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Dec. 15, 2020

#23 - The Patriots are dead! Long live the Patriots!

#23 - The Patriots are dead! Long live the Patriots!

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#21 - Patriots and NFL Coaches on the Hot Seat
#22 - Cheap Heat: Montreal Screwjob

On this episode of Missing the Point, we'll take a look at the New England Patriots as their streak of 11 consecutive AFC East titles has come to an end. And with the path to the playoff officially closed, we'll start to look forward to see how the Patriots can get back to the top of the mountain in 2021.
We'll also discuss all the biggest storylines coming out of the NFL and week, and we'll travel back in time to 1995, the last time the Buffalo Bills won the AFC East.

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Transcript
Craig D'Alessandro:

On this episode of missing point, we'll take a look at the New England Patriots as their streak of 11 consecutive AFC East titles has come to an end. And with the path to the playoff officially closed, we'll start to look forward to see how the Patriots can get back to the top of the mountain in 2021. We'll also discuss all the biggest storylines coming out of the NFL and week. 13 will also travel back in time to 1995 the last time the Buffalo Bills win the AFC East. But first some housekeeping. missing the point it's a one hour weekly podcast recapping the biggest stories in the world of sports with the New England flavor. The show notes and transcript from today's episode can be found in the description box below, as well as on our website, www dot MTP show.com. If you're new to the show, please consider subscribing. It's the easiest way to see we publish new episodes. We are on iTunes, Spotify, Google and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to rate us and leave a review of any of our shows. We always appreciate your feedback. Also, be sure to follow us on all of our social medias. All of our links will be in the show notes and check out our brand new website WWW dot MTP show.com that's MTP show.com. And now this is missing the point Episode 23. But it's all relative.

Joe Malkin:

Welcome everybody into missing the point. I'm Joe Malkin joined tonight by Dave Clarke and Mike Markangelo. And of course, the greatest EP we could ever find. He found us. Craig D'Alessandro guys, how are we doing tonight?

Michael Marcangelo:

Awesome. Yep, good, man. I'm just ready to get into it.

Joe Malkin:

Ready to get into it good. Because we have a lot to talk about tonight. We're gonna start with the AFC East. A big part of the weekend in the NFL was the AFC East and the fact that the New England Patriots have officially been disqualified, if you will. They've been knocked out of the race for the AFC East title. It'll be the first time in 12 years they won the last 11 straight. that have been the first time in the last 12 years in the New England Patriots cannot win the AFC title. And that was after a very disappointing 24 to three loss to the Los Angeles Rams last Thursday night to kick off week 14 after coming off a 45 to nothing when also in LA against the chargers. So my first question to Mike, what happened to the Patriots in LA after winning in LA?

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, I think I think what happened was, you know, the Chargers were a team that patriots match up against Well, just if for no other reason. It's because Bill Belichick just lives rent free. In every head of rookie quarterbacks. He just does. He always does so well against them. That was a great game, not by cam, but by the team. It was a really good game. And then they just they just got their asses kicked by the Rams. I would say like the Rams are a top tier, you know, NFL team, they're like probably the lower half of that tier. And they just they ran all over us. They throw over us and it was embarrassing. That Cam Newton throws a pick six on a screenplay. When's the last time you saw that happen? So I think what happened, you know, Cam Newton can never be down by more than seven points and win a game in this offense. Maybe it's not his fault. Maybe it is. I haven't really wrapped my head around that. All I know is that I think belcheck was lulled into a false sense of security after the win against the chargers. And they just he had his absolute ass ass whupped in there in the Rams game.

Joe Malkin:

We've seen it already a couple times this year with the Chargers where Anthony Lin, the head coach of the Los Angeles chargers make some questionable coaching decisions. He did it again this weekend. But he ended up winning. But he did again this weekend. And he did it against the Patriots on multiple occasions and they have a rookie quarterback. So you're absolutely right, Mike, the matchup was better against the chargers and then the Los Angeles Rams who they've they've seen before. It's basically the same team they played in the Super Bowl a few years ago. Same quarterback, a lot of the same defensive players, they really bolster. I mean, that defense is probably underrated. I think it's definitely one of the best defenses in the NFL. But Dave from from your standpoint, our New England Patriots spent two weeks out in Los Angeles which is your neck of the woods and and you got a smirk on your face already. So I don't know where you're gonna go with this. But what I mean, what do you what do you have to say about the New England Patriots? And what have you heard out in LA? Um,

Dave Clarke:

ah, guys, I'm sorry. This is such a bummer to watch. You just roll around like this is insane. I was putting on my misery weeks ago on this season. Um,

Joe Malkin:

you put yourself out of the out of your own misery. Yeah, there's, this is gonna be season over.

Dave Clarke:

We're gonna I knew though I knew I could see why. Every week there my team I can see how thin they were and I was right so here we are I I just want to talk you guys through like your processing here because to answer your question like the last time I saw a team throw a pic six on a screen pass was Cam Newton through faster. Julian Edelman he scooped it like a baby and threw it to the that was the season it was only a few weeks ago. You might blocked it out, which is fine.

Michael Marcangelo:

No, that was the Chiefs game and it can wasn't playing.

Dave Clarke:

Oh, who would who threw that pass? Then?

Joe Malkin:

Brian Hoyer but also just a disclaimer. So they've

Dave Clarke:

designed to play for all quarterbacks? That's good. Oh,

Michael Marcangelo:

yeah.

Joe Malkin:

Quick PSA. Don't throw babies.

Dave Clarke:

Yeah, no, don't don't I always did think that expression throw the baby out with the bathwater. Like, who did that, that they had to come up with that anyway? So that's the answer that question. Um, it's funny how then the Rams been in the Patriots has now become a discussion through England fan base.

Unknown:

Well, you know, the ribs aren't that bad.

Joe Malkin:

This isn't out of here. But they weren't. They weren't to begin with.

Dave Clarke:

I know. But like, you know, I did listen, last week and I my heart went out to you guys, as I heard you all, just amp yourselves up. For the Patriots comeback season. Bill Belichick is a genius again, he's gonna he's gonna go out there and he's on the road, and he's going to get this huge victory, it's going to swing momentum back our way. And I had a sneaking suspicion. I wasn't on the show. So I can just say that I predicted this sneaking suspicion that that the Rams were going to be beat up on you guys. Mainly because you can't move the ball. And like it's a very unpatriotic quality to have. And I'm sure it's like taking a lot of getting used to watching it. But watching the bears this year and watching the Patriots on offense is a very similar experience. It's it's incredibly for cornerback

Joe Malkin:

is better than no matter which one.

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, which whichever one it is, I mean, the difference between the bears and the Patriots is like they have the personnel on the bears to move the ball. They just don't.

Dave Clarke:

They're like the opposite of one another. It's like we have the people but not the coaching and the decision making. You guys have the coaching the decision making but not the personnel. I totally agree with you.

Joe Malkin:

So if the bears if the bears had belcheck as their head coach, they would have you know, two losses, I would kill each of you individually. If so that's gonna be one of our conversations that comes up in our live show. this coming Sunday is coaches in the NFL, we've already mentioned Anthony Lynn. And David so interesting. You bring that up because you you brought that up in our Slack channel on Thursday night like you guys really talked yourselves into that into a win against the Rams. And that was myself rayshawn and Bob Kelly that were on the show last weekend. So Episode 21 down on the show notes. Your turn. Did

Dave Clarke:

you guys talk yourselves into Jared Stidham at the start of the season, and I knew you're talking yourself into that too. Before went they went? I can't do another? How much better would have been or worse it would have been but I you know, I think that this is a this is a growing pain of a season you're it's very difficult for you guys to process having a bad football team, which is totally understandable because it's been a long time since you've had a bad football team. But it's never been this bad.

Michael Marcangelo:

I mean, they look at me Mac Oh, well. It has been what I'm saying when I say it's never been this bad under Bill Belichick I mean that first year five and 11 Sure.

Dave Clarke:

It could be as simple as a lot of bills tricks, like you always have to speculate about Bilbo checks the thing because you're never gonna get any from it's like trying to get blood from a stone, trying to get information on how he does his job. But it could be as simple as a lot of the stuff that bill figures out. He figures out in the preseason and we had a truncated you know, non existent preseason and sort of a truncated intro into the season. Maybe that's where he spends a lot of the time getting his guys ready. Maybe that's where he spends a lot of like, it's such a weird season that like I don't think you can completely write off the the Patriots in to that degree because you do have to double check. So it makes sense when you guys talk yourself into stuff because it's like, that's a pretty extreme drop off from being in the shoe. But what is it two years ago now? Yep. So that's not to say that Bill Belichick isn't still a good coach. You don't you know, you still have the best coach of all time as your coach. So it makes sense to be like, Oh, you know what, maybe this is that was the problem. We're turning things around.

Michael Marcangelo:

I think it just says like without, without Tom Brady or an elite level quarterback right Bill Belichick the coach cannot out coach the awful decisions of Bill Belichick the GM. That's what we're seeing. Right. So I listened to the show last week. And I was part of the whole amping up process. I know this is like his best coaching performance. But that's kind of bullshit, right? Because he gives himself the players so he feeds himself crap. And then awards himself like Coach of the Year by getting them to nine seven because they were crap. And they had a winning season. He did it to himself. Now I know that this year was different. I think you hit the nail on the head there with the preseason. I think he uses the preseason to figure out the roleplayers right like the second level.

Dave Clarke:

He's that's why you always get like a crazy running back. You've never heard of coming out and yeah, good season, you know, like this also

Michael Marcangelo:

Malcom Butler seavers.

Dave Clarke:

Yeah, but that just hasn't emerged this season. That's the biggest difference. So maybe, you know, maybe there's something to that.

Joe Malkin:

When it comes when it comes down to, and it's not excuse making it's just the truth, right? So we're saying and he finds his role players. In the preseason, which he didn't have this year, he waited. It wasn't as bad as the gronkowski situation where he retired, like two days after or two days, yeah, two days after, they could have signed Jared cook. And they were waiting to see what gronkowski was going to do. I have my feelings on gronkowski. And you all know really what they are. I think the guys, I mean, I think the Patriots have what they got what they had coming to him in a lot of ways, because I think they screwed him over in a few medical areas of the game. But then he comes into this year, Brady makes his decision, kind of late. But then he sits around and waits. I mean, we had a How long was the list of free agent, quarterbacks this offseason, that he could have gone out and picked up? I haven't even

Dave Clarke:

worked out, you know what I mean? Like it would have made a difference.

Joe Malkin:

It Philip Rivers, I think would have made a difference. But I mean, but Dave, I think part of the part of what you're you've said all season long is how do you also expect to win when you had the most players opt out due to COVID? Hands off that I was just about to say that. And when you have a pile of crap as your special specialist on offense, it was a situation where if he had come out, and you would never do this in the NFL, whether those fans in the stands or not, because you want people to watch the games, but if he had come out and been like, Hey, we're probably going to be named the season. I don't think any any of us would have batted an eye

Dave Clarke:

you saying he knew that going in though? You think he knew what he was working with? And he wasn't expecting a winning season?

Joe Malkin:

I do when I don't because he he is the master prepare, right? Like he's always prepared prepared for every situation. But there have been so many situations in the season that he just he hasn't looked prepared for and I think that's partially because what Mike said, and like, I don't think he needs an elite quarterback, but he no longer has that elite quarterback. Right. So yeah, Cam cam is an elite and he never really he was never elite. Okay, he was very good. and carry on.

Dave Clarke:

I didn't have an MVP season.

Joe Malkin:

Well, sure. He had an MVP season. He went to a Super Bowl. Right. So, but I still don't think he's elite. I think he's very good and he was able to work in a Ron Rivera offense. I just don't think and I've said this to you guys before and you've ripped me for it, but I just don't think that that McDaniels has made the offense. Good enough for or bad enough for Kim.

Michael Marcangelo:

You literally can't dumb down this offense more than they take those hazards. And like his play calling

Joe Malkin:

us Thursday was awful.

Michael Marcangelo:

It's because he knows that his quarterback doesn't trust his wide receivers to throw now I mean, he can't the reason why he holds on to the ball too on number one is he can't read a blitz

Joe Malkin:

can't know he's never been able to

Michael Marcangelo:

he needs Hooked on Phonics for NFL blitzes. That's number one. Number two, his double pumps. And he waits until Jacobi Meyers or N'Keal Harry nickeil, Harry or Damair byrd are not going to create separation. And then he just throw it into the ground. So what do you what are you going to do? Damien Harris should be fed the ball 30 times a game, because he can run that is the one bright spot in this season that that I've noticed with the Patriots so far. The other thing on the dollar check on the whole Belichick scheme and what's been happening, what I will say is that guy is usually prepared for everything. He was not prepared for a pandemic number one, number two, and in this instance, when you don't have the time to do a training camp, you don't have a preseason talent on your roster wins out, and he doesn't have any.

Joe Malkin:

You're absolutely right. I mean, he, he has he doesn't have the talent at the specialty positions. He needs he needs to have the talent. Sure. But I think that having that one piece of quarterback can make all the difference. So let's talk about that then because we obviously know that cam can't throw the ball. Right? And he's he's clearly there's something wrong with him. And physically,

Michael Marcangelo:

you believe say that, but then he makes like a 30 yard in cut like, right on the numbers. I mean, he so he can do two throws, right. I think we've established that it's it's the deep ends. He knows he can he can always hit that that receiver. And he's pretty good on a wheel rock. But he can't go over the middle of the field. He just can't

Dave Clarke:

which is how the Patriots offense has been designed for the last two decades. So so but so that's where that's where I see that McDaniels needed to change that. Yeah, but you're asking somebody to implement to the fullest complete philosophical overhaul in in a matter of months with no preseason and I think that's a little bit unfair and also the Patriots fan base and the Patriots media for like a large part. To beat The beat patriots with their own stick, you know, like this is the standard that they created. And now they're being held to the standard without having the same pieces that they had when creating that standard. And I think it would be very helpful for the team if everybody said, okay, we are now officially in our first ever full rebuild and accepted that and it's obviously the case. Now you I if there's anything Bill Belichick isn't good at it's probably communicating I'm not sure how he's like held the marriage down to be quite frank with you, but maybe he hasn't. Oh, did he is he I don't know about his personal life. I don't care. I just watched her. Watch him on the sidelines. But the but the the thing is, is you need to give him time to rebuild this team. He needs a full overhaul when you when you lose a Hall of Fame, arguably greatest of all time quarterback, you're going to need to rebuild your team. They tried it out with cam, you can't expect Josh McDaniels to write an entire new offense and adjust around a new quarterback at the same time without a preseason going. And it's and he's getting beat for with the stick that he made for himself. You know, I mean, it's he's he made the offense that Tom Brady succeeded in. And that was, those are over the middle, you know, 1010 to 15 yard plays hit your spot, when you're told to smart wide receivers that like know exactly what they're supposed to do know what their job is like, you don't really need a ton of flash. So then you then what you do is you don't try to turn a flash. And you don't have a ton of just like raw talent on your team, because that hasn't been what you needed, that those attacking those offensive positions. So then when the system starts to break down, because you don't have the same guy there to run it. You have a situation where Okay, well, we need to do what you're saying Joe, which is go back to the drawing board, but you're also trying to build the plane while you're flying it. You know, because you're also in the middle of a season where you have to try and win some games you're not really going to tank because you just went and got Cam Newton and he looked okay in the first few weeks, but then he just kind of went off a cliff. Especially once like they started to figure out what the Patriots the other teams started getting tape on him on a patriots team and figuring out what they're going to do it got worse and added to that right when you hit December the Patriots usually go into third gear because they can bring teams to Foxborough beat up on them in the cold with like 1000s and 1000s of screaming patriots fans there to like add to what I would argue for years was one of the best homefield advantages and all the football. So when, you know, there's the whole Seattle thing I thought was a little overblown. And then, but I was never there. So I can't really speak to it. And then but I do think there's some teams in the Midwest that do just as well with. I won't name names, but I think it's tough to get the feel. But and yeah, and man and lambos and amazingly difficult place to go. But, um, but you have to cut them slack for those reasons, I think. And it doesn't mean that Bill Belichick is is like not smart. All of a sudden that like you know that he isn't able to do like everything I just listed out to you, which is a lot of shit. He's got to figure a lot of shit out right now. You know, there's a lot of problems on the table, but I'm confident he'll do it because he's proven that he can

Michael Marcangelo:

just think that he doesn't have enough top tier talent to outsmart like what's happening.

Dave Clarke:

I don't know if what you're saying about the GM thing is true though, because he did maintain a team as a GM for like a long time, you know, and eventually a team is going to need to rebuild, it's going to happen. Sure, I

Michael Marcangelo:

wholeheartedly agree with that. But for like even like their best seasons, like before this last run of Super Bowls, like when they didn't make it to the like they just made it to the playoffs. He always had a Brady or or Brady like person on defense. So he always had those two pillars. His pillar this year should have been Stephon Gilmore. And he's not having a great year but Hightower opted out. And again, like you can actually see the correlation between when Julian Edelman left this year or when he was like really banged up to the slow demise of the Patriots, right? Cam Newton was an NFL quarterback for the first four weeks. I mean, he was he was competing with Seattle, they were they were having really good games, he was throwing for 250 300 yards. He's only eclipsed 150 yards once in the last four weeks.

Dave Clarke:

Like I said, tape tape emerged on him. And he started to get figured out because they're doing the same four things every time. And yeah, it's gonna work in Seattle, cuz he hasn't seen it, you know, but they still want so it doesn't really matter that much. And then eventually, okay, so this is what they're gonna do with cam like this kind of weird three back run pass option thing that just stopped working. And then you know, like you said, you realize that the middle of the field, you can leave completely open and just like push safeties to either side to either sideline, bring up a linebacker, like into a cover, too. And then like, anything that comes over the middle, just kind of get batted down or caught or whatever. And that's a pretty easy offense to play against your enemy, but

Michael Marcangelo:

any defense against the Patriots has the ability to say, okay, we're gonna rush seven. We're just gonna put foreign coverage. None of them can create separation, so we can cancel

Unknown:

off for too long I've noticed.

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, just because he doesn't know what a blitz is coming. He has no idea.

Joe Malkin:

Well, he's also having a tough time reading this. I

Dave Clarke:

mean, it's really obvious to seven guys running a

Michael Marcangelo:

Figure it out. Dude, I don't know what to tell you.

Joe Malkin:

You would think when you have five guys and a running back in front of you. So I think we can all agree regardless of no no preseason, no training camp, really no time to implement an offense. You're asking a coach to adjust to a quarterback and the quarterback to adjust to a coach. And as Dave said, you're building the plane as you're flying it, which I don't do that at home. So what do we what are the New England Patriots do a quarterback and where do they go from here? Because Cam Newton is on a one year $1 million deal? Right? Jared? Stidham? Probably not the answer. Brian Hoyer aging quarterback. He's not going to be around forever. He's basically a glorified coach at this point. So there's been a few names that we've talked about that we've floated out there, and that have been floated out there in the media already. So the story came out today, Mike, that two options that could be possible in New England are Matt Stafford and Jimmy Garoppolo.

Michael Marcangelo:

For me, I love I love the idea of Matt Stafford right I because I think that he has all the intangibles that you want from a quarterback. Especially, you know, he can buy time in the pocket. He knows how to read a blitz. Here's a hell of an arm. The thing about him is, is he's always had at least one elite skill player on offense with him. Right? Whether it was Calvin Johnson, whether it was the emergence of gold of golden Tate, and now Marvin Jones and Kelly Gallaudet, like Kenny golladay. like they've just done a pretty good job at producing good skill players. We don't have that here. So I'm more inclined to say like Jimmy, jeez, like, what I what I said in the slide today was you trade Stephon Gilmore to the 40, Niners for Jimmy G, and literally whatever else they want. And you know, you have a guy that's pretty familiar with your system. Bill loves him, Josh loves him. And like, he doesn't need a huge, you know, talented roster around him. He's not a good deep ball thrower. So just just throw the short intermediate routes. And I think with Jimmy G. And let's say next year, all these players come back like Hightower Chung, which, first of all, I think he's useless, but like people like him. I think that's a 10 win team, right? Because this defense, for better or for worse, has held on pretty well this year. they've kept them in a lot of games. So for me, I'm all in on Jimmy G. I do think he does have a weird history of getting injured.

Dave Clarke:

And what by what I really mean it happens every season. Yeah, but

Joe Malkin:

like then but it doesn't matter whenever you're three of them. There's just

Michael Marcangelo:

one season where didn't happen he went to the Super Bowl, that's that but he he puts himself in weird positions to be injured like it's not the coach's fault and in New England that he decided to scramble to the you know, to the right side of the field and land and get and get down to the ground on his non throwing shoulder. Really, there's nothing that you could have done there besides give yourself a little bit sooner. Well, the

Dave Clarke:

only reason you're even positing getting Jimmy j is because you think he might be able to because the 40 Niners would trade him because he's injury prone.

Michael Marcangelo:

Well, because I try because that's not Kyle Shanahan's guy. Kyle Shanahan likes to draft and develop quarterbacks he didn't do that with with Jimmy G. He was given a pretty well developed quarterback that didn't have a lot of pro experience that he probably thought he could mold. But if you really look, they've not built that offense around Jimmy G. Right. That is the same offense pretty much that you would see with anywhere like when you don't notice a difference between Mullins and Jimmy g in terms of the way the offense is run.

Dave Clarke:

You notice it when they lose more games, though. He's still their starting quarterback you're trying to go get you know,

Michael Marcangelo:

yeah, but the overall scheming of the offense that Kyle Shanahan from what i what i can see and you know, you can come at me if I'm wrong, he thinks he can put any any any quarterback back there to be the leader of his offense. Whereas in New England, they built an offense around Tom Brady, they've tried to tell it around cam Newton's not working so they can bring in Jimmy G, who has a pretty good understanding of what it used to be. And you know, hit the ground running.

Joe Malkin:

So Dave, let's let's talk about that with the injury prone where he's been in San Francisco now for four years. He's been injured three of those four years, he's played. Six, he played six games in his first season three games in the second season, he played all 16 plus three in the playoffs in the Super Bowl appearance in his third season, which was last year. This year. He played in six games, and now he's he's done for the season. So and also when he was in New England, he got through one and a half, six quarters before he went down. Now, my argument on the New England injury which Mike explained where he rolled out and was basically crunched into the ground by a Miami defender on his non throwing shoulder. That one I even even you can put it on Jimmy for doing that. It kind of goes into the situation that they have this year. Right unprepared. For the guy that they're putting under center because Brady, now again, they knew I mean, they it's not like they didn't know Brady was going to be suspended, right like they had to know. So there were they were probably preparing in some way shape or form for Jimmy Garoppolo to be the starting quarterback there. But it they were half blindsided by that suspension coming so close to the beginning of the year. So, Dave, when you when you talk about the injuries. One guy I like to bring up in this conversation is Drew Bledsoe Drew Bledsoe was only as good as the offensive line that was built in front of him. That is how I feel about Jimmy Garoppolo. Do you do you think that and because Mike just sent it to about San Francisco that they didn't build the offense around? Jimmy, they built Jimmy around the offense? If they build the offensive line around Jimmy Garoppolo, whether in San Francisco, or New England and keep him upright? Is he a good enough quarterback to lead a team for the next seven years?

Dave Clarke:

I mean, if it's me if I'm running the organization, which I'm not obviously know, can't rely on him, you know, for me, it's just he's unreliable. And I and I don't think I don't think Bill and Josh are willing to put themselves in a position where they gonna gamble their next seven years on Jimmy g type. If you're trying to go all in right now at the quarterback position and doing which I'm not 100% sure they are. But if they are, I think what you do is you you wait and see what's happening with Dak down and down in Dallas, because there's just no guarantee that Dallas is going to pay him that money. Now with that ankle injury. I can very, very much see jerry jones being that guy that goes like Well, I don't know, man, I just saw his ankle explode. He's probably going to try and get 40 million off of Dallas. It's like 30 million, even if they franchise tag him. I think so he's expensive now, looking at how gruesome that injury was. But there's a really good chance because it was like a crazy freak injury. You know, we as we know, it can go badly, you cannot you could potentially not come back from an injury or potentially you could. But he was bound to have like the best season of any quarterback, you know, top top two or three at least, but he was on track to have an amazing season this season before that happened. And I think maybe there's a world if any kind of back and forth starts to happen with that contract, and you can go get him he's a free agent. Also, if you're interested Mitch trubisky, also a free agent this year. So you know if you guys like him?

Michael Marcangelo:

I'd rather I'd rather have Mitch than back.

Dave Clarke:

That doesn't make sense.

Joe Malkin:

No, I'm gonna I'm gonna agree with Mike on that one. And here's why. You talk about injury prone. You talk about a guy having an injury to his ankle.

Dave Clarke:

I mean, that's not injury prone. No, it's not, you know,

Joe Malkin:

let me rephrase. You talk about injury prone with Jimmy, right. But we know that Jimmy can succeed. Because he has when he's played a full season, he has succeeded at least gotten to that spot where he had an opportunity to, to clinch a Super Bowl, Super Bowl victory with Dak Dak was on the way, but we'll never know. And now he may come back and never be the same quarterback. Now you bring Mitch trubisky into the conversation. And honestly, I don't think he's as bad as people think he is. Now you

Dave Clarke:

definitely don't want him in England. Trust me. He's gonna be able to fix

Joe Malkin:

now You sound like Bobby now You sound like Bobby and he's not even here to defend yourself. Trust me. You don't want them? Well, it's like how do you how do you know though? How do

Unknown:

you know I watched him more than you. Like I should know.

Joe Malkin:

Alright, so here's another guy that kind of reminds me of Mitch trubisky and I'll go to Dave with this one. Carson Wentz has basically been put on the block today. ESPN is reporting that Philadelphia is trying to move on from Carson Wentz. After Jalen hertz had the week that he did. One of the teams on the list of teams that could go out and get Carson Wentz is the New England Patriots, along with the 40 Niners the Broncos and the Colts. Interesting that the niners and the Patriots would both be listed in those four teams. Because that's kind of exactly what we're talking about. Dave, if you're one of those four teams, do you take Carson Wentz or Mitch trubisky?

Dave Clarke:

Yeah, um, I would take Carson Wentz because i've you know, I actually know he's really bad. He sucks. I would not take Carson Wentz. The The thing is, is that I think he's gonna end up in Indianapolis because what's his knuckles coaches there and he likes him. He draft right who is Frank Reich? He coaches there so he's probably and Philip Rivers is only on one year. I think so he'll need to fill that spot. I think it's dead. He's destined to go to Indianapolis. If you're the Patriots. No, I would not take him through the Patriots because you've already had a bad quarterback play there. I think um, I've actually started to like, I never want to become a Mitch trubisky truth or you know, like as a Bears fan because I spent years and years and years defending Jay Cutler and I didn't have a podcast then but it was fucking exhausting. And it I was like, I'm sorry. There's going to be skeptical about this guy. I'm gonna be skeptical about it. I've tried to get myself amped up to sports Rybicki, but then he does he's like a bad boyfriend. You know, he went and did that on Sunday he went and just completely blew out the the Houston Texans and deshaun Watson like, is having having a pretty good season statistically and this and that, you know, this defense shut them down. So it's like, oh, are they gonna be good? Like, what's, what's going to happen then? No, don't get your hopes up. You know, it's the same thing that happens to you guys. trubisky flatters to deceive. That's that's what he likes to do, which is I would argue worse than just being straight out bad, you know, which is what Carson Wentz has the politeness to do. So if you're taking either of them, Carson Wentz gonna cost you a lot more. So I have to I have to say no to Carson Wentz. Like, like across the board if you're going to put them both on the block, but the Eagles are taking a bath on him, regardless of what happens like the fact that they've officially given up on him like they're gonna have to pay. Because I think there's some weird clause where they have to trade them before a certain date and then the team that gets him only has to pay like 2021 and 2022 I could be wrong with that. But the so it's not as bad for the team that gets him I know this much. It's not as bad for the team that gets him as it's going to be for the Eagles.

Craig D'Alessandro:

I think they trade them the Eagles got like a $60 million cat pet or something.

Dave Clarke:

They get let it's it's better for the Eagles to train them, but it's not much better. I don't know. I don't think so. But it's but it's not much better to train them. If he stays on the bench. It's really bad for them. Yeah, if but they still take a hit if they train them and they're the team that gets them I know doesn't inherit such a bad as better contract as if he sits on the bench with eagles. So the Patriots, yeah, maybe the Patriots. I don't know man. I don't think I can't talk myself into cut now. It's just wouldn't work. Philip Rivers you guys said you liked Philip Rivers. You know, like he's on that he's available again next season. So I would go for him maybe over a whence you don't want that attention.

Joe Malkin:

So Mike, let me phrase it this way to you though. And you go into to your point that you were going to make is either way, the New England Patriots are going to have to pay a quarterback something that they have not done for a very long time. In fact, you could argue that the last starting quarterback that they actually paid was Drew Bledsoe.

Michael Marcangelo:

No, no, that's, I mean, to have Brady's contracts, he was cash rich. Now the terms didn't look great for like the years but they paid him a lot of money as a signing bonus. So they did they do pay quarterbacks. But one thing that I'll say, Mitchell trubisky, you could you could literally just point to the fact that his coaches have sucked, which is why he has not developed, right? I would rather take a flyer on a guy who's a terrible coaching, and bring them over here to where you know that Josh and Bill can coach them up and see what happens as opposed to guy like Carson Wentz who looks really good on paper. Like if you just look at his stats, you know, he has 113 touchdowns, 50 interceptions, 16,000 yards passing, I mean a completion percentage of 62%. It's not bad. It's really not bad. The problem with him is, is he doesn't look like he wants to run the plays that are given to him in Philadelphia. That's just that's just what I'm seeing. He doesn't want to run those plays. So he tries to do whatever he whatever he wants to do in the pocket. And he's just not that good. But he's not that talented enough to just call on the face. brett farr when you say that if he was an assistant, and that he can that he could subscribe to that you would want him as your corner that you believe that this system should be the one that he should, that he should subscribe to, because it did win a Super Bowl. Not not too long ago.

Unknown:

I mean, it wasn't him that did it.

Michael Marcangelo:

At 10 and one though, I mean, they were they were on fire that year when he went down my dream. It wasn't listed on our on our rundown. Okay, I wish Billy O'Brien was still in Houston. Because I think Bill could fleece him for deshaun Watson. And that is the dream. The city of Houston the city of Houston would burn to the ground.

Joe Malkin:

It doesn't mean that that's that's no yeah, that was dumb. He traded Hopkins and he's he was lucky to have his job as long as he did if he traded deshaun Watson who is literally the franchise

Unknown:

Yeah, he's having a good year in a bad breath

Michael Marcangelo:

but like that's that's my dream is to is to hit for him to be New England.

Dave Clarke:

Somehow girl can dream but I don't see.

Joe Malkin:

Yeah, I would love to tell you my dream too. But before we move so basically to finish up the conversation about the New England Patriots in the quarterback, which I think we've dragged on a little too far now is we're only going ending week 14 tonight. The last thing I will say on the New England Patriots is that if the Cleveland Browns can beat the Baltimore Ravens tonight, playoff hopes for the New England Patriots are still alive.

Michael Marcangelo:

Okay, can I just say one more thing, Joe? Okay, one more thing about the quarterback conversation. I'm not I'm not convinced that Stephens not the guy next year. The reason why I say no, no Don't want not

Joe Malkin:

because we want them but

Michael Marcangelo:

true. But why are they putting him in at quarterback when they're up? 45 to nothing? Like why are they letting him throw? Why are they bringing him into up top? 45

Unknown:

to nothing?

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, yeah against against la the Chargers he played a couple snaps in that one and they keep bringing them in to throw the to try to run the offense. I think you dope patriot fans like don't be surprised if Jared Stidham is the starting quarterback for our team next year. I

Dave Clarke:

thought he's gonna be the starting quarterback this year, and I thought it was gonna go

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, but you got to take a flyer on ON CAM you have to you have

Unknown:

to fly for sure. For sure. It wasn't about a million bucks. Yeah.

Joe Malkin:

Yeah, exactly. So as we finish our conversation about the New England Patriots, what we're going to do now is take a quick break and we're going to hear from our wonderful ep Craig D'Alessandro on our sponsor boxercraft so Craig take it away

Craig D'Alessandro:

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Joe Malkin:

haven't even started

Craig D'Alessandro:

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Joe Malkin:

thanks Craig. That was great. Thank you for reminding me that I haven't started my Christmas shopping

Craig D'Alessandro:

yet. It's literally like two weeks away from Christmas So yeah, I get that. I gotta get that turbo man doll.

Dave Clarke:

I don't have kids but I do order the box Oh crafts just for the glue that comes in it because they want something new in my local hardware store anymore for reasons I can't quite get into. So I also endorse box Oh crafts.

Joe Malkin:

Did you enter promo code MTP at checkout? I

Dave Clarke:

get my discount. Yeah, I mean yeah, there you go through as much glue as I do. You're gonna need some you're gonna need some 15% sauce here and there. Okay, let me tell you.

Joe Malkin:

Well, welcome back to missing the point. Just to reset I'm Joe Malkin joined by Mike Mark Angelo and the blue Hufford. Dave Clark out there in LA and Craig D'Alessandro, and thank you for making it this far with us tonight. Now that we've ended our patriots talk, we're gonna stick in the AFC East because we have another conversation I have, which we mentioned at the top of the show, which was at the New England Patriots will not be AFC East champions this year. And the Buffalo Bills are one game away from winning the AFC East title for the first time since 1995. And basically what the bills need are the Patriots to beat the dolphins and if the Patriots beat the dolphins, regardless of what the bills do, they win the AFC. So the bills with Jared Allen as their quarterback, sorry Josh Allen, as a quarterback Jared Allen is the old defensive lineman from the Minnesota Vikings favorites. But they have Josh Allen at quarterback. And we've we're gonna play a fun little game here, where we talk about what was going on in the world. The last time the Buffalo Bills won the AFC title. I can tell you that I was seven years old in the second grade, probably sniffing glue. But Mike, what else was going on in 1995?

Michael Marcangelo:

Well, thanks, Joe. Back in 1995, the last time that the Buffalo Bills won the AFC East. Let's see the average cost of a new house was $113,000. That's depressing. Gas was $1.09 per gallon. Michael Jordan returns to the NBA after his first retirement. I don't know if you guys know this one. oj turns out he was found innocent in 1995 as well. He

Dave Clarke:

was found not guilty. I think we should be clear about that. Yeah, I think I don't think innocence was up for

Michael Marcangelo:

you probably right. post malone was born.

Unknown:

Who was born?

Michael Marcangelo:

post malone was born. Oh, so

Dave Clarke:

that was the day we went from pre Malone to post malone. That's great.

Michael Marcangelo:

That's right. That's right. Patrick mahomes I don't know if you guys know him. He was also born in 1995. Selena was killed by her manager. And there was another thing that happened in in 1985 a couple a couple of movies right? What would you say if I would? Okay, what was the best movie of next 95

Dave Clarke:

What year did Liar Liar come out?

Joe Malkin:

1997.

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah. Which was awesome. toy store

Dave Clarke:

close toy store.

Craig D'Alessandro:

I want to I want to say seven came out. 995

Dave Clarke:

seven. What were you doing watching seven in 1995. Weird childhood explains quite a bit.

Michael Marcangelo:

Batman Forever. Batman was his highest grossing movie of 1995 with $340 million. By the way, that is the worst Batman movie I've ever seen.

Joe Malkin:

Michael Keaton one. No, it

Michael Marcangelo:

was the Jim Carrey. Tommy Lee Jones. Oh Kellner one. Yeah,

Joe Malkin:

that's right. I

Michael Marcangelo:

think I think Nicole Kidman was in that one too. I was Yeah,

Joe Malkin:

she was the best part of it.

Dave Clarke:

Is that Huma Thurman? Not Emma Thurman yet?

Michael Marcangelo:

Not that was that was the next one with like Mr. Freeze.

Dave Clarke:

The worst one. That's the worst one that's worse.

Joe Malkin:

There's been some really bad mF revenues. I know that that's what we're doing. But

Michael Marcangelo:

the best album of the year the last half of the the Buffalo Bills may or one the AFC East was cracked rear view by Hootie and the blowfish personal favorite, selling 7 million copies in 1995.

Dave Clarke:

When did jack a little pill come out?

Michael Marcangelo:

That's it for

Dave Clarke:

okay, because if you can't say that that was better, because Jagga little pills, the Pet Sounds more just sold more. I'm just saying it was a different year. So that's fine. It's a different year.

Michael Marcangelo:

I'm just reading I'm just reading copy to you. I'm not saying anything. I'm just letting I'm

Dave Clarke:

just taking this opportunity to get and get fired up about the fact that I truly in my heart of hearts believe the Jagged Little pose the pet signs in the 1990s. Last more set, not appreciated enough in our current time. And I know that I'm not wrong, but

Michael Marcangelo:

yeah, she I mean, she kind of flamed out after that one record, though.

Dave Clarke:

Yeah, that's one more amazing piece of music that neither of us have ever done. Okay. And a lot of lives. So one is better than none.

Joe Malkin:

I have this conversation with a lot of people about Sarah Fuller, the kicker for Vanderbilt and how she made two extra points this weekend and people look oh, it's not a big deal. I'm like, Well, how many extra points have you made in the sec? Yeah, good

Unknown:

point.

Michael Marcangelo:

Good girl. A couple solid pieces of news of noteworthy news here is Dean Martin died in 1995. Mickey Mantle also died in 1995. And I think the worst piece is Windows 95 was released. And I think that was just the worst operating system I've ever ever got.

Dave Clarke:

I think you said the word I thought you're gonna say the worst piece was the mantle piece.

Michael Marcangelo:

Oh, so it's it's it's been a while since the bills have won the world has absolutely changed. Let me tell you something. If gas was $1 nine right now, we'd all be in a much better place.

Dave Clarke:

I guess what you're saying is in 1995. There wasn't a dystopian nightmare. And it now is

Unknown:

not yet those

Dave Clarke:

that's the biggest difference I've noted from your list.

Joe Malkin:

Yep. Yeah. Clinton was was the I almost said Bill Clinton was quarterback but Bill Clinton was president.

Craig D'Alessandro:

He was kind of the quarterback

Michael Marcangelo:

in a way he was president. And I think, you know, for us what you've seen like the Patriots then kind of the US where were we? Well, I was seven. I was watching Drew Bledsoe not throw it to Terry Glen yet because he wasn't there. I think the Patriots did. I think they made the wildcard that year. They did not make a run into the into the postseason deeper into the next year. So much has changed. Jim Kelly's gone I mean, I feel like Rick Pitino saying like you know Jim Kelly is not walking through that door. But the bills right now. And Josh Allen, I'm not a Josh Allen guy. I don't know about either of you. I was still taking Mitchell trubisky over Josh Allen in the New England Patriots. Quarterback number one.

Joe Malkin:

I would take I would take Mitch trubisky as the New England quarterback over Josh Allen but Josh Allen will still be the better quarterback in the the best quarterback in the AFC East. If Mitch trubisky was on the New England Patriots.

Dave Clarke:

Why? Why don't you guys like how do you hate Josh Allen as much as it'd be? Are you just you have your New England goggles on and he's playing well? No, it lets us know what's going on. Oh, he's like,

Joe Malkin:

Shaolin is like it's key. Josh Allen is like the rec Vaughn of the NFL, right? Major League reference? No, because he's not Jay Cutler, because Jay Cutler wasn't a good quarterback. Josh Allen is Josh Allen is a good quarterback who doesn't know where the ball is going when he throws it and he makes stupid decisions when he throws the ball downfield.

Michael Marcangelo:

That sounds like Jay Cutler

Joe Malkin:

but Jay Cutler made a lot of decisions pre snap,

Dave Clarke:

you know, actually reminds me of is Donovan McNabb and bear with me on this McNab had the exact same trait as Alan and it's going to be exactly how it works out for Alan which is if he rolls out to the right he throws it across his body across the fields of the left which is as all season Madden players know as a guaranteed interception is a freak athlete for especially and I noticed from watching him last night against the Steelers he's bigger than I like I like whenever I see him I'm always like oh he's bigger

Joe Malkin:

than built like a linebacker. He's a

Dave Clarke:

big boy um and I always get like shocked by that when I see him but he does that and and that's just gonna go badly for you a lot of times in a row eventually you know when you when you roll out and just like heave it up in the air and the commentators like and the crazy thing is he's thrown out across his body and then it's like yeah, okay worked at that time. But this is like

Joe Malkin:

there's a lot of bad commentators doing NFL games and the Monday night crew is one of the Crews, but there's a lot of bad commentator so I stopped listen to a lot of them. Love Tony Romo though. Steve Levy, is it Redick? That's on that. And Bobby, or Brian race

Dave Clarke:

the best one, though, because the cons were a gold standard for me.

Joe Malkin:

Yeah, absolutely. You know, and I mean, bring back Mike to Rico. I love Mike tirico. He was just phenomenal.

Michael Marcangelo:

Like, hold on for me. Like, why do you guys like Josh Allen like, Okay.

Dave Clarke:

I don't like him. I mean, I like my fantasy team. His fantasy numbers are crazy. Good.

Joe Malkin:

And you rip them for drafting jobs. That's why. Yeah, so that's why he likes him. So

Dave Clarke:

you put me in the camp. You put me in the Josh Allen camp really.

Joe Malkin:

I like him. Because he he continues to get better. And I mean, he's he's winning football games and not by himself. I mean, they've obviously put a lot of pieces around him and that defense is pretty good. But to have Singletary in the backfield and Diggs to like he just makes things happen for you. And he's loving me in there because he hated it and Minnesota at the end. I mean, he loves being in Buffalo because that's exactly what he does is he throws him the ball. But the difference between McDermott in a lot of other coaches in the NFL, is that, you know, use the Browns as an example where OBJ leaves and that team gets or star isn't playing and that team gets better because he just cried and bitch and moan until they forced them the football was to five digs, gets to Buffalo, kind of quiet. They kind of tailor the offense between Allen and Diggs, and they make it work so nobody's getting upset. He's also not forcing the football. So I am in works in Buffalo and I hate to say it, but the coaching has been so much better than than what it was prior to McDermott get into town. And Mike, we're gonna switch gears here real quick, but it is interesting. It is interesting that you mentioned Hootie and the blowfish. Because, you know, hoody, big dolphins fan is very off rocker. Yep. And and who do the bills need to lose this weekend for them to win the division, and hoody said it best. His girlfriend left when the dolphins made him cry. And he only wanted to be with you. So we're moving on. So as we move on from the Buffalo Bills, talk the AFC East and the Patriots, we're gonna move into the rest of the NFL and I have a few questions for you guys that I really want to get out here. And there's really one that's just been it's really been digging at me since they won yesterday. And, Mike, we have you have some explaining to do about your six and 10 Packers pick.

Michael Marcangelo:

It started here, right? Yeah, we're

Joe Malkin:

gonna start here, because I just we've been in the MC season 10. So sure did. So in the preseason. We have a game a prediction game going where myself rayshawn and Craig got to predict the AFC standings and Mike, Dave and Bobby got to predict the NSC standings. And now I'm starting to understand why Bobby tried to jump ship, because Mike predicted that the Detroit Lions I'll let you say your piece in just a moment where the Detroit Lions were gonna win the NFC north and that Aaron Rodgers was done is what Mike said in the preseason. And that the Packers were going to finish six and 10 in fourth place in the basement of the NFC north. And guess what they did, Mike, Mike, what did they do yesterday?

Michael Marcangelo:

I think that they clinch the NFC North yesterday.

Joe Malkin:

They clinch the NFC north. So what do you have to say for yourself?

Michael Marcangelo:

Okay, well, let's let's let's not beat a dead horse. I said three weeks into it. I was wrong about him. He just, he just has like he has a different look in his eye this year. I think it's the first year you know, since he's been in the league since he's been the starting quarterback that he said that they've drafted someone to challenge him right here. This is a bit of like the Brady, Jimmy g thing, but I'm gonna stick with Aaron Rodgers. Here's what I know. This year. He's completely past that a 70% clip. He's on fire. Here's what I know about Aaron Rodgers man is he's completing his passes it like a 70% clip. He already almost has 400 or 4000 passing yards, 39 touchdowns for pics. I mean, he's just literally dropping it on my forehead at this point for just just because I made an outlandish pick for content purposes. What I will say is, I thought the NFC North was going to be a tougher division for the winner to win. I thought it was going to be a nine seven type of division to win the Green Berets running away with it. I think if Aaron Rodgers continues on this level, he just probably added another four or five years to his career. But yes, I was wrong. It was a bad pick. No, I wanted to be a weatherman growing up there only right 25% of the time and they don't get called in their shit at all. But here all year long. I've been called on it. So yes, I was wrong. I hope you're happy.

Dave Clarke:

I was on your team I endorsed you co signed it. I co signed it because I mean to be fair, I was just on board with the idea that Aaron Rodgers might have a shitty season. Yeah, I got excited when he said that because I didn't think anyone was gonna think that and then I was immediately accepting of the news because it's never happened before. I was like, great, Aaron Rodgers, you're gonna have a shitty season. Let's do it. I'm flunking on board. I'm on the bandwagon. But yeah, I mean, he's had a good year. Let's like let's just relax. Okay, he's still won one Super Bowl. Like, I'm still pretty sure he's going to flame out in the playoffs. I understand is like numbers have been good, but I feel like the way the the guy is he the year he won the Super Bowl, he almost let Jay Cutler beat him in the NFC Championship game. He was like this close to screwing that up too. So I don't know if he's a winner like that. I think he'll turn around and be like, yep, see, see what I did. See my regular season. Check that out should have doubted me, Mike. And then he'll just you know, we'll just move on and and i don't think he's gonna do anything. I also think that the whole like, Oh, they actually sign a quarterback and like that kind of fired up. Like that's a little bit of a narrative, I think manufactured by people like us who follow sports and talking about sports. You know, on a professional level. I think that his season isn't that much better than his previous years.

Michael Marcangelo:

Oh,

Dave Clarke:

yeah. But but hear me out like going into the season the last season that Tom Brady won a Super Bowl. The narrative was is Aaron Rodgers really the goat though even though you'd only want one? Because of its statistical regular season years was always the argument. So he always does good in the regular season. I'm not entirely sure that means anything. I think he gets a lot less shit for only doing good in the regular season and not winning a Super Bowl than Peyton Manning did. Peyton Manning used to get beat with that stick a hell of a lot more than Aaron Rodgers does. Even after he won his first and she hasn't six. So you know, he's the Golden Boy, whatever. Fucking Aaron Rodgers he'll fall off a cliff eventually. I think it was I stand by your prediction. Mike. I stand by it.

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, I mean, so do I it didn't age? Well, I get it. But I mean, his year this year, he's already thrown 13 more TV passes this year than he did last year. I mean, and I think like, I think we can all say if our employer hired someone that was a direct competitor to us, we would have our game at work to make sure that we had that we still had our job. I mean, as long as you're not in a union, if you are then you're fine. You don't really have to try. But at the NFL like they do, right, because they can they can just move on for the lesser, you know, the the quarterback that cost them, you know, lesser amount, but his season this year, is historic in the fact that he's thrown 39 touchdowns to four picks. And he's been in the league for what, 15 years now. I think he is a bit of a choke artist. I think he is a bit of a you love the show a paper champion? Because the guy doesn't really want anything he didn't wants. How many Super Bowls has he been to? Is it just the one?

Dave Clarke:

Yeah, he's never losses. One thing.

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, that's it. He's been the one.

Unknown:

That's one way to look at it. I guess.

Michael Marcangelo:

He's undefeated in circles. I guess that's true, but he's only been there once. I mean, if he gets to four only wins to like painted, that's fine. That's fine. Unless you get I'd rather you give your team a chance to get to the Super Bowl. And when

Dave Clarke:

especially if you're as good as everyone says you are you know what I mean? Like the just the amount of Aaron Rodgers fellating that goes on every offseason about how amazing he is. I like and then it's and then he only ones one but nobody seems to give him any shit for it. You know what I mean? He still just gets to walk around do fucking statefarm commercials, just completely free of any criticism. So like, you know, whatever, Aaron Rodgers.

Michael Marcangelo:

But I think it's because he historically he I mean, he's only had like their offensive scheme has never been like, great, right? It's like you have devonta Adams. Before that he had Jordy Nelson, they just run straight down the field. Aaron Rodgers can just flick his wrist into the ball 40 yards. That's pretty much it if you can,

Joe Malkin:

something we wish a quarterback here would do more of and we loved it when Randy moss was here. And that's all Tom did.

Michael Marcangelo:

didn't win a Super Bowl though. Same thing. I mean, I mean, right. Like you didn't win the Sujoy with Randy moss. That's not a winning formula. I think it's easy. Like if you have a really good secondary, you can shut down Aaron Rodgers and I think in the in the postseason, that's what happens that the teams that they play are just that much better. And he can't do what he does in the regular season. Listen, I think he'll go down as a top 10 all time quarterback. He hasn't cracked my top five meaning. And I mean, now if he goes on a run these next four years and wins two Super Bowls, then we're talking. But until that happened,

Dave Clarke:

it's a little late and even though he's having a great time statistical year, I still seems a little late in the party. Aaron Rodgers wants to get to be doing that. And I mean, I hate to say this about my own division, but like it's not as if the NFC north is stacked with competition. But neither was neither was the AFC East when the Patriots sure but then you can do right now to the entire NFC. I think that He has a pretty easy walk to the Super Bowl this year. You know, I think that Yeah, especially with an injured Drew Brees Now, I know he's gonna be back by Christmas time but what's it gonna look like? Does he is he gonna need to get like bed bed back in? Obviously the saints lost after winning like eight straight with Drew healthy so it's like, or nine straight whatever it was, you know, I don't know, I feel like this is his best chance to get to a Super Bowl If not, when it appeared that whoever comes out of the IOC is gonna win this year. So it doesn't really make a difference. But I think you know, I think he's got a pretty he's had a few years where he's had a pretty easy path and the NFC like get there and he just like hasn't done it. I'm not saying every year but the AFC is as far as I can remember because the Patriots were always there the Steelers, now the Chiefs have emerged, you know, these these teams are just scared like, you know what I mean? Like it's just like they're just so much scarier on that side. And like you know, you always end up having to go through the Ravens are someone and they're always just like meaty and awful to play. But like Aaron Rodgers went over here to dominate the NFC the entire time and what's he got to show for it? Once you're well, that's not the standard anymore

Michael Marcangelo:

against against your fiance's Pittsburgh Steelers. And I would say like, for me, you know, even when even when that team went 15 to one he was 14 one as it started that year they lost in their first game in the postseason because people aren't afraid of him in January, because he did because he just doesn't have you know, to quote Bobby even though he has a Lombardi Trophy and Superbowl ring he does not have championship DNA right he and he relies too much on on this is this this is a weird thing to say. I don't think he's coachable. If that makes sense I don't think you build I don't think you can really scheme Aaron Rodgers right he's just a guy that can just drop back and throw the ball

Dave Clarke:

totally agree with you and flexible in the in the post season two and there's not flexible you can get them into into a rhythm of like, screwing himself up. Like I said he tried to he tried his best to screw up the one Super Bowl he did actually win it. He didn't silence any doubters winning that Tsuboi like wasn't the most convincing Superbowl win I've ever seen. You know what I mean? It wasn't there wasn't like an Eli Manning turning it on to the postseason thing or like Joe Flacco like how is he this postseason quarterback? There was no like narrative there to support that there's no like here comes Tom Brady in January like Watch out everybody or, or any of those kind of things. It was just sort of like I guess Aaron Rodgers was like the best guy that year. Okay, moving on. You know, I mean, it wasn't like doing nothing crazy happen. So

Michael Marcangelo:

no, and I think like the reason why like that Super Bowl stands out to me is because it was so soon after Brett that they moved on from Brett Farve, right. Like if that if that had happened in another 10 years, it would have been like, yeah, it took you long enough, but it happens so quickly. You guys were all like, you know what? Maybe this maybe he is the guy maybe he will do more than Brett Farve did brett farr brought them to what two Super Bowls one one. Aaron Rodgers only brought him to one now Yes, he's want to know, but you need to get to the dance a little bit more often in my opinion.

Joe Malkin:

So that's part of the conversation that I would bring up about Aaron Rodgers is that while he he is almost a Peyton Manning kind of quarterback right like he has Manning Manning he

Dave Clarke:

No no, Manny like Manny and yeah, you're

Joe Malkin:

going to pay Romanian quarterback? Yeah. So that's trademarked by Joe Malkin. You can make out check.

Dave Clarke:

Point trade route. Trademark, I'm sorry. We have to I'm good with all your ideas. That's that's the

Joe Malkin:

agreements the way it goes when you're part of a corporation. Hey, Mike, isn't it kind of ironic how you mentioned you know, if you're part of a if you're part of a union, you're all right. But all NFL players are part of the Union. So that's that's a little I

Michael Marcangelo:

did say. But I I did correct myself and said except the NFL. Because they will cut ties with the most expensive player to keep the cheaper player

Dave Clarke:

not to get into a debate about if unions work or not. But unions can can still cover jobs that are by their very nature, meritocracies. And then the all union drawbacks that people level at unions then recede because you still have to be the best at your job. And you can write posts. So like in the film business, for instance, everybody's in a union, but all jobs are freelance. So if you suck, you still just don't get hired on to the next job. And there's no right ramifications there. So you know, there can still be married, they can still be meritocracies not to drag us down the road of, you know, pinkertons versus unions and like union politics, but because they're a sports podcast, but I like to say that when it comes up, it's all I'm saying.

Joe Malkin:

Welcome to union jack with Dave Clark.

Dave Clarke:

Never there never, never never. That would never happen in a million years.

Joe Malkin:

So So back to the conversation at hand the the NFL and the NFC and we're gonna stay on that side because Dave, I agree with you that Aaron Rodgers could walk right into the Super Bowl this year, but I would say that his that you don't underplay the Rams. And I'm not just saying that because of how the Patriots play. laid against them last week. I really do think that defense is a top five defense in the NFL. And I think that secondary is very good. And I think that team could be the one that knocks Aaron Rodgers out and makes him into exactly what you guys just said. Now, on the other side of it, you mentioned the New Orleans Saints and how they won nine in a row. They want a lot of those games in the back end with taysom Hill three games with taysom Hill. So they went a lot with taysom Hill who came in and is looking like a quarterback and does really look like he can be the next guy after Drew Brees is gone. However, he and the saints lost to the Philadelphia Eagles yesterday they were down 17 and nothing at one point in that game. Jalen hertz looked like a good NFL quarterback. He did. He's definitely better than Carson Wentz. And I think we can all agree on that after seeing him in five quarters of action. But the question I have for you guys, is that more about the saints? Is it just a fluke loss for them? And you mentioned Drew Brees coming back? He could he could be back next weekend, maybe week? 16 they haven't really come up with that. I think it's all gonna depend on on what happens in the NFC playoff race because right now they've claimed they've clinched the NFC South have the New Orleans Saints, have they not?

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, I mean, they own the tiebreaker. And they are they only have three losses. I mean, so they can only get what, uh, I guess if Tampa Bay wins out,

Joe Malkin:

in the sense would have to lose Yeah. So they can still lose the division to the Tum Tampa Bay Buccaneers as Bobby likes to say, they don't

Dave Clarke:

know and know they don't have like, beat me in the playoffs. Like a big like beat me in the playoffs sign t shirt. You know, it's like I just feel like they don't like you can't have a cork quarterback committee. I know. It's not like a quarterback committee in the truest sense, because they're not like going back before between healthy starters. But it's you can't really have insecurity at the quarterback position, going into a legitimate playoff run. And if this is a skid, if they lose more than just this one game, that's the kiss of death for any playoff bound team. When you can't get momentum when you lose momentum going in, like the Steelers, you know, like that's their losses are coming at the worst possible time because their momentum now is starting to skate a little bit as opposed to build, you know, the two times the Giants won the Super Bowl like they sorry, bring that up. But

Michael Marcangelo:

that's twice dude like this, like the bobby cowboys guy, they

Dave Clarke:

gained momentum as they as they went into the playoffs and that momentum carried them through to their wins, you know, so they were getting going in the right direction. And I think that I think the saints have all the hallmarks and one of those teams that are going in the wrong direction.

Michael Marcangelo:

And also like, Is anyone here afraid of the saints in the playoffs? No. And that's what I mean. But that's the exact same as the Green Bay Packers like when you really think about it a percent like, like they had this great coach. Right and one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time, and he's been to what was it is still just the one Super Bowl. No, is who do they lose to? Because I know he beat the Colts? I don't know. I

Dave Clarke:

think Drew Brees has to Sewall when

Joe Malkin:

he does, he only has one. He only has

Michael Marcangelo:

one. Yeah.

Dave Clarke:

And again, Aaron Rodgers.

Joe Malkin:

So here's the conversation, right, because we talked about, we talked about Aaron Rodgers as the quarterback, right? We don't necessarily talk about the team. I think Matt lafleur is doing a great job up there in Green Bay with that team with what he has at hand. Currently. We talk about Aaron Rodgers and how he is a good regular season quarterback. That's what I meant by saying he was Peyton Manning is that he he succeeds in the first 16 games. And then he gets to the playoffs. And he only gets to a Super Bowl once and and wins it. Sure. But what else has he done? So then Dave says, you know, no, secondary is gonna unseat him in the NFC. It's an easy path. I disagree with the Rams. But then you say we switch gears and talk about the saints. And you say, well, you really afraid of the saints. And then you say, well, they're kind of just the packers and I start thinking about it, too. I'm like, well, the Rams don't really scare me in that situation, either.

Dave Clarke:

Yeah, I mean, like I said, Whoever comes out of the FCS will change

Michael Marcangelo:

it, at least with the Rams or that's a young head coach, young quarterback that have made a deep playoff run gone to school. Right. So Drew Brees hasn't been to one and, what, 12 years, 10 years that you attend. So and they've all had the exact same, they mean that he's had as much consistency as you could possibly have in the NFL over the last 12 years, or 15 years even. And he just can't he I mean, he got there once and I would say like he wasn't even like the maybe I'm wrong. You can go back in fact check this, but Peyton Manning didn't do a pick six in that game. Did they return to a kick return for a touchdown to like was Drew Brees the star of that game?

Dave Clarke:

No. I mean, no, I think I think they would they had a really good special teams that year, I think Yeah, about that. But I think he might have been the single MVP, I think I think probably was the star of the game. But I do remember that but I do take your point. I remember the flashy special teams plays And like a lot of you know, like a lot of big things that happened in that saints run didn't involve Drew Brees, but I'm sure if we look at the numbers, which I don't have them in front of me, but I'm sure to be like, Oh, yeah, now Drew Brees had an amazing statistical year, because he always has an amazing it's

Michael Marcangelo:

always right. I mean, those are 5000 yards like every year.

Dave Clarke:

Yeah. And he's like, what four foot 10 like he's so

Unknown:

roughly

Joe Malkin:

a little bit taller than Doug Flutie. So I think he's 411

Dave Clarke:

you know, and I see if I was the Chargers I'd still regret the decision I made you know, choosing Philip Rivers over him I think they you know what I mean like because that was the narrative early very, very early Drew Brees, Philip Rivers careers, and I think this charger is still fucked up even though he only went and got one with the saints like the Chargers obviously just by the numbers fucked up so

Michael Marcangelo:

I mean, at least he got to one right.

Dave Clarke:

Yeah, I mean, I'm completely contradict myself now because I'm like Drew Brees won a Super Bowl. Okay, and then Mike Rogers thing it's like well, he only got one fuck If so, like, I don't know. I'm obviously biased

Joe Malkin:

against Aaron Rodgers because he's a packer. Just a fact. Jackie, on that one. As you mentioned, we should do that. We will do that Drew Brees was the MVP of that sort of race against the Colts. Thanks for so then. Also, you You were right about the pick six. Okay, but it was it was Tracy Porter on with three minutes and 12 seconds left in the game. So they were already up 24 to 17. Now that drive could have changed, right. So JC Porter's interception for a touchdown. Did ice the game for the New Orleans Saints and Drew Brees went 32 and 39 for 288 and two touchdowns with a quarterback rating of 114 points.

Dave Clarke:

Those are amazing Super Bowl numbers.

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah. And he also he earned his stripes that postseason. And when they beat the Vikings and Bret Hart and the NFC Championship Joe

Dave Clarke:

while we're talking about it, can we see can we actually just compare Aaron Rodgers in Super Bowl numbers to Drew Brees a Super Bowl numbers because I feel like my gut is telling me that Aaron Rodgers has a Super Bowl was not anything to write home about but he

Michael Marcangelo:

was well he was Super Bowl MVP. Remember, he

Dave Clarke:

was a Super Bowl MVP. I mean, I felt Oh yeah, that's why you remember that the Yeah, it

Joe Malkin:

was actually the next year. Yep.

Dave Clarke:

Oh, that was the next year. They were back to back those two guys.

Craig D'Alessandro:

Yeah, back to

Joe Malkin:

back to Packers. 131 25 over the Pittsburgh Steelers, as Mike mentioned. And the Super Bowl MVP in that game was Aaron Rodgers. And Aaron Rodgers in that game was 24 of 39 for 304 and three touchdowns with a 111 point five quarterback rating so

Dave Clarke:

so Drew Brees had better, right. He

Joe Malkin:

had more completions. Same amount of passes he had left though is that

Dave Clarke:

true Bri completion percentage is so tight, you know,

Michael Marcangelo:

some would argue that Aaron Rodgers was responsible for 21 points of his team

Unknown:

that year.

Michael Marcangelo:

The Steelers Annapolis Oh, sorry. Yeah,

Dave Clarke:

yes, yeah. Wow. With weight with who was the quarterback? Okay. He BP Manning and

Michael Marcangelo:

what do you ask? Okay. Oh, you're asking.

Dave Clarke:

Yeah, he be painting a suitable painting and it's suitable. He'd be painting a scribble. That's that's better than that's what that's what it is. That's better than Aaron Rodgers because he didn't beat anybody.

Michael Marcangelo:

Aaron Rodgers out this burger who would already want to?

Dave Clarke:

Yeah, but he's not as good as Peyton Manning. I'm close.

Michael Marcangelo:

But Peyton Manning only one one.

Dave Clarke:

Are we going to have a Peyton Manning versus Ben Rosberg argument? You really think Ben Roethlisberger is better than fucking Peyton Manning? Mike?

Joe Malkin:

Yeah, if we ever had that conversation, I'm ready. I'm ready. No, Ben Roethlisberger is will never be able to even hold the jock of Peyton Manning. Peyton Manning is a better quarterback Peyton Manning's quarterback is

Dave Clarke:

jack though. That's

Joe Malkin:

You know what?

Dave Clarke:

We're not getting can't do it. Or he won't let them but it's weird that he keeps falling around pain. Can I hold your jock? That's the strange thing.

Joe Malkin:

Now he's like, wait, don't don't you play for Pittsburgh. Why are you in Indianapolis? Like?

Unknown:

Yes, I'll

Michael Marcangelo:

false. I mean, I just think that that Roethlisberger was at that point in time was a no, it's fair. It's

Dave Clarke:

fair. I mean, honestly, obviously, I'm biased. They both accomplished essentially the same thing in the almost an identical way. I'm wrong. You're right,

Joe Malkin:

in almost an identical way, but one of them is a better human being than the other. So let's move on to a couple more of the questions that we have at hand here and let's move into the AFC because, you know I we mentioned the Buffalo Bills and how they're pretty much on the road to win the AFC East for the first time in 25 years. Yesterday we saw the Pittsburgh Steelers lose their second game in a row we're currently seeing it's halftime between the bills and the Ravens and that is a tie ballgame at 14 apiece. There are three weeks left after this week. If the Cleveland Browns win tonight. They are one game behind the previously undefeated Pittsburgh Steelers Are the Steelers still as good as we thought they were? And will the Cleveland Browns win the AFC North?

Dave Clarke:

No, they will not win the AFC North. It's the Cleveland Browns. Don't forget to Yeah, I mean, come on get I'm not making excuses for him. But the Steelers had so many key injuries at one position like all their linebackers. So I'm not bias. It's they first of all, they won 11 games, right? There were 11. And oh, were they 10 an hour 11. And now 11 and 11 or 11. And now they lose one, game two, which is a weird game too. Apparently a resurgent Washington football team, like they're playing Okay,

Joe Malkin:

they have this issue that that your team has, they can't figure

Dave Clarke:

out who the hell they're about. Sure. And, you know, it was an upset for sure. But like they play pretty well. You know, it wasn't like that Steelers went in there stumped the place up. We just talked about how the bills, you know, are winning games and like going and making stuff happen and, you know, momentum wise, it's not great for them. And I'm not biased. By the way. I'm not a Steelers fan.

Michael Marcangelo:

But you're living with you. Yeah. So sure.

Dave Clarke:

I want her to be happy. But

Joe Malkin:

the truth shall set you free do.

Michael Marcangelo:

So here's the thing. And I mean this because I think the Patriots experienced it, too. Was it last year two or two years ago. The Pittsburgh Steelers were never that good this year. And there's two

Unknown:

fair

Michael Marcangelo:

there is you can only beat the teams you play. That's true, but they had the second easiest schedule in terms of strength of schedules in the league coming into this year, only behind the Baltimore Ravens. Now, what happened again, this happens the Patriots too, there ain't no right and they went into the buzzsaw of the Baltimore Ravens that year and it completely threw away their season like they were never an eight no team they were never that good and

Dave Clarke:

same thing for the bears and five one

Michael Marcangelo:

Yeah, well I think Pittsburgh is a is a is a 12 win team which is really really good but they would never have 15 wins they would never gonna win 15 games in the regular season this year in my opinion, I just there there are a lot of flaws that they have and I think

Dave Clarke:

that one of their flaws their their quarterbacks kind of old and they are linebackers are including their best defensive player like that's you got to give you have to give some and and they're playing a ton of games because all there's all their games are getting screwed up because all the other all other teams are getting COVID The Ravens, right? Yeah, they're they're following their protocols. They're not their players aren't getting sick of COVID sure, um, okay, well, some people are gonna get it, but the entire ravens team got it, you know, and the Ravens didn't get punished for that the Steelers did by you know, them throwing that game up and around the monster primetime game because of it or two, maybe they play on Wednesday afternoon. And all their linebackers are hurt. I can't like I can't stress that enough.

Joe Malkin:

So but so but as much as much of a and I know that the teams are different. And the records are very different right now. But as much of a Steelers apologist as you're being right now. I mean, wouldn't you? Well, you

Unknown:

are.

Dave Clarke:

You're not being an apologist for the last two games.

Joe Malkin:

So but then, but then you get on us when we are turned into apologists for our team who had

Unknown:

lost eight games 777 games,

Dave Clarke:

the last two games and the thinking that thinking that a team that has lost two games is good is a lot different than thinking that a team that's

Michael Marcangelo:

just remember, Davey, you did say that the Washington football team is going to finish it like one in 11 or one and 15 this year, and they and they were the first team to be so

Dave Clarke:

your argument against my argument is you've been wrong in life. That's Yes, I've been wrong in my entire sports commentary life,

Michael Marcangelo:

bad the second easiest schedule this year. And they've lost the most recent

Unknown:

games, though. You know,

Joe Malkin:

they don't make you play the schedule, you play the schedule that you that you're handed right

Michael Marcangelo:

off, just get off the Steelers soapbox that you're off for just 10 seconds. And remember, there are 12 win team, which means they're gonna be a top two or three team to air see. You and I are agreeing.

Joe Malkin:

Just never That happens a lot. Can I just point out that that happens a lot. But then the six of us is that usually we're agreeing we're just saying in different ways. And then we start yelling at each other like we're doing right.

Dave Clarke:

I think usually we're agreeing is a stretch. But

Michael Marcangelo:

there are some times that we are agreeing when yelling at each other is that is the better way to phrase that.

Dave Clarke:

Like you're good man. I agree with you, but go fuck yourself. Okay,

Michael Marcangelo:

exactly. So the children are going to go 12 and four. I do think they're gonna lose two more games. I think that that is

Dave Clarke:

the remaining two. I mean, look up who the remaining teams

Michael Marcangelo:

their main schedule is Cincinnati, Indianapolis and Cleveland. I think Andy and Cleveland are losses for for the Steelers.

Joe Malkin:

I think they could be I think I think Cleveland is I mean, that's the last game of the season right for them. So I think that's where Cleveland can can clinch the division. I mean, I think that that's kind of coming down to B to being one of the most poetic games of the NFL season. Right there between the Steelers and the parents

Dave Clarke:

Las Vegas would you put your own hard earned money on the Cleveland Browns ever to do anything? Especially beat their division rival Pittsburgh Steelers Are you crazy? Would you like to make a bet with me right now about that I'll

Joe Malkin:

I like well I'll let you know I'll let you know after whatever happens with this game against the Ravens if I want to make a gun

Michael Marcangelo:

I mean yeah, I feel like I'm getting backed into a corner here to make a bet with with with the cane

Dave Clarke:

$20 bet me $20 I think I think the Browns against the Steelers I'll take the students bet me 20 bucks

Michael Marcangelo:

I take them right well,

Joe Malkin:

to win to wait hang on to win the division or to beat them on on general game night on like,

Dave Clarke:

Who's gonna win that game? Anyone who wants to work there is it

Michael Marcangelo:

it's at Cleveland? Oh,

Joe Malkin:

I'll take Cleveland on that.

Dave Clarke:

Okay, that both you Oh, it's just too rich

Unknown:

I find Mike

Joe Malkin:

Can you throw in 10

Dave Clarke:

I'll bet you 10 bucks each Okay great.

Joe Malkin:

All right, sorry units they're not dollars no betting well now if you just

Michael Marcangelo:

if you just want to look back and just look at the game this year the Steelers beat the Browns 32 seven at at at home and Pittsburgh but that's it that's a different Cleveland team at that point in time.

Dave Clarke:

They're going to send seven at what's his name Baker Mayfield is about to comp Brady Quinn because this is essentially the same

Michael Marcangelo:

I almost call it ash beat tonight.

Dave Clarke:

They're yeah they're gonna send seven Adam I'm not even watching tonight's game and so this

Michael Marcangelo:

but but but their best linebackers are gonna do they're gonna rush out him

Dave Clarke:

does seven guys doesn't matter seven NFL quality guys.

Joe Malkin:

Well, but so if there's seven NFL quality guys, why did they lose the last two games?

Dave Clarke:

Because they didn't have to play the Cleveland Browns job. Yeah, but it's the Cleveland Browns their division rival historically terrible. It's the Cleveland Browns against the Pittsburgh Steelers. It's division rival game you have to factor all the shit in it's a Darby. You know. You're so stuck in the Midwest with your with your thoughts on football. It's no I'm stuck in the fact that I've watched every single Pittsburgh Steelers game this year because my fiance's a Steelers fan and I've seen them win 11 games.

Michael Marcangelo:

So I have a question and those 11 like in the last this season, right? Haven't you noticed that Ben Roethlisberger is becoming more and more less and less mobile? And his receivers are

Joe Malkin:

totally never sneak with like they never see but they don't need to because his his wide receivers are

Dave Clarke:

incredible. No, that's not the Steelers problem. Still, his problem is they can't really run the ball. You know, the rumble or the receivers can't catch the ball. Or either. I mean, I think that happened last night. And that was bad.

Michael Marcangelo:

It was bad.

Dave Clarke:

There was a lot of drops. You can't really blame Robins burger for the drop. So you know, I don't.

Joe Malkin:

The Steelers receivers are so good, though. I mean, and they had a bad night last night. But they are a young group. And they talked about that this week. Like Juju has been in the league for five years. He's 24. Like,

Dave Clarke:

yeah, feels like he's been around forever.

Michael Marcangelo:

their worst receiver is 10 times better than our best New England. So yes, I agree. Oh, absolutely.

Craig D'Alessandro:

Mark Jackson. Lamar Jackson, by the way. It's a silly, silly sat line. And he and that team is still winning.

Dave Clarke:

That's it for my fantasy football hopes.

Joe Malkin:

Yeah, your fantasy football hopes over. I beat Mike and I know I said it last night. And I keep saying everybody did

Craig D'Alessandro:

that Bobby up to like 15 minutes ago. Sorry,

Joe Malkin:

guys. So just so you know, I mean, between Mike and Dave, you made some interesting fantasy football trades this year. And at the end of the day, Dave, if you lose, it really didn't work out for either one of you. Yeah,

Dave Clarke:

we did. blockbuster trades of our fantasy season. Neither of us made

Joe Malkin:

well, you would have if it were 16 Oh,

Dave Clarke:

maybe not. Actually. It looks like DraftKings magic. Metcalf is beating Roberts crazy team. I might squeak in gentlemen.

Joe Malkin:

You couldn't make this weekend. If you get that for spot. I'll see you next week. So a couple a couple of final questions as we we finish up the conversation here tonight. But we mentioned the browns and how tonight's game would be huge for the Browns after after the Pittsburgh loss which we would know that the the Browns would be a game behind the Steelers in the AFC North. The Chiefs the Chiefs just squeaked by

Dave Clarke:

are the Chiefs multiple chiefs a chef's you guys

Joe Malkin:

remember the Snickers sponsor that squeaked by the dolphins to hold the top spot in the AFC they also clinched the AFC West yesterday against Bobby's dolphins. I really got to ask to go back to the AFC East for just a moment. Mike. Can we can we get off? I mean, I really liked the dolphins coaching staff. But they're not that good. Well, I

Michael Marcangelo:

mean, two is not good yet. I think I still think he's better than than Ryan Fitzpatrick. I think he gives you a better chance to win. I don't think he's a leader. I think he's serviceable at this point in time. I think that that guy is a little injury prone to sort of been injured in his first year. But I think what you You can look at the dolphins and say is that they're so well coached and their team. I mean every player is just in the right spot. I mean, they played the Chiefs perfectly mahomes had what two interceptions going into this week and he threw three? I mean, that that's just because they're in the right spot so I actually think my sneaky heartache is at the dolphins are the best team and in this AFC East Division moving forward, I'm higher on to that I am on Josh Allen. He's just not great yet.

Dave Clarke:

I mean, Bobby has been Bobby's been banging the drama The dolphins all season with his power rankings he put them one underneath the Steelers which is absurd. I also

Michael Marcangelo:

want to take this time to say I gave Bobby a ton of shit this week but Steelers are last week to drop into like fifth or whatever they dropped to. He was right. He was right

Joe Malkin:

he will they

Dave Clarke:

are roughly the same as one another

Joe Malkin:

no because the dolphins are going to drop out of the five spot and the Steelers won't move much further down than the five spot and I mean they're still they're still 11 and two so we we tell you you're a homer because your fiance is a Pittsburgh fan but

Dave Clarke:

I'll say this it's tough that they lost the one seed I think that team like Pittsburgh really could use the one seed in the AFC for that bye week.

Michael Marcangelo:

The dolphins also the third hardest schedule in the league.

Joe Malkin:

pretending that didn't happen. They also have the rookie quarterback in Miami but they also we

Dave Clarke:

are we taking an official line here that we think that Miami Dolphins are good now.

Michael Marcangelo:

I think that they're I think that their eight wins are just as impressive as the the Steelers 11

Dave Clarke:

All right. That's it for me. So

Joe Malkin:

I don't I feel like I've been I feel like alright, Bobby's not here to defend themselves. So I'm not gonna go down that road. But I'll die on that hill.

Dave Clarke:

I fucking will. Yeah. Dave, I'm

Unknown:

back on your bag and

Dave Clarke:

complete ties fuck on that hill.

Joe Malkin:

I can't wait and going. Going back to the Steelers. You're absolutely right today, they would definitely benefit from that number one seed that first week by because it's kind of a similar situation to what the Patriots dealt with with an old Tom Brady towards the end of his time here, right? Where they have the old guy they need him to have two weeks of rest, or at least a week and a half just to recover to get ready for that and I really don't think they're going to because you know one thing and now it's turning into the bobby our The one thing that Bobby said about the chiefs and he said it really all season is that they're the best team in the NFL. But he had the Steelers there at the number one because they were undefeated. Watching that Steelers team play yesterday Even though mahomes threw three picks like that was a very well coached team. But again, Mike, what did I say about the Giants beating Seattle two weeks ago? What what is what did the giants and dolphins have in common and they're two very well played games in the past two weeks. Both head coaches are from the Bill Belichick tree. I really think there's communication that goes on there. No, I

Dave Clarke:

do. always comes back around to this. Well, sure about their hands full in every game. They've played this they also might

Michael Marcangelo:

have the worst coaching tree in the history of head injuries.

Joe Malkin:

I don't know that argument. Let's see what happens with Joe judge Brian Flores. But and everybody wants to put Mike rabl in his coaching tree and this is a completely different episode altogether. But mike mike Vrabel isn't in his coaching tree.

Unknown:

Where did they grow?

Michael Marcangelo:

I mean, he was coached by Bill bell.

Dave Clarke:

He started phase coaching, like it'd ever been said before right now. Definitely just started getting sent a second ago. It's a fairly, like, treated like phrase, but it's not the thing that people say. But yes, go on. Dave. Just put

Joe Malkin:

yourself in a glass of red wine and just start calling you Johnny red wine, forget DK sizzle. So anyway, we're done with The Giving Tree. And we're moving on to the end of the show. So basically, we're coming up on an hour and a half and I can see Greg dying slowly in the sides. So anyway, guys, do we have any any final words as we finish up our weekly show here to close out week 14 in the NFL season?

Michael Marcangelo:

For me what I would say is that it has something to do with week 14 the NFL season I would I would implore you if you had if you know one or r1 if a wrestling fan out there. Please go check out Episode Two of ci Pete we had a special guest on this past week. It was our own DJ sizzle day that we pull them out of the woodwork and man he brought it so we'll have that in the show notes. And also, I'm super excited to get back on Facebook, twitch live, whatever. We're going to be doing this this Sunday night like I'm ready for that live show. Dave anything else that?

Dave Clarke:

Yeah, I was gonna say that about cheapy though. So I had such a fun time on cheapy. And I know I keep saying that like over and over again. But I had so much fun doing it because I haven't thought about wrestling and so on until I started talking to Mike again. And the irony is I prepped the entire day to do that. That show thinking that Mike was going to come in and just try to wax me in that in like an argument about the WWF but he was very kind a lot Kinder in fact that he was even to me tonight about the NFL. So he was very kind he could have just wiped the floor with me with his wrestling knowledge but he just like he carried me like a boxer carry and like a worse opponent for the entire thing. And we had a lot of fun doing it. So please do listen. I I loved it.

Joe Malkin:

I think that was part of my attitude tonight where I was like, I'm I was kind of in a fog of the for at least the first like half of the show, because I really thought Mike was gonna come with like really hard at us about some stuff tonight. And I don't know why I think it's just what we think Mike is gonna do because he always yells at Craig about his microphone up in front of his face. Or he gets angry with Bobby but but guess what, Bobby's not here. So he might

Dave Clarke:

cheat mode. We might just been still been best friends after talking about wrestling. Yeah, like an hour and a half. So

Joe Malkin:

not a wrestling fan. But these guys do a great job over there on cheap pizzas, check out the first two episodes. They talked about the Montreal screwjob and Episode Two. It was a lot of fun. And you mentioned that Mike, we're gonna be back on Twitch this week on for our live show on Sunday, kind of our holiday extravaganza and we have two two interviews coming up this week that we're pretty excited for as well. So so I'm Joe Malkin joined by Dave Clark and Mike Mark Angelo this week. Thank you again to our EP Craig D'Alessandro, who always does so much work for us. We can't say enough about him. Again, I'm Joe Malkin. Thank you for joining us on missing the point. And we'll talk to you on Sunday for the live Sunday night sports wrap.

Craig D'Alessandro:

Thanks for listening to this episode of missing the point. missing the point is a one hour weekly podcast recapping the biggest stories in the world of sports with the New England flavor. The show notes and transcript from today's show can be found in the description box below, as well as on our website, www dot MTV show.com. If you're new to the show, and like we heard, please consider subscribing. It's the easiest way to see when we publish new episodes. We are on iTunes, Spotify, Google and wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to rate us leave a review of any of our shows. Let us know how we're doing. We always appreciate your feedback. Also, be sure to follow us on all of our social medias. All of our links will be in the show notes and check out our brand new website WWW dot MTV show.com that's MTP show.com. For all of us here at missing the point. I'm Craig D'Alessandro. We'll talk to you next time