone that's that that doesn't watch.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

No, I all right. So YouTube golf is it is it tailored more towards someone who's very serious about playing golf or people who are curious about golf but they like the personalities more.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

It's tailored towards the people that would like to be out on the on the course every single day, but have Monday through Fridays nine to five and want to watch people that they feel are like them on the golf course.

SPEAKER_03 21:21

I definitely agree with Mike there, but Zach, I think earlier on in this phenomenon, you were right that we were also starved for action, that the the pot was bigger before, where you did have people coming out, had no respect for the game, and let's be real here. We're uh none of us are good golfers, but part of the fun of golf is respecting the tradition of the game to a certain extent. Not that you have to have your best Rolex on your wrist when you're swinging it, but that you know that you have a pace of play, you know that you need to pick up your ball here because it's not cool for you to make everybody else in the course wait, that kind of stuff. But I have to agree with Mike that. But in the years later, it has shifted into these are people that love golf and suck at it and want to be there and want to do it and have 13 handicaps.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

Well, specifically, Bob does sports. I mean, Bob's like a Bob can't break. I hate to be bringing it, which I love. Uh Joey's a plus 10 handicap. Um, he says that, but I've never seen I've also never seen him break Katie. Uh but I would okay. Let me just frame it to you this way.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

If you were running a sports organization, would you want more people to want to join your sport or less people?

SPEAKER_00 22:40

I mean, you want them to join, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

So if don't join golf, don't you think a simple solution to this would be like every major tournament, if I were the PGA, the Wednesday before, that would be the creator open, the creator masters, and you invite them. And the master PGA.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Yeah, the Masters has the part the uh par three challenge on Wednesday, and this year is the first time they they really expanded it in terms of uh participants. It was always you know, people's uh the the golfers' wives or children or you know, cousins' family. Now they were like bringing on like Jason Kelsey and Kevin Hart, which was like I don't like I don't hate it. I'm not like you don't need it. You don't need it. I I personally don't, but I but I understand why I understand why they were doing it, and it didn't bother me that much. It was it was fine, like it's a useless par three tournament like thing, but like but also like respect the fact that there's golfers with like their small children there too. Let's not make it this like crazy, ridiculous, you know, ruddy thing. I don't know, my bad guys. I'm taking the pricing here. You're taking the pricing here off. We're going over to the uh the PGA hat. My bad. There we go. I'm gonna go back and forth all day.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

There you go. Uh let me let me just ask you a question, another

Women Creators And Growing The Game

SPEAKER_02 24:02

question. Um, sorry to steal your thunder here, Matt. But before Nelly Corda came onto the scene, could you name one L uh LPGA player?

SPEAKER_03 24:14

I don't have to answer that.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Um shall we? Current.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

She's not current?

unknown 24:23

No.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

She was like 15 years ago. Well, I mean, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 24:27

So I do have two Nelly quarter shorts.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Can you can you can you name any female golf content creators?

SPEAKER_03 24:35

Yes, but I went to high school with one of them, so I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Uh which one did you go to high school with?

SPEAKER_03 24:42

I don't know if I'm allowed to say that answer as well. Um it was the little sister of a friend of mine. I can't remember her last name. She made one tournament, and I think that was the end of her career. But she was from Shrewsbury where me and Dave grew up.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

So I can name. How many? Uh listen, the good, good girls. So uni, Marissa, Alexis, uh, I can name obviously Paige. You can name Carol Priscilla, Claire Hogel. Uh I mean, I think they're doing more to bring in women into this the the the game of golf, which which is something that the PGA wanted to do, but could never do it. And now you got girls like Sarah Winter, who was a who was a Miss Canada runner-up and had never touched the clubs and is now a uh a five handicap, and she's playing in the internet invitational for the second year in a row. I don't know. I I I think like I understand your get off my lawn take here, Zach, but I think you just kind of need to accept that YouTube's not ruining golf, it's making it better.

SPEAKER_03 25:49

I think we're being a little harsh with calling it a get off my lawn. I I think you're right, like perfect. His point is that there should be a degree of respect to the game. I think Zach's problem is he doesn't understand YouTube golf because he doesn't like YouTube golf.

Long Videos And Background Viewing

SPEAKER_02 26:07

He won't watch it. He every time I send him a video, he's like, I'll have to check that out.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

No, because sorry, the fact, yes, because you'll send me a video that's an hour and 40 minutes, two hours long, and it's like this is a this is a goddamn movie. So I have to sit here and watch this, and then you say to me, Well, I put it on the background, like if I hear something, and it's like, Well, then what's the point of making a YouTube video? Like, it's is it just to have it on the background? Like, isn't the entire point of a YouTube video to sit and watch the YouTube video? Like, at least, like, at least some of the good, good, and grant videos are 30 minutes long. Like, that's the longest a YouTube video should be. But now it's like it's not like a podcast, but you do throw it on the background and listen to it, it's a golf video. Why wouldn't you watch the golf video? So, yes, you send me you send me something like, Oh, you gotta check this out. I'm like, oh wow, one hour and 57 minutes. I can't wait to like watch five minutes of this and then just forget about it because I have the rest of my day to get through.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

And then he sends me a link, or then he sends me a picture of him and his kid watching golf on television.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Again, that's in the background, and that's in the background. That's fine, that's totally different.

SPEAKER_03 27:09

Why is it different?

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Well, let's talk about it because it's because there's no because there's no like all right, like content creation like in YouTube, and this is like all right, and this maybe is part of me being like coming from like a social media marketing background that like you put a lot of effort into making content, a lot of stuff into like YouTube videos and any sort of videos at all. You want your audience to be engaged and like be all in for it. So if I was someone making these videos, producing these videos, and heard that like, oh yeah, yeah, I throw it on the background and this, I'm like, oh, that would that would kill me.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

Listen, that would kill me. My work setup is I have the computer right in front of me and I have a TV up to the right of me. So when I'm not if I'm in a meeting and I have to mute it, I'll still I'll still pick up and watch. If I'm not making a call, I'll unmute it. It's it's right there.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

So all right, and then for the exact same, and when you you talk about me watching like the tour, like I don't need to have the volume on, I don't need to be fully watching. I'm just yeah, it's just watching guys for you. Yes, yes, absolutely, because they're not trying to make content to have me engaged in it, they're not trying to build up personalities in it.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

It's a sport, it's the same way when you go to a bar and you're listening to a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. You don't think ETA wants you to be engaged in the content that you're watching? You don't think that's a good one?

SPEAKER_00 28:30

No, I'm sure they do, but there's a reason, but there's a reason why when you go to a sports bar, any bar at all, that every TV has sports on, but there's music playing, you don't need the audio. You can sit there and watch, you can have a drink and then look up and check the score out. But like, unless it's you know, unless your team is there or you're invested, or your golfer that you have a bet on, or your golfer that you really like is on, you're not gonna be watching every single guy, every single shot. So I can I can sit there and watch golf and the and watch a pro event in the background. But if it's a YouTube video, like I want to watch the whole video, or in your case, you don't. But I think in right, which is why I don't spend two hours a day trying to do so.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Okay, so I understand what you're saying, but here's what I would offer as a middle of the road.

Internet Invitational And Creator Competition

SPEAKER_02 29:12

The internet invitational is everything that you just said the PGA tour was. It's not about they're not doing hot dog challenges or fucking taco challenges, it's 64 content creators in a tournament, and the best score wins. It's just it would be just like watching a regular PGA tour.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

And I sent those to you, and you do but they're cut, but they're content creators. So, like if I'm watching if I'm watching, all right, so if I'm watching a content creator, I want to watch the content. That's so much to have to consume. They are content creators who are golfing. All you need to do is watch them golf. So that's then then just do a pro am.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

Like, why so why do a high the P the PG the PGA would would not never allow them? They just wouldn't do it. I don't I don't I don't fucking know why they wouldn't allow it, they just wouldn't allow it.

SPEAKER_03 29:58

And they tied into contracts that would not allow them to even approach outside tournaments like that, right? Yes, but the PGA was to blame for a lot of this.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

So I guess my point though is that they are content creators, and like if you like podcasters, like it like I said before, if you're listening to a podcast, even if it is a two-hour podcast, at least you can listen to it while you do anything during your day. If you're watching a YouTube golf video, like I'm watching, I'm gonna sit and watch the video because I want to consume the content. So how do you offer you have to do the middle road?

SPEAKER_02 30:31

But how are you gonna have an internet that's on a middle road? Like, yeah, that that's that the internet invitational is 64 of the top golf content creators going out there and playing a four-day tournament to win.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

So I might as well just watch, so I might as well just watch the regular PGA tour at that point. I'd rather so if I'm gonna have it on the background, I might as well just have the best golfers on earth in the background.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

PGA Tour isn't playing cliffhangers at uh at at Big Cedar, they're not playing regular courses that we all have the ability to play.

SPEAKER_00 30:59

That's a good point. That's great. I don't, but I don't need that. I'd rather watch these guys play at the US Open with ridiculously high fescue and crazy rough and see them actually find their way out of there to get a uh birdie or a parse. Like that's to me, that's more intriguing than having the internet invitational on in the background playing some course that I could play. Like, like I I just don't, it doesn't do it for me. So, like, if the if your point if your point is like I could have the same experience watching a PGA tour event on the week, like uh a weekend PJ tour event.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

No, that was not my point. You it's you kind of sounds like it. No, you said that if if you have to watch a YouTube golf video, you have to pay attention and and you liked watching PGA tours because it's just about the score. And I said, Well, YouTube actually just kind of did it with something like that. They call the internet invitational, where it's just about the scores, but it's not with pro players. So let me ask you so you've never watched the Harlem Globetrotters? You've never watched any you've seen.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

I've never done I've never watched a Harlem Globetrotter. I've seen clips. I've never done no, never got him. No, it disrespects a game of basketball.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

They do. Yeah, Sharif had Dubraheem. He's a big Harlem player.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

I was uh little little side drop on that one. Uh, very disappointed that the graphic had him not in his Portland Trail business jersey. No, that was the number one selling jersey and low. So just uh go back and listen to that episode, folks. Uh that's a good one.

SPEAKER_03 32:27

So let me ask you guys this. I want to bring this back home here because I think we've you guys have gone down two different points, and I have I have a feel for where you both are. Zach, my question to you is gonna be do you not find it, would it not be entertaining to you to watch a golf tournament with a with a twist to it? Something like you have to eat a uh uh uh a ghost pepper wing before you sink your putt? Or if you're competing simply for who is going to win this game when we're both uh 65 over par? And to Mike, my point is uh my question is uh Mike, should people like George Bryant and Brad Docky be removed from things like the internet and uh uh invitational? Is it not fair to have pro-golfers in the mix with these YouTube golfers? And if that's the case, does Zach have a point?

SPEAKER_02 33:14

They're not pro-golfers because the PGA tour revoked their status because they became they wanted to they wanted to share more content and reach a broader audience. So they were pro-golfers, but they're not anymore because again, the the relic that is the PGA decided that we don't want people filming on our courses to show others why they should want to play a great game of golf. So no, I I reject your point, Matt. I understand. Zach, what do you think?

SPEAKER_03 33:44

Can we have some fun with our scoring?

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Uh I mean, sure, but that's what YouTube golf for. Like you know, you watch college basketball? Uh yeah, when March comes around.

SPEAKER_03 33:56

Okay, fair. Great answer, sir. Great answer. Mike, I'm gonna point to you now. Let's talk about it because we've only mentioned them 50,000 times

Why Bob Does Sports Works

SPEAKER_03 34:04

here. Bob does sports, the type of YouTube golf. What makes it work? What makes them work with golf? Why do golfers want to be with them? What are the best moments that we've seen out of them?

SPEAKER_02 34:15

Okay, so you know, like, because we're all not good golfers. Zach Zach Zach could he can he can put together a pretty good round uh every once in a while. I've seen it happen. Um please don't fluff me up like that. Don't pop my tires. You're fluffed. But when you're you're fluffed up. But when you're when you're on the golf course, everybody always says to you, it's all about that one shot that keeps you coming back. And there's one of those by every player on Bob Does Sports, every single video. And it just you just identify with him. I mean, personally, uh the reason why I've been such a fanboy of uh of Bob because I just at I used to think I could beat him. I can't now because he's sniffing 80. I'm not I'm not I'm barely sniffing 95. Um I think his personality is great, and if you know, I I always give credit to people who could who could conduct interviews of anybody anywhere. You you watch Bob does sports and uh and and his LeBron episode. I'm a LeBron hater. LeBron looked really good in that episode, and Bob made him look good. Bob makes everyone he talks to look good, except for Dustin Johnson, because nobody could do that. They they try that's impossible. Such an asshole. They really try, but it's just a combination of I like I like the game of golf. I'm not good at the game of golf. I like to be around people that are, uh, and I like crossovers. And I think when you if he wasn't a good interview, it I I probably wouldn't watch.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

That is you're right. I mean, it it yeah, I can't disagree with that at all. Like he's magnanimous. Yeah, I I think from if we're talking like strictly YouTube and and media perspective, like absolutely, um, I do respect the fact that he's able to get these celebrities, athletes, golfers onto his channel. He's able, I I think like people kind of people do overthink or or they do look past how good interviewing technique is. Um like Howard Stern's like the greatest example of that, right? Like that guy had Beetlejuice and goddamn all these other characters on, and people thought, oh, you're a shock shock, you just have like crazy people on. It's like, no, you gotta know how to like work an interview and and work this personality and make it work for the content you're trying to put out there. Um, so yes, I do wholeheartedly agree that uh Bob Does Sports is a great job of uh you know making these uh making these guests more interesting than they already are, uh fitting it into his content. Um and even someone that you think was already fun and already has a personality, like Josh Allen, like the whole the Buffalo challenge there game, uh, is like a great example of like bringing something more out of a guest than you already thought you had. Yeah. Um so he it's I do respect it. I I can't disagree with that.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

He left such a mark on on the on Josh Allen that he brought him up during a post-game press conference. He did the same thing for Bryson. And I don't think that's I think that's just because of how good of an interview and how good of how good of a of a talk guy, you know, uh Bobby Faraways is. Like if you if I were to tell you to watch one episode, it would be the first time that it was it was him and Paige versus Garrett and uh oh god, Garrett's ex-girlfriend. Yeah um Corinna. And it's just fucking hit. Like this is the first time that Paige has ever I've ever seen her before, and she seems uptight, and he just starts downing transfusions, and he's fucking his he's hitting on her. She knows he's hitting on her. She likes it. She's like, I have pretty good. She's like, You got pretty nice feet. He goes, Oh, yeah, what do you like about him? And like they had to they they had to edit that clip like 16 times because they were both dying. I just think it takes it takes a unique talent to be able to talk to anybody, and he has it. And in that very episode, he made his own eagle and his his chip in was from like 95 yards out, and he hold it. It was unbelievable. That that's the one shot. So you're like, if he can do that, I can do that.

SPEAKER_03 38:36

Playing with your boys, watching that chip go in. Bob does page, some of the best content out there. Highly recommend anybody listening to go. But you mentioned him, you brought up the the the 90-ton hippo in the room.

Bryson’s Rebrand And Authenticity

SPEAKER_03 38:49

Bryson's a shambo. Mr. Ant Hill. Mr. He's photographing me. His when his job was to be a photographer, turned into the sweetheart of the internet. Zach.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

What are you gonna say about Bryson? I'll say this about Bryson. Uh oh, the hats back on. The hats back on, so that's first and foremost. Um I don't blame Bryson if he wants to become like a YouTube golfer full time. I really don't. Like he's won two US opens. Uh he's had success on the tour, he went to live, he's got his money. Uh if he's happier doing YouTube golf, by all means, go do it, man. But are you gonna do that or are you gonna be on the tour? Because he can't have that video where he's like, Oh, I missed three cuts, let's talk about it. It's like, all right, like, do you actually want to talk about it, or are you just using your failures on the course to get you more views on your YouTube channel?

SPEAKER_03 39:52

Well, let me ask you this is he an asshole or is he a nice guy? Because I can't tell anymore since his YouTube channel.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

I I just don't think Bryson is I just don't know if he knows how to be authentic. Yeah, some people like get into a certain lane, like he came up as like the scientist and all this other like I'm gonna be a nerd type of thing, and where this hat came from. And then then he decided to just bulk up and just smash like Bryson smashing 400 yard drives was my favorite form of Bryson. That was my that was my favorite period of his career, was him just getting absolutely just chunky and then just mashing these drives over huge uh bodies of water that you're not even supposed to even consider smashing them over. Um, and then so bay so bahill. Right, right, right. Bahill. Um, so yes, like I think he went from like the nerd to the smasher, and then uh he went over to live, and then he's YouTube golf, and then he's won the US Opens in between as kind of like a throw-in. Like it doesn't really feel like it never really felt like it was a he was competitive at the Masters two years in a row. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He really I'm not yeah, I'm not saying like he wasn't competitive or wasn't good. He's a very talented golfer, of course. But yeah, he's not it doesn't feel like someone say like a Rory who was like chasing that masters for so long that like that was like his purpose, like whereas like the US Open for Bryson just felt like, hey, here's something great I can put on my bio for my YouTube page.

SPEAKER_03 41:22

Trump International did look delightful that day for the celebration dinner. Um now what when it comes to Mike, when it comes to Bryson, we've seen a a wide variety. Would you have ever thought back in 2021 that we'd all be sitting here talking about how he's not that bad of a guy and not having mentioned Brooks Kapka one time?

SPEAKER_02 41:45

Yeah. So I think uh Bryson had an identity crisis in the PGA tour. He wanted to be a thoughtful, like shepherd of the history of the game. Uh he's very well and he wasn't good at fan interactions, and that was that was true. And I I do think I think yes, he used YouTube to be um to get more sympathy. I think he was chasing YouTube subscribers like Rory was chasing that sideline reporter. But at the end of the day, I think he I think he kind of grew up, and he realized that he takes he takes golf really seriously. You can tell he takes golf really seriously. And I I I don't like the fact or accept the argument that in order to be a serious golfer, you cannot have a YouTube channel. I don't I don't buy it. I just I I don't I think that's I don't think that that's right. I think he wants to and to support that point.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

I mean, like there's so many NBA players that have podcasts and and YouTube channels too.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

So right, like Draymond's not getting shit on because he the the podcasts. Yeah, yeah. I think the podcast did. Uh and before that it was the radio shows. Like quarterbacks would always go and have radio shows in the offseason, or they would come into the month in the month after. So the fact that that we're saying, well, he can have it both ways, again, if you want to find him for going to Lib, sure. If he comes back to the PGA, do all of that. But if you say like he cannot create content on the courses uh on Tuesday or Wednesday, that as we the data has shown, has grown the game. If if he can make a million dollars less a year by filming at you know Dallas Fort Worth uh municipal and playing two strangers, do that. I couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

Now let

PGA Filming Limits And Missed Chances

SPEAKER_00 43:34

me ask you this. And you you mentioned uh you mentioned that he so they the the tour is prohibiting guys from making content on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, the practice rounds. Yes. Yeah, I mean that that that part of it is bullshit. It is bullshit.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

It's a problem you can you can only film for two minutes and ten seconds, and it cannot be uh this is true.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

Like this is this is his this is the Twitter the Twitter video link basically.

SPEAKER_02 43:58

Yeah, and and he's like an And you can't do it continuously. So it cannot be the same two minutes and ten seconds. That's why I said, like, listen, the PGA would be so fucking smart if they were like every Wednesday, aside from the masters, like whatever signature event or open, we're opening that to content creators. And if you want to say if you shoot five under that day, you actually earn a spot into the actual event, fucking do it. Like, there are so many ways that you can grow this game. So many ways. And they're just like now.

SPEAKER_03 44:27

Let me ask you this though. When it comes to Bryson, when it comes to Bryson, who would you rather watch him play? Would you rather watch him versus Rory in a head-to-head matchup where they hate each other and they're not going to communicate much and you know whatever Rory's got going on, Rory's got going on. Or would you rather watch him out there versus the Bryan brothers? Or would you rather watch him out there with Rick Shields? What where do you stand on his viewership value?

SPEAKER_00 44:55

I mean, for me personally, I'd rather watch him play Rory. That's just I mean, that's just me. Like, I I I watch the tour every week. I enjoy watching the top golfers in the world compete against each other. That's interesting to me. I know from a lot of average Americans or average golf fans, they don't find that interesting. They'd rather see him interact with a Tom Brady or a Trump or whoever else. And I don't blame people for that. Um, but like if if he's a top-tier golfer, I want to see him play top-tier golfers. That's interesting to me. Call me the old man, whatever. It's fine.

SPEAKER_03 45:33

Hey, listen, Mike, my guy likes the sport, he likes to watch elite athletes. What do you think?

SPEAKER_02 45:39

I don't think it has to be either or either or. But if you're asking me in this scenario, would I rather see Bryson play golf with Barack Obama or Donald Trump or or or against uh Rory? It's gonna be it's gonna be the former. It's going to be because I I've seen Rory. I know what he does. And uh up until when he when he doesn't have the ability to uh to rent a condo and s and and stay at the facility and play for four weeks straight, nine times out of ten he's gonna choke. Uh I and I again Bryson was not good with interactions, he was terrible at fan interactions.

SPEAKER_04 46:20

The worst.

SPEAKER_02 46:21

I'm no fan of the current president. You know this. I watched Break 50 with Donald Trump, and the interview was great. I thought it was I thought it was it was fun to fucking watch because it not everything has to be so goddamn serious. And I don't know. Uh I that's just kind of where I am.

SPEAKER_03 46:40

And I lean very heavily towards agreeing with you, Mike.

SPEAKER_00 46:42

And I will say this my biggest, this is like my one biggest point about Bryson is again, I don't blame him if he wants to make content, I don't blame him if he wants to only show up for the the majors. My biggest gripe is the Bryson fanboys, without a doubt. And you I'm watching it at the US Open and all the I'm not gonna call him Patreons because I'm not an asshole, but the fans there being like, yeah, Bryson, let's go. Yeah, and he chips in for plus 10. Like it's not like when Tiger was trying to make his comeback and and you know he already had you know 81 tour wins and 14 major championships. It's not like he you're trying to see the comeback of the greatest golfer arguably in history. It's Bryson DeChambeau. Like, with all due respect, it's Bryson DeShambeau. You know, he won two US opens. Great. Like, I it's not just to say he sucks, it's just to say like you have fanboys going crazy all because they watch his YouTube videos and they think he's doing something great when he can't even make the fucking cut. That's where my gripe, that's where my whole entire like that is the premise of my entire I hate YouTube golf argument comes from is the fact that you have people watching the tour and following Bryson. The worm before, no, not the worm before, but the fact that they're going crazy. Oh, this why didn't he do this? And it's like, dude, like fucking YouTube golf is not the same as an actual tour event, it's not the same. And you're fanboying Bryson, who doesn't give a shit or doesn't give his full effort. And if he actually gave his full effort, maybe he'd win that uh that open championship, or maybe he actually win the masters, but he can't because he's too busy doing three different things, trying to figure out his personality and try to please everyone. So it's my my hatred, my my gripe goes against the fanboys, not necessarily Bryson.

SPEAKER_02 48:28

So you actually you either hate the PGA in reality for forcing Bryson to make the decision that he could not do both, or you hate Bryson for uh for fighting back and saying, I'm not going to conform to what you want me to do. Because he took the opportunity with Liv to make yes more money, but they also said you can just you can film, do whatever you want, because they know that it's that they they need more people to watch. So yeah, you don't like the Bryson fanboys. Mike counted that would be five years ago. They weren't they weren't at that event, they didn't care about golf. Now they're they're there, they're buying merch, and the PGA is profiting off them. So capitalize on it. Well, good for them. I I still hate them.

SPEAKER_03 49:10

I hate them as well. Um, I do think when Zach I think Zach's biggest benefit in this whole argument is that there is a negative aspect of YouTube golf, and he it might not be as severe as he's as he's as he feels it is. Um, he feels the impact more because he clearly loves this game and loves the sport for the sport.

SPEAKER_02 49:30

Um, but he loves the sport for the elite people that play it.

SPEAKER_00 49:33

He doesn't care about the rest of the hold on, hold on, hold on.

SPEAKER_02 49:37

What what is that what does that mean, Mike? What does that mean? You you've said the in in your last little diatribe, you said like you get all of the Bryson fanboys that just watch YouTube golf and they're there's cheer, they're they're cheering him on when he when he hit hits a chip in and he's plus ten. Yeah, and you don't care about that. You would rather see fucking Seth Alwa, who you you who most people couldn't pick out of a fucking lineup, uh do do great.

SPEAKER_00 50:01

I mean you could because he weighs like 95 pounds, but you know.

SPEAKER_02 50:05

Uh but you care about that's not a racist. Whoops. Ex exactly. It's proved my point for me. Um, so yeah, you would rather just watch the elite that the best that that there is uh uh at the sport play. And then the rest of it, yeah. There's there's no time for it. You don't want you don't you don't want it. You understand that it's there, but you need to see it. Okay, get on.

SPEAKER_00 50:31

Would you feel the same way if this was another sport? Like put it like if it was baseball or hockey, like a sport that like you can't go out and play.

SPEAKER_03 50:42

Like Mike, when's the last time you went to Pee Wee football?

SPEAKER_00 50:46

Did you watch the All-Star game? Yesterday's? Yeah, I was falling asleep during it, but sure. I think what was it?

SPEAKER_02 50:52

Because I came here to record. What was the what was the best moment of the all-star game?

SPEAKER_00 50:57

Uh that dude from the White Sox smashing an absolute bomb in the left field. That was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 51:03

Matt false. It was when the player got hit with the ball. You're both wrong. It was during the game when they recreated the scene from the sand lot and shot off the fireworks.

SPEAKER_00 51:12

Oh, yeah, I missed that part. I I wasn't watching then. I was too busy. I was too busy falling asleep to uh to cars for the third time with my daughter. So that was fun. So good stuff.

SPEAKER_02 51:20

So I'm not opposed to any sport trying to grow the game. Baseball needs to grow the game. And they did they they knew that in the 90s. So where did they go? They started it's literally, well, yes, but naturally, they went to the Dominican Republic.

unknown 51:35

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 51:35

They they start they they literally said we need to grow this game. There is there is a subsection of people that absolutely love baseball, and we've not we've not done anything to market to them. So what do they do? Every major league team dedicated the scout to the Dominican Republic, and then we get some of the greatest players of our lifetime to come from that. So, yes, when a sport recognizes that there is a need to grow, and there is actually a fan uh and a player need that wants to be part of the game, you should capitalize on that. PGA is the only sport that won't do it.

SPEAKER_00 52:11

And I and MLB and MLB does a great job of blacking out local games on MLB TV. So great job to Major League Baseball. Like, you know, you want to talk about like the PGA being old and this and that. Like, dude, nothing is dumber than MLB TV blacking out local games when every other sport. Well, basketball does it too, but uh, at least the tour, you can watch every single round, every single shot in marquee matchups. But like Major League Baseball, they're just awful with that. I digress. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 52:41

But Mike, I want to that that by the way, uh, hold on. Sorry, sorry, go for it real quick, Matt. Uh Zach, were there any marquee matchups before YouTube golf?

SPEAKER_00 52:53

Uh I I don't remember because I I only had uh ESPN plus for a fair amount of time, so I'm not sure. So probably so probably not. So like I yes, point to you, Michael. Yes, point to you.

SPEAKER_02 53:07

That's just like the fact that that's just like the the we would never have the type of uh coverage of the NFL if it had it not been for the XFL. SkyCam was an XFL creation. There are things that that they that the PGA has incorporated based off of either the match or off uh uh uh YouTube golf. So I would just say there have been improvements that have been made because of the thing that you hate the most. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 53:31

Well, you know what, Mike? It brings me to my last question for you. I think this is an important question for us to to land on here, Mike. You've been very positive of YouTube golf, and I understand I'm on your side for the for the almost 90% of the the debate here. I also, Zach, you have made me consider a lot of things about the outskirts of the followers that have uh impacted the game. Mike, are there YouTube golfers that are damaging the game?

SPEAKER_02 53:56

Yes, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 53:57

And who are they? Let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 54:00

Uh so I think I I I don't want to take shots at content creators while we're trying to create while we're trying to create content, you know? Um I think there are people that uh that enter into YouTube golf for the wrong reasons. Yes, and you can tell by the channel and by how the the events go, right? Like um I I listed out what six or seven uh female content creators. Yes, are they all are they all attractive for sure? Uh but they can all they can all play. There have been uh female golf creators that just played like in bikinis. I think that's disgusting. I I honestly I think that's that's a that's a travesty to the game. I think that there are guys uh go that go out there to see like, you know, let's let's do let's do like a whole keg stand and then play around a golf and they tear up a golf course. I think that is bad for golf. I do. I don't think because you still have to show respect to the course, like like Zach has has said before. But I would say that if you get a hundred more people to participate in the game, five or six are gonna be shit shitheads, and that's in any aspect. And to I would just say, like, is that are are you willing to to risk five or six bad to for 95 to 94 good? And I'd say yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:33

Absolutely. If you had to get rid of one, good, good, Bryson or Page, which one would you keep? Okay, well, I'm not I'm not getting rid of it. And what is the perfect cup size?

SPEAKER_02 55:43

Um uh hers, and I would say uh I'd get rid of Bryson.

SPEAKER_03 55:53

I agree.

SPEAKER_02 55:54

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 55:55

Yeah, because we can still catch him Thursday through Sunday. Uh Thursday through Friday.

SPEAKER_02 56:00

Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, four times a year. Okay, okay. Uh well you can catch him on the CW when he plays at at the municipal course in Australia.

SPEAKER_00 56:08

Well, no, they they now they're now on uh uh FS2, I believe. So now it's you know they they moved up them big leagues.

SPEAKER_03 56:14

Can we all agree, John, that the tigerwoods league sucked also?

TGL, Sim Golf, And What Counts

SPEAKER_03 56:18

Tigerwoods what is Tiger Woods little computer league with the field of the city. Oh the TGL?

SPEAKER_00 56:24

Oh yeah, the TGL is completely useless. I think it's I don't understand. No, you don't, Mike.

SPEAKER_03 56:32

No, you don't.

SPEAKER_02 56:32

No, you do not.

SPEAKER_03 56:34

I thought it was so boring.

SPEAKER_02 56:35

I only watch when when Jupiter Golf Club is playing, but yes, okay, fair.

SPEAKER_00 56:39

You actually know what I actually know, stop. You do not watch the TGL. There's no way only when Tiger is playing. Why?

SPEAKER_02 56:49

Because when you when I I I love Tiger that much. Um, but when you get him mic'd up and you hear his teammates say, like, he goes, like, what's the yardage? and they say 199, and he's getting old, he hears 99, so he gets a pitching wedge from 200 yards out, and he ends up 100 yards short in the fucking simulator water. That is hysterical. That's hysterical. That was why when you get his when you get his kid mic'd up in the stand saying you suck at golf, that's the kind of stuff that will Tiger needed a makeover as well. Like again, remember, Tiger was getting uh was catching seven irons across the face from his ex-wife. And what did he do to rehabilitate his image? It was it was his tournament down in the Bahamas when he played with Charlie. That's when we first saw Charlie. That's when we first saw Nelly. I mean, when golf needs to get better, they bring in outside talent and out and and and not professional golfers. And what happens? People become more likable. But yes, I do watch the I do watch CGL.

SPEAKER_00 57:51

I just I cannot bring myself to even like if I'm working at the bar and I see it on TV, I'm like, I'd rather play like reruns of like the Super Bowl 20 years ago. I'm like, I have no use to watch even like top golfers playing a simulator. I I can't do it.

SPEAKER_02 58:07

Sorry, I have zero use for only when I watch the top golfers play on courses that you could never play. That's what you want to do.

SPEAKER_00 58:13

And yeah, sometimes I don't want to, I just don't want to watch a simulator. I'm sorry, that's just dumb. I I don't I don't I don't I can't do it.

SPEAKER_03 58:23

I would do a watch party for the first match, and I remember being like, I'll never do this again. Jeez Louise.

SPEAKER_02 58:29

I mean, the green moves that they they they bring in actual sand from some of the best golf courses, and it's pretty difficult. I don't care.

SPEAKER_00 58:36

I'm sorry, I don't care. I just don't like on and no, this no, this will actually blow your mind. I'm gonna switch the bryson for this one. They they should have the TGL. The TGL should be for the YouTube golfers. Like, that's that's what they should do.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

Yes, I agree. Why? I would watch that. Well, you're gonna watch you and Matt, you and I are gonna watch it anyway. I'm gonna watch Bob all the time.

SPEAKER_00 58:59

Yes, like they'll still have their YouTube channel, but if you're gonna have a TGL league where it's like like a program style, do it there.

SPEAKER_03 59:07

All right, Zach. Let's let's bring it up.

LIV Vs YouTube As A Product

SPEAKER_03 59:09

Zach, I fair question here. And I think anybody listening that has any respect for golf whatsoever will know the correct answer here. Live or YouTube.

SPEAKER_00 59:19

Oh, YouTube, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:22

Which one?

SPEAKER_00 59:24

Like which one would you rather consume? Which one would you rather consume? Live or YouTube? Oh, YouTube, yes.

SPEAKER_03 59:30

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 59:30

Yeah. Uh no, the the the entire point of live golf was to just screw with the tour. Uh try to either get an acquisition deal or or or you know, just screw with uh a part of American culture that was uh yeah, it was it was just there's there's a get off my line guy again. No, but it no no, but like it's it's hard to talk, it's hard to not talk about the geopolitical side of live golf.

SPEAKER_03 59:56

Like it's the whole purpose was geopolitical, right?

SPEAKER_00 59:59

Like it's very upfront with that.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:01

Uh because there's no they joined the human rights commission after Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia joined live golf. I highly recommend any listeners read the book The House of Saud. Amazing read.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:13

So it's hard to not bring it up, and it's also just so the PGA the PGA was was always good to people that looked like Tiger.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:20

That's what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:22

No, no, not no not at all. And that's why and that's why Tiger Woods was like such a massive impact on the sport.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:28

I in the 90s, in the 1990s.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:32

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:32

Is this what is this what Tyloo felt like with Alan Iverson stepping over him right there?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:37

But but like I guess like I'm just saying, like from a a product perspective, like it's it's live is confusing, it doesn't make sense. They don't they actually their broadcast is piss poor. Uh they miss but they miss shots. They it just doesn't there's no uh at least with like TGL, I'll give credit that like they have city affiliations, like a Jupiter golf club or like Boston Common Golf. Like right, at least they try to make some sort of hometown feel with that. It just doesn't make like oh the crushers, like oh cool, crushers, where are they located? Nowhere, okay, cool. Yeah, they live, they just live, they're there.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:15

I would just say, um, I'm gonna I really want you to watch the invitational this year because I I do think that you'll be pleasantly surprised.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:24

So do I have to watch it or can I just have in the background and then I flip over when I feel like it?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:28

Gentlemen, I think we have to go.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:30

I think you I think you do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:33

We have to go to the invitational or or get off the podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:36

Go to the invitational, we watch the invitational.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:38

You're you're you're very uh you're made me think that I had to get off this podcast. I was a little uh okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:45

Um no, I I would say why don't you try consuming it the way that you would consume a day round of just and just see what it is. To your point, the production value of Live is so bad, but the in the internet imitational has four cameramen on every hole and a GoPro in every golf cart. Like you don't miss anything. And I just think you would actually Is it live? Uh they they will release it in stages. So it's not live. It's it's recorded over four days and then they release it like three months later. So is it live? It was live at one point.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:23

Michael, is it live? It's a recording of a live event. It's exactly Michael, is it live? It was. I I'm gonna ask Michael, is it live? It would be new to you.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:37

Mike, you're gonna have to answer the question.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:39

I can't. I can't.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:41

Uh it was at one point in time it was live. It was recorded, and you will have you'll have to watch it in stage.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:47

You you just can't you can't bring yourself to just say no, it's okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:52

No, he's not gonna back down from it. And I love it so much. I will say this, Zach. In this debate, you made me think a lot. Uh, you definitely swayed me on a lot of points that uh I hadn't quite considered before. I still stand firmly with Mike. Um, I think we have I think we have these stands that I you know what I think it comes down to to taste. I think it comes down to taste, and you want to watch excellent games. You don't want to watch college basketball in December. I understand. Sometimes it's fun to watch a bunch of fat dudes eat donuts and and duff shots. It it just it's just a different absorption of the same product.

Tiger Woods Vs YouTube Legacy

SPEAKER_03 1:03:26

Boys, we're gonna close with this one thing, and I don't think we even really need to close with this. Uh 20 years from now, who has a bigger impact on the game of golf? Is it Tiger or is it YouTube?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:37

I mean, 20 years from now, we're talking uh 2046.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:43

So of course just from uh time wise I think the question is is 20 years from now in the twenty in the in the tw in the 20 years that Tiger was in his prime versus 2020 to 2040, what grew the game of golf more?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:03

And I would say not to be a dick, but I don't think you I don't think you can objectively say Tiger I So my my only I would say this is that when I think of Tiger Woods and his impact to the game of golf, the tour, it gave people who didn't have opportunities, who uh especially like we we talked about there were courses that even Tiger couldn't play because of the color of his skin.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:39

Um couldn't use dressing rooms, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:40

Couldn't use dress like there were a lot of restrictions still, uh and it brought and it brought that to light. Um and so I think it made a lot of young Americans, especially uh golfers even like um like a Tony Finau type who he's said like if it wasn't for Tiger Tiger Woods, he probably wouldn't have gotten into golf. A lot of the tour players who play now like get all giddy when they get a chance to play with Tiger Woods. Um it's it is a different kind of influence that Tiger had and impact than YouTube. And I think so I I think with Tiger it it allowed a young uh generation of prospective golfers, athletes, kids who again like you know, they were they all they saw growing up or you know, a lot of the the the golf pros were right, like uh white guys of blonde hair, blue eyes, and just that certain aesthetic. Uh even though you know Gary player of South Africa, but again, like you know, another white dude out there. Um it it gave a different look to what golf could be. Uh and he also had like the personality to go with it, too. He had fire. he had charisma I mean on course charisma I should say um yeah and he had he had wafflehouse charisma I mean yeah no no no it's Parkins let's let's correction it's Parkinson um but sorry uh waffle house so so it's uh so the impact for tiger I think uh like kind of opened the gates for a lot of Americans a lot of young Americans I think YouTube golf makes it makes those makes people kind of feel like or makes younger I don't want to say kids though because I don't think I don't know how much kids are really consuming YouTube golf the same way that kids were watching Tiger Woods and playing like and tiger woods had his own video game too like the numbers are crazy I would just and between like I'm just saying if the if if there was no smartphone Zach I would say like yeah but now 100% and anyone can watch anyone can have golf at the tip at the at the palm of their hand I think here's how I would frame this to you because I think that you're right I people like you know how we look back at guys like uh Larry Magic and I don't know Larry Magic and Bill Russell you can't deny their greatness ever but when you say who did more for the game of basketball was it Bill Russell Larry Bird Magic Johnson or Michael Jordan everyone's gonna say Michael Jordan now people are gonna say LeBron Steph.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:32

So I think in years from now it's gonna say the the impact no one's gonna question the greatness but for the game of golf did Tiger do more to bring people in than a whole generation of content creators I don't know that you're gonna be able to say yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:49

So I think that crossing the racial barrier is more important than what Bill Russell did.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:54

I think crossing the racial barrier yeah I'm not saying like an I know I know what you mean I know what you mean so I for fans no I think like the analogy is actually pretty great because people always talk about how Magic and Larry save basketball they save the NBA and then Jordan just brought it to a different level like Tiger Woods saved golf and he he expanded it to a crazy audience and uh prospective golfers and future golfers and YouTube golf might be oh god I hate I hate them saying that YouTube golf to Michael Jordan in this situation.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:33

I hate him saying that but at the same time like it it is reaching this global audience the same way Michael reached a global audience uh with the 90s bulls that right uh that if you don't have tiger woods you don't have youtube golf which again this goes back to the very beginning if it wasn't for the match you don't have youtube golf but uh before we wrap up and I'll I'll take over the hosting duties again here Matt thank you so much you did great I thank god

Final Takes And Sign-Off

SPEAKER_02 1:09:00

I didn't know what I was doing out of ten Matt 10 out of 10 would recommend five stars i uh I would just say Zach do you watch full swing I watched the first three seasons I watched one episode of the latest one and then I was like I'm good dude it gets way better so you did partake in content creators with golf yep I did okay I find I guess I find it more interesting to to see uh the personalities behind those elite athletes than I do seeing the uh the athletic abilities of content creators great response love that that's a great response thank you that's what I want your podcast for it's just great responses so you're welcome I really I really appreciate the question you uh you be your your willingness to have this debate I know that you uh being so steadfast against YouTube golf in a podcast that will be airing on YouTube is uh very interesting but I'm I'm here for it so for Maddie Wilcox thank you so much for the hosting Zach Gray my best man this is Mike Marcangelo saying thank you for listening to Miss in the point check out the open this week and we will talk to you next week